Aliens, Pyramids, Carving and Ancient Technology

[Al_Fel]

49 minutes ago, JD™ said:

I read it. 

This bit stood out:

“It is hypothesized that this impact event brought about the extinction of many species of North American Pleistocene megafauna.^[1]These animals included camels, mammoths, the giant short-faced bear,”

We have evidence of all those species having existed. Why would we have that evidence, and not the evidence of the civilisation that had all this extra tech that just disappeared?

Maybe it is all there we just don't know how to use it? Those skulls are interesting to me. Another thought is maybe the civilisations that came after it all happened found these tools and re-purposed them? I agree there is a huge lack of evidence but then there's also a lack of evidence that the Egyptians built the pyramids. I don't see any Bronze tubes, I don't see any lifting equipment, I don't see any huge saws that could be used to cut though granite? All I see are basic tools that would fit in with the Egyptians having some ability to carve rocks and make certain things but not others. It really is a mystery and I've jumped in at the deep end and I'm all over the place following crazy paths. But what if one of them was right? If people just sat there and accepted what everyone else thinks then current theories wouldn't be challenged and new theories wouldn't be thought up.

39 minutes ago, aener said:

Another question that would raise for me is that there is no evidence of the civilization or tools they used - presumably they would have extremely durable materials for building etc... re-bar, cutters, whatever - but we do have examples of the stonework they produced.
I would have thought anything that can wipe every single trace of them off the face of the planet would be more than enough to destroy some bits of granite already made weaker by having been worked, and especially any of the ones from softer stone.

I actually find ancient aliens visiting, using their tech for whatever reason, and then withdrawing having never put down permanent roots leaving no trace of having been here more likely, thinking on it.

Note that this isn't me jumping on the bandwagon. I'm just promoting the discussion rather than the namecalling. I've argued on your side often enough, so I hope you can see this is a question/point of thought, not a slam.

You're thinking their advancement are the same as ours. I'm not suggesting that at all. Re-bar is used in concrete there's no such structures like that from ancient times. The impressive stuff is huge hard rocks.

Again you're looking at it as if it would happen to us now. I'm not saying that at all. Humans have now took over the planet and evidence of us is rife. I'm sure if something happened now then in a few thousand years there would still be plenty of evidence we were here. You've got to think that a huge extraterrestrial impact would change the entire eco system of the planet. Maybe they gathered what they could and hid underground? there might be a cave system somewhere full of lost ancient tech haha.

By you asking these questions it gives me more of an idea of what you think my ideas are. I'm definitely not explaining myself well enough. I'm trying my best but there's so much information to get out its hard to do.

33 minutes ago, JD™ said:

That’s a really interesting thought. 

I think it is definitely more believable for me that aliens came, graffitied the place, and left the remains for later civilisations to claim as their own.

In my defence there’s only been one bit of name calling, and that was only because a previous message had been called a dig when it was just as relevant as what I was replying to. Obviously the words “f**king nuts” are going to be the bit that’s focussed on 

I'm over it. You're obviously not the only one that thinks I'm "f**king nuts" I just think there's more to it and its worth discussing and not just saying its a load of conspiracy nonsense etc.

[aener]

4 minutes ago, Al_Fel said:

You're thinking their advancement are the same as ours. I'm not suggesting that at all. Re-bar is used in concrete there's no such structures like that from ancient times. The impressive stuff is huge hard rocks.

Again you're looking at it as if it would happen to us now. I'm not saying that at all. Humans have now took over the planet and evidence of us is rife. I'm sure if something happened now then in a few thousand years there would still be plenty of evidence we were here. You've got to think that a huge extraterrestrial impact would change the entire eco system of the planet. Maybe they gathered what they could and hid underground? there might be a cave system somewhere full of lost ancient tech haha.

By you asking these questions it gives me more of an idea of what you think my ideas are. I'm definitely not explaining myself well enough. I'm trying my best but there's so much information to get out its hard to do.

Re-bar was just an example.
All the tools used to make the stone stuff. To work stone as efficiently as that, they must be stronger than stone. Things like that.
And if they have access to materials like that, I find it very difficult to believe they wouldn't use it in their settlements and infrastructure.

If they gathered what they could in the face of a cataclysmic event, there would still be some bits left over. Maybe they all got blown out into the ocean
How would any life survive that? The advanced race might have gone underground, or left the planet altogether even because otherwise they surely would've come back out after it settled down, but what about the lemurs, and spiders, and hamsters and minnows? They didn't get nuclear bunkers.
The dinosaurs died off as part of a mass extinction event, but we find their bones all over the place. There must have been entire families of species that got wiped out in whatever even drove The Civilisation away, so where are all of their bones that suddenly stop appearing around 13k years ago?

 

 

I stumbled upon this the other day and thought it would float your boat.
They present an extremely one-sided discussion, but there's one absolutely concrete, unavoidable issue. These temples were 100% cut from bedrock and hundreds of thousands of tonnes of waste material had to be removed, but there's no sign of it anywhere in the vicinity. Putting aside all other questions raised about it - what the f**k?! That's either an absolute mindf**k, or they transported many pyramids worth of waste material for many, many miles, just so it wouldn't be near their temples.

 

Quite a lot of videos are popping up about things in India recently. One of particular likely interest to you is enormous stone temple columns that look extremely suspiciously like they were cut on a lathe.
Seems strange that other things get so focused on, and others ignored. If anything, this in the video is Petra on 'roids, but Petra is way more famous in the west. (Not bashing on Petra - totally worth it's salt.)

I've known about it for a long time so it doesn't have the same kapow for me right now, but Angkor, too. The Wat was only one part of it. Totally crazy stuff, though less unexplainable than some of the other places.

[Al_Fel]

I see where you are coming from. I'm imagining there wasn't that many of them about. I'm taking a few thousand maybe? I really don't have the answers. Maybe these elongated skull people are them and there's plenty of them about but people wont look into it because they might be seen as crazies?

You're assuming you need something harder than granite to cut granite? Maybe they had a method of making the granite softer so it could be worked with virtually any tool or even a particular material. There might be some kind of frequency that makes this happen. If you look at the scoop marks at the quarries in Egypt you can see similar scoop marks in Peru and it looks like the stones have been softened and squashed together. This could very well be a totally plausible process that we just don't know or understand right now. The Romans had their own concrete that gets harder over time that we didn't understand until recently maybe its a similar situation to that? What if these elongated skull people have a different brain to us humans that can see things we can't? for instance different frequencies of light or magnetism or another some kind of thing that exists that we just don't know about. I know i'm really going out there with all this and there's no evidence to say otherwise but that's part of the fun of it for me. Please take it easy on me people I'm just trying to promote the discussion.

I'll give that video a watch. Removing material to create stone structures at the source is found in Peru and Egypt.

I shared the videos of the huge columns in the original thread and I was told it could have all been done with a hammer and chisel. Plus it's all in soap stone which is a very soft stone.

 

There it is. I look at that and I see a giant lathe. To suggest it was all done by hand doesn't make any sense to me. There's also sculptures of tiny skulls on there too that blow me away.

[Brian Bleech]

Dude, have you ever thought that the guys that promote these theories are just con-men out to make money?

https://badarchaeology.wordpress.com/2014/02/15/the-paracas-skulls-aliens-an-unknown-hominid-species-or-cranial-deformation/

Plus skull modification has been around for ages, it isn't really a mystery - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_cranial_deformation

 

 

[Al_Fel]

Capricorn ???>

Sagittarius ???>

Scorpio ???>

Libra ???>

Virgo ???>

Leo the Lion: Could that be the sphinx?>

Cancer ???>

Gemini ???>

Taurus: the bull: as depicted in India and a holy animal >

Aries: the goat: Jew's are linked to this with the Rams horn >

Pisces: the fish: Jesus is said to be a fisherman >

Aquarius the water bearer: (bit of a leap here) Global warming causing the sea levels to rise..

 

Is all that a coincidence? or are these cultures influenced by the star signs? Anyone else feel free to fill in any blanks if you can think of anything? I'm just having a bit of a thought here.

I don't know enough about the procession of the equinoxes but I do know it's a lot of calculations to work it all out. This is something that's been around for 1000's of years.

Edited August 15, 2019 by Al_Fel
Thought I'd add a bit more to this.

[Al_Fel]

15 minutes ago, Brian Bleech said:

Dude, have you ever thought that the guys that promote these theories are just con-men out to make money?

https://badarchaeology.wordpress.com/2014/02/15/the-paracas-skulls-aliens-an-unknown-hominid-species-or-cranial-deformation/

Plus skull modification has been around for ages, it isn't really a mystery - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_cranial_deformation

 

 

OK let's say they are all lying. I don't see anyone else sharing these amazing structures from around the world or questioning the current theories. I don't blame them for wanting to make money. We live in a society of e-begging now. People want your clicks I understand that.

[Brian Bleech]

1 hour ago, Al_Fel said:

OK let's say they are all lying. I don't see anyone else sharing these amazing structures from around the world or questioning the current theories. I don't blame them for wanting to make money. We live in a society of e-begging now. People want your clicks I understand that.

I get that people have to make money, but there is difference between dedicating your life to something and getting paid and peddling pseudoscience/archaeology to make a quick buck selling books or getting clicks. But most discoveries are actually pretty dull to the general public. Let's be honest a youtube video on discovering the Egyptians knew how to make cheese (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-45233347) isn't go to get as many views as one on ancient alien technology, despite there only being actual evidence for one of them.  

Archaeology is bloody slow, there are plenty of new discoveries that challenge existing theories, but we tend not to get massive earth-shattering discoveries. They are just small things that move the needle a bit.

Here are a few from 2018 - https://www.history.com/news/discoveries-2018-archaeology-science-finds including an 4500 yr old Egyptian ramp technology  - https://www.history.com/news/ancient-egypt-pyramid-ramp-discovery

Here is a great site to track new discoveries - https://www.sciencedaily.com/news/fossils_ruins/ancient_civilizations/ 

Honestly I think it is great that you are curious and interested the ancient world, it doesn't get as much coverage to the general public as I would like it too. The history of these places are utterly fascinating and there are a lot of genuine mysteries.

I would recommend that give something like Our Fake History a try, it is a fantastic listen and I think you would get a lot out of it. Hosted by a guy that is curious about history and different theories, who comes at things with an open mind. The Atlantis episode is great -   https://ourfakehistory.com/index.php/season-2/episode-38-was-there-a-real-atlantis-part-i/

[Al_Fel]

39 minutes ago, Brian Bleech said:

I get that people have to make money, but there is difference between dedicating your life to something and getting paid and peddling pseudoscience/archaeology to make a quick buck selling books or getting clicks. But most discoveries are actually pretty dull to the general public. Let's be honest a youtube video on discovering the Egyptians knew how to make cheese (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-45233347) isn't go to get as many views as one on ancient alien technology, despite there only being actual evidence for one of them.  

Archaeology is bloody slow, there are plenty of new discoveries that challenge existing theories, but we tend not to get massive earth-shattering discoveries. They are just small things that move the needle a bit.

Here are a few from 2018 - https://www.history.com/news/discoveries-2018-archaeology-science-finds including an 4500 yr old Egyptian ramp technology  - https://www.history.com/news/ancient-egypt-pyramid-ramp-discovery

Here is a great site to track new discoveries - https://www.sciencedaily.com/news/fossils_ruins/ancient_civilizations/ 

Honestly I think it is great that you are curious and interested the ancient world, it doesn't get as much coverage to the general public as I would like it too. The history of these places are utterly fascinating and there are a lot of genuine mysteries.

I would recommend that give something like Our Fake History a try, it is a fantastic listen and I think you would get a lot out of it. Hosted by a guy that is curious about history and different theories, who comes at things with an open mind. The Atlantis episode is great -   https://ourfakehistory.com/index.php/season-2/episode-38-was-there-a-real-atlantis-part-i/

Thanks for that! It's very interesting. That cheese was nuts haha. There's so much to still be discovered. I wish more people would put resources into learning more about our past.

A few quotes from the ramp they found in Egypt:

“It’s a stretch to take an alabaster quarry and say this is how the pyramids were built, because the pyramids weren’t built out of alabaster,” she says. “The way that the ancient Egyptians cut and moved stone is still very mysterious.”

“We actually don’t know [their] mechanism of cutting hard stones like red granite,” she says. “And we still don’t know how the ancient Egyptians lifted blocks weighing hundreds of tons up the sides of the pyramids.”

It really is still all a mystery. I know I get crazy but I'm a fairly logical and reasonable person (So I believe) It really does get to me when people just dismiss anything that isn't really plausible and chalk it down to just hard work and being a slave. Fair enough some of the theories I've suggested are out there I understand that. But to just ignore everything and accept the first answer is crazy to me.

I'll give that podcast about Atlantis a listen. If you want to watch a crazy YouTube video on Atlantis then I'd say try this one out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5kEzxOb-3c&t=5s As you'd expect there's outlandish claims with virtually no evidence but at the same time I believe there's some good points being made.

 

[Al_Fel]

This guy gets off to slow start but things do pick up. The more I look into ancient times the more I'm blown away.

[Al_Fel]

Right 500 years ago isn't that long ago really. I know there are windmills/water mills and stuff like that with complex mechanisms that used huge stones to grind flower. Not sure how old the windmills or water mills are but that could explain the rocks.

I got a bit over excited with this one. I think his explanation is just him getting a bit too excited too.

Anyway those 10 ton doors really are something! 5:30 in things get a bit more interesting.

[Al_Fel]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brihadisvara_Temple,_Thanjavur

There's a 25 ton dome and 80 ton granite block at the top of this tower. "Built by Tamil king Raja Raja Chola I between 1003 and 1010 AD"

This kind of thing takes the shine off the Pyramids.

If these feats were achieved so recently why is there no mention of how they did it? I googled it and I can't find a crane big enough to lift a 25 ton block at all never mind an 80 ton block 60 meters high. If anyone could show me a modern method of getting an 80 ton block up that high I'd appreciate it.

Let's say they used a ramp. That ramp would be one hell of a construction.

Anyone got anything to say about this? Bloody India seems to be another can of worms. These crazy feats of megalithic building really are all over the world.

[forteh]

https://www.liebherr.com/en/gbr/products/mobile-and-crawler-cranes/mobile-cranes/ltm-mobile-cranes/details/ltm1120091.html

188m high, 1200 tonne load capacity enough?

Edited August 16, 2019 by forteh

[Al_Fel]

45 minutes ago, forteh said:

https://www.liebherr.com/en/gbr/products/mobile-and-crawler-cranes/mobile-cranes/ltm-mobile-cranes/details/ltm1120091.html

188m high, 1200 tonne load capacity enough?

Wow I am stupid. I googled it and saw 20,000 tons as the world record for a lift. I read it as 20tons because I'm stupid. So yeah hahaha what a fool.

[manuel]

On 15/08/2019 at 8:19 PM, Al_Fel said:

I'm a fairly logical and reasonable person (So I believe) It really does get to me when people just dismiss anything that isn't really plausible and chalk it down to just hard work and being a slave. Fair enough some of the theories I've suggested are out there I understand that. But to just ignore everything and accept the first answer is crazy to me.

 

Lol. So you just dismissed all current theories and evidence, then reasonably decided that an ancient civilisation or aliens were responsible for the pyramids even though there is not a shred of evidence to support that crackpot idea.

[Al_Fel]

3 hours ago, manuel said:

Lol. So you just dismissed all current theories and evidence, then reasonably decided that an ancient civilisation or aliens were responsible for the pyramids even though there is not a shred of evidence to support that crackpot idea.

When you put it that way I can see where you are coming from. I've got lost in the mystery and I've bought into the crazy theories that are going round. Fair enough. You say there isn't a shred of evidence but surely these mysterious structures all over the planet made with methods relatively unknown are some kind of evidence?

A lot of the current theories don't seem to be based on solid evidence as far as I can tell. By that I mean the current theories jump to conclusions about the tools they must have used. For instance the cutting and drilling of huge granite stones. There's no evidence of any of these tools capable of doing such feats. By that I'm talking about large saw blades and core drill bits. So the best they can say is they had bronze chisels, ramps, rope and sleds so that's how they did it.

As has been shown it is possible to work with hard stones such as granite with these primitive tools I totally agree on that. I personally don't think the time it would take to make all these objects in such a manner is realistic. You have the argument that they had nothing better to do and they were all slaves to the will of a King/God. Again this is my personal opinion but I don't think that was the case. I think they had other methods of working with the stone that we just don't know about now or understand. I'm not claiming magic abilities I'm talking about stuff that's been lost in history.

I'm pretty sure we can all agree that the pyramids etc are amazing structures and there is a mystery about them. There is no solid evidence on how they were built so its all just a best guess scenario. I think its fair to say that these megalithic structures are world wide and some share very similar features. Also the methods used to build them seem to have been lost in history.

What I see when I see the crazy people videos on YouTube are massive megalithic structures sometimes in ruin with much lesser work built on top. Then you see sites of mass destruction with stone work destroyed and recycled by other cultures after.

If you take drill core number 7 and look at the spiral cut the one thing you have to agree is that whatever made the groves on the core did it in a continuous motion. Whatever method that was is different to using a bow and back and forth motion which is what is believed to be the method of cutting core holes. Let's say it was just crank on the top and someone was cranking it round with their hand, there's no evidence of them using methods or tools like that. So as simple as that is I'd still say it was a lost technology.

I think most people probably think my idea on all this is that they had anti gravity platforms and lasers and all crazy Alien (to us) tech. I really don't! I think it was all done with relatively simple technology or methods that we just don't know about today. I've used the word advanced technology and that probably throws people off. The example of the Roman Concrete is a good one. We have concrete now but their concrete was better than ours is today.

I'm probably contradicting myself with what I've just said but I think its a very interesting subject and I'm enjoying learning more about it.

[manuel]

I’m not sure the spiral definitely suggests that from the discussions I have read.

[Al_Fel]

18 hours ago, manuel said:

I’m not sure the spiral definitely suggests that from the discussions I have read.

Ok that's your opinion. Care to explain how a spiral groove could occur on the core?

Also this is aimed at forteh because he is a clever bastards and knows a lot about engineering.

How would you say they drilled these holes in the corners?

If you look at the right hand side of the picture it looks like a small lip on the inside corner. Could that be from some kind of machine mark or even some kind of jig that's been used?

2:34 on the video you see a line about a foot down from the top going from left to right. Surely you wouldn't see something like that with chisels?

I'm not being funny I'm just curious what your take on how they did it would be.

[manuel]

Ok so you are holding on pretty tight to to the spiral. However, we know that a single turn of the basic tools they had is not going to go through anywhere near enough granite to make the grove in the way you think it’s been made. How many cores show this groove pattern? Is it just this one? If it was all of them I can’t imagine the conspiracy theorists wouldn’t have made a bigger deal of it...

So what are the alternatives? 

Crazy tools - no evidence.

Something else - lots of options.

 

[forteh]

Spiral I reckon is from withdrawing a jammed tool, something bound onto the cutting edge of the drill (diamond) and created the spiral whilst withdrawing it; you could possibly achieve that feed rate cutting into plasterciene or butter
As raised above, there doesn't seem to be an abundance of spiral grooved cores so I suspect it to be an anomaly that can be jumped on to try to cast doubt.

Holes drilling into the tangent corners could be tube drills driven by a short crank, progress would be slower due to reduced possible torque that can be applied but still feasible.  The grinding/wearing action of the tube drills wouldn't require high torque compared to cutting the stone (as a modern tip tool does in metals), just a consistent motion.

Edited August 19, 2019 by forteh

[Al_Fel]

11 hours ago, manuel said:

Ok so you are holding on pretty tight to to the spiral. However, we know that a single turn of the basic tools they had is not going to go through anywhere near enough granite to make the grove in the way you think it’s been made. How many cores show this groove pattern? Is it just this one? If it was all of them I can’t imagine the conspiracy theorists wouldn’t have made a bigger deal of it...

So what are the alternatives? 

Crazy tools - no evidence.

Something else - lots of options.

 

How many cores like this exist? I'd Imagine not that many because they were the waste material. How many of them are available for testing? Most people seem to think it's impossible and wont entertain the possibility so its not worth the time/effort/money in doing any testing.

Where's the evidence of the Egyptians having tools capable of drilling these core holes? There's been plenty of tools found but none of them seem to be able to produce a core hole?

9 hours ago, forteh said:

Spiral I reckon is from withdrawing a jammed tool, something bound onto the cutting edge of the drill (diamond) and created the spiral whilst withdrawing it; you could possibly achieve that feed rate cutting into plasterciene or butter
As raised above, there doesn't seem to be an abundance of spiral grooved cores so I suspect it to be an anomaly that can be jumped on to try to cast doubt.

Holes drilling into the tangent corners could be tube drills driven by a short crank, progress would be slower due to reduced possible torque that can be applied but still feasible.  The grinding/wearing action of the tube drills wouldn't require high torque compared to cutting the stone (as a modern tip tool does in metals), just a consistent motion.

If the spiral was made from withdrawing a jammed tool then they removed it one direction, in a consistent and continuous motion.

I personally have drilled core holes into brick before and when it gets stuck the core snaps and the only real way I personally have found to get it out is to wiggle it. Totally different tools, methods and material I know but I'm just sharing my experience.

That's impressive and accurate.

[manuel]

Well the video you linked suggests many, even the spiral core is named number 7 so I guess we can say at least seven! One out of seven is not a great ratio if the others do not exhibit these markings...

Evidence they had tools capable of drilling holes ? They had copper, they did make tools out of it - and that bloke proved it was possible with some effort and sand to drill a hole in a granite block. Not as huge a leap as mysterious tools capable of mashing through stone at a redonculous rate.

[Al_Fel]

2 hours ago, manuel said:

Well the video you linked suggests many, even the spiral core is named number 7 so I guess we can say at least seven! One out of seven is not a great ratio if the others do not exhibit these markings...

Evidence they had tools capable of drilling holes ? They had copper, they did make tools out of it - and that bloke proved it was possible with some effort and sand to drill a hole in a granite block. Not as huge a leap as mysterious tools capable of mashing through stone at a redonculous rate.

It's not the 7th core its the 7th item from the list in the book. Nearly all the core holes seem to show similar markings but the question is are they in a spiral like core number 7?

Here are some examples

It's hard to tell from a picture but the lines looks pretty consistent to me.

I agree its not a huge leap to assume they used what they had to make the core holes. It's still however an assumption of how they did it rather than a proven method.

There seems to be a lot of core holes about but no tools capable of making them. Therefore ALIENS! (I am joking)

[Al_Fel]

https://www.countypress.co.uk/news/17855124.39-39-s-rewriting-history-books-39----major-archaeological-find-discovered-off-isle-wight-coast/

I'm not using this as evidence of ancient tech. It's just a little reminder of how little we know for sure. New discoveries (1987) are still waiting to be found!

[manuel]

It seems to me incredibly unlikely to find an intact copper tool, a core drill would have worn down and been recycled, and with metal a pretty precious material I don’t imagine them bunging old ones in a cupboard and forgetting about them! I seem to remember reading that finding even a small copper saw was incredibly rare.

[Al_Fel]

3 hours ago, manuel said:

It seems to me incredibly unlikely to find an intact copper tool, a core drill would have worn down and been recycled, and with metal a pretty precious material I don’t imagine them bunging old ones in a cupboard and forgetting about them! I seem to remember reading that finding even a small copper saw was incredibly rare.

But you seem to think that we should be finding all sorts of lost ancient tech if it existed? Surely tools from 12,000+ years on sites that were occupied by other cultures would be rarer and harder to find than stuff from 6,000 years ago?

Am I being unreasonable here?

Also if a core drill wears down then surely you couldn't cut to the maximum depth?

That core is probably 5 inches long and its intact so my guess would be that the tool that cut it would have to be at least 5 inches long. You couldn't really make the argument that they use a smaller core and just keep snapping it off in my opinion. What ever method that was used seems to me to cut consistently and deep

We are talking about 1,000's of years ago so obviously its not easy to find things. Plus you've got to add into the equation that the Romans turned Egypt over and who know's what they took?

I'm not arguing against your point I agree with you. These core holes seem to be quite common to me so I'd expect there to be the odd tool found if it was the Dynastic Egyptians that cored them out.