Alias 20.1

[crunch]

Does anyone know how the alias 20.1 compares in feel to an older style 20” mod, like a monty 221 x lite or similar? 

I used to ride mods for years. I didn’t ride trials for about 10 years and recently got a inspired Skye team but I really don’t like how it feels. I’m thinking the alias may feel better for me. I want something that is more ridable than the new style competition mod bikes so I can get to the skate park or whatever around town. 

 

Who makes the alias frames? 

How much difference will it make having a 20” rear wheel versus the fat tyre 19”? 

This is what I used to ride and loved it. 

[aener]

The main difference will be chainstay length.

Probably slightly higher BB, a little shorter reach and a steeper head-angle, but the chainstays are significantly shorter than older mods.
Also worth bearing in mind you can run a 19" wheel in there with no issues whatsoever, so you needn't worry about the change because you don't need to undergo it

They're pretty fun in skateparks - certainly no BMX but a lot comfier there than an X-Lite! Not great for getting around town though, as with any trials bike.

They build up into really versatile bikes. Unlikely to give you the "leading edge" in any one discipline, but they're as happy riding street as on rocks or in a skatepark.
A bit too twitchy to be super stable but twitchy enough to feel like you have administrative access to your own riding, a bit too long for full BMX/DJ feeling but long enough to give you the space for tech riding, a bit short to have the room for massive comp style moves but short enough to manual and spin and throw around easily.
Really flicky and nimble, but that can sometimes be a nuisance - particularly when not used to it.

They're a compromise, through and through, but I can't really think of anything they're actually bad at. Bar and stem choice will be an enormous influence. 165mm x 35° with Trialtech Hi Risers angled roughly perpendicular to the floor with 30mm of stackers gives me (1.72m) the above feel.

They're made with longevity in mind - I don't think any have actually cracked - which is great, but there's the obvious weight penalty. It's not enormous, especially as it's adding weight in the middle rather than the front or back, but it's definitely there.

Edited April 3, 2019 by aener

[Ross McArthur]

2 hours ago, aener said:

enough to feel like you have administrative access to your own riding

[Mark W]

Those old Montys used to feel quite compact/under you due to how short they were which is broadly similar to the Alias.  From memory the old Montys were around 1000mm or a bit under, and that was with some long-ish chainstays on them, and a relatively slack head angle, so the reach of the frame wasn't particularly long.  The 20.1 is fundamentally quite a different frame so don't expect to ride one and have it feel like an old Monty.  That isn't necessarily the end of the world though - people quite often look back on old bikes with a bit of rose tinted glasses, and you may find that what was 'good' back then just feels dated now.  I had really fond memories of riding various older 20" Onzas with 362mm stays, a +50~mm BB and around a 1020mm wheelbase and thought that was The Geo, but then rode one a frame with similar geometry more recently and it felt really sluggish and slow.

I've ridden Flipp's bike a few times and the 20.1 is really, really nice.  His bike has always felt the most direct or capable out of any bike I've ridden - it's hard to really describe it properly, but it's almost like the feeling you get when you use a really nicely made, well-designed tool for it's specific job.  If they'd existed before I got so settled on 24" there's a good chance I would have stuck with one of them. 

Compared to your Skye it'll feel like you can make it do what you want it to do much more easily, and the manoeuvrability of it will be much, much better.  Part of that will just be the smaller wheels, but the main part is the geo.  The super short rear end, steep-ish front end and the overall compact nature of it mean you've just got that much more advantage over it, so rather than having to work around a 24" like the Skye, you can make it do your bidding a bit more. 

As Flipp said they're not the lightest frame out there, but I don't think anyone has managed to break one, and crucially the geo means they "ride light".  It's similar to how the Arcade is one of the heaviest 24" bikes out there, but when you ride it it's not especially noticeable because of the geo. 

[crunch]

Ok thanks for the pointers. 

I know it won’t be great for riding around town, but from age 8 to about 25 I rode everywhere on a mod trials bike without issue to get to riding spots. 5-10 miles was nothing on my monty  lol  

 

So as long as I can get to somewhere across town it’ll be fine. I’ve got other bikes to go for actual rides! I just know the new comp mods are barely ridable full stop. 

I find the Skye so lumpy feeling and it’s basically impossible for me to do even simple things like suck up the back end when wheelie hopping up a wall or something. It just feels stuck to the ground. 

I thought the Skye would be good as a kind of do all fun bike, good enough to ride for 10 minutes across town but still fun at the park or playing on rocks or whatever. But right now I’ll take a slightly less ridable 20” for the fun factor when actually doing trials. 

Who makes the alias frame? What’s the new 20.2 like compared to the 20.1? 

 

 

Edited April 3, 2019 by crunch

[Mark W]

The 20.2 is due out pretty soon so there isn't much info about it yet.  I'd imagine it's going to be similar to the 20.1 though - they pretty much nailed it with that so I doubt they'll try and re-invent the wheel.

I believe their frames are made in the same place as the Inspired Arcades, so you don't really need to worry about build quality or anything like that  

[crunch]

12 hours ago, Mark W said:

The 20.2 is due out pretty soon so there isn't much info about it yet.  I'd imagine it's going to be similar to the 20.1 though - they pretty much nailed it with that so I doubt they'll try and re-invent the wheel.

I believe their frames are made in the same place as the Inspired Arcades, so you don't really need to worry about build quality or anything like that  

I thought it looked like an arcade. 

 

How does the 20” wheel compare to the 19” do you think?

[Herbertlemon102]

4 hours ago, crunch said:

I thought it looked like an arcade. 

 

How does the 20” wheel compare to the 19” do you think?

from experience, the main thing you notice is the rolling resistance. it carries speed into things a lot better.

[Mark W]

Incidentally, the new frames are out.  

Same geo as before, just a new colour and 135mm hub spacing so you can slip a Pro 4 in there nice and easy.

[crunch]

3 hours ago, Mark W said:

Incidentally, the new frames are out.  

Same geo as before, just a new colour and 135mm hub spacing so you can slip a Pro 4 in there nice and easy.

Well that changes things a little! 

I guess I’ll be deleting my shopping cart and starting again with new hubs and cranks. That was the only thing I wished it could do was take a hope hub.

Now the question is what to do about gearing. I was going to go front freewheel 18t + 12t rear for standard mod gearing. 

Im thinking I’d probably use the inspired/sram cranks now. 

So I guess 22/15 or maybe 22/14. 

 

Ill be be happy to run rear freewheel. I certainly don’t miss having my trousers eaten by mod chains. Lol. 

Edited April 8, 2019 by crunch

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

I can see brakeless being a perfect place for an I9 Hydra if it will cope with the forces... Lovely colour

[Mark W]

On 08/04/2019 at 2:51 PM, crunch said:

Im thinking I’d probably use the inspired/sram cranks now. 

So I guess 22/15 or maybe 22/14.

I'm not sure there's clearance on the frame for a 22t chainring on there, although I couldn't say for sure.  They're built around an 18t setup though so the different positioning and size of a chainring wasn't really taken into consideration most likely.

You could run a similar setup to Flipp and try the Sport Lite Splined crankset with an 18t splined sprocket, then just run a 12t sprocket on the Hope?  Possibly not quite as baller as the SRAM crankset, and possibly a little heavier, but you definitely won't encounter any clearance issues with it.

[crunch]

59 minutes ago, Mark W said:

I'm not sure there's clearance on the frame for a 22t chainring on there, although I couldn't say for sure.  They're built around an 18t setup though so the different positioning and size of a chainring wasn't really taken into consideration most likely.

You could run a similar setup to Flipp and try the Sport Lite Splined crankset with an 18t splined sprocket, then just run a 12t sprocket on the Hope?  Possibly not quite as baller as the SRAM crankset, and possibly a little heavier, but you definitely won't encounter any clearance issues with it.

Hmm. I hadn’t thought of that. 

 

There seems to be a fair amount of clearance space. I’ve only ordered half the build so far so I’ll confirm with Tarty before the rest arrives in stock. 

[Mark W]

Fair enough

For gearing, I'd probably lean more towards 22:15, although that's slightly personal preference.  I ran 22:14 with 175mm cranks on a mod years and years ago and it feels fairly heavy.  For getting speed up it was nice, but I found I had to use a slightly different technique for gaps compared to my technique with a 'normal' gear as you don't quite get that same snap out of it.  You have to really load it up and push through.  It's hard to explain, but basically it muted the trials ability of my bike a bit.  There is the chance that 22:15 would on the other hand feel a touch on the light side, but I think it would probably be better than being too heavy from my experience.  I was stuck between 22:15 and 22:16 on my Arcade, but I've kept with 22:16 because even though it feels a little lighter than I would ideally have it enables my trials moves more than the 22:15 does.

[crunch]

On 10/04/2019 at 3:53 AM, Mark W said:

Fair enough

For gearing, I'd probably lean more towards 22:15, although that's slightly personal preference.  I ran 22:14 with 175mm cranks on a mod years and years ago and it feels fairly heavy.  For getting speed up it was nice, but I found I had to use a slightly different technique for gaps compared to my technique with a 'normal' gear as you don't quite get that same snap out of it.  You have to really load it up and push through.  It's hard to explain, but basically it muted the trials ability of my bike a bit.  There is the chance that 22:15 would on the other hand feel a touch on the light side, but I think it would probably be better than being too heavy from my experience.  I was stuck between 22:15 and 22:16 on my Arcade, but I've kept with 22:16 because even though it feels a little lighter than I would ideally have it enables my trials moves more than the 22:15 does.

So it turns out the 22t sprocket fits fine. But the crank arms hit the chain stays. So I’m going with a threaded crank and a screw on sprocket up front. 

 

The alias 20.2 frames are now in stock. Looks like my build should ship out from tarty on Monday. Then I’ll have a furious session of wheelbuilding and then the fun begins. 

[onzatpro09]

On 09/04/2019 at 7:23 PM, Mark W said:

You could run a similar setup to Flipp and try the Sport Lite Splined crankset with an 18t splined sprocket, then just run a 12t sprocket on the Hope? 

@aener What is your exact setup dude? I've got some TT splined cranks and would like to put a fixed sprocket on the front and Hope hub rear. I was looking at sprockets but was unsure what would work spacing-wise.

[aener]

10 hours ago, onzatpro09 said:

@aener What is your exact setup dude? I've got some TT splined cranks and would like to put a fixed sprocket on the front and Hope hub rear. I was looking at sprockets but was unsure what would work spacing-wise.

20.2
Trialtech: Sport Lite Splined Cranks, Sport Lite BB, 18t splined sprocket
Hope: Pro4
Gusset: DoubleSix 12t sprocket

 

Things could get a bit tight spacing-wise on the 20.1, but because they push out wider the chain clearance on chain/seatstays isn't so much an issue.
I've never run a two-piece crankset so have never encountered the crank spacing issue, but in terms of chain clearance I could've put the sprocket almost anywhere on the driveshell and it would still clear.
Rear sprocket is currently just slightly on the dropout side of central on the splines.

[Swoofty]

I ran a FFW on my Alias 20.1, but I'd definitely recommend an 18 or less up front for bash purposes. With a 22 up front, with or without a bash, it throws off your centering when you're on an obstacle on the bash/ring. I also was running 165 crank arms for the added clearance to ground, but I imagine now with a 135 rear end the clearance on the chainstay is more of an issue for longer arms. Super fun bike once you get it set up right. 

[crunch]

15 minutes ago, Swoofty said:

I ran a FFW on my Alias 20.1, but I'd definitely recommend an 18 or less up front for bash purposes. With a 22 up front, with or without a bash, it throws off your centering when you're on an obstacle on the bash/ring. I also was running 165 crank arms for the added clearance to ground, but I imagine now with a 135 rear end the clearance on the chainstay is more of an issue for longer arms. Super fun bike once you get it set up right. 

I’ve ordered a screw on 18t front sprocket onto the trialtech sl forged cranks. I went for 165mm too. So im sure it’ll all play nicely with the hope hub set up. I’ll post pics when I get it built!

[Mark W]

The clearance would still be fine for 175mm cranks if you've got a normal trials ISIS BB (i.e. 128mm~ spindle length). 

[crunch]

Build in progress. Just got to build the wheels tonight and then decide how short I want to cut the steerer tube. 

[crunch]

Pretty much done. Just got to fiddle around with the brakes and get them fine tuned and then shorten the hoses. And cut the steerer tube. 

And of course it just started pissing rain for the first time in about 8 months.