Balance, backwheel hops and bunnhop tips?

[iron_panda]

Hey guys. Been learning since around August last year and spend a few hours most weekends out on the bike. Albeit it's not much time to really practice but I am slowly seeing improvements. But I'm struggling with general balance, back wheel hops and bunnyhops and I (think) I know exactly where I'm going wrong:

General balance - My trackstand is ok, not great but good enough I think but I always seem to fall over to the left, not entirely sure why. Could it be posture?

Back Wheel hops - I can get onto my back wheel from a trackstand but I have to really throw my weight back. I know this is what you're meant to do but it feels like it's just too much. So I was wondering if anyone else has had this and if it's just a learning curve? Also with the hops and balance. Because I throw my weight back 'quite a lot' I get about 2 bakwards hops before I come off and put my left foot down (leaning to the left again).

Bunnyhops - My weight is too far over the handlebars and I'm just pulling up on the handlebars. Again, I know this isn't the way but because of the points above, I'm a bit hesitant to really throw my weight back whilst moving.

I have two spacers under my stem, have a 3rd one but haven't got a long enough bolt to add it. Was thinking about getting riser handlebars too just to get my weight a bit towards he back.

Just wondered if anyone has any tips and tricks? Or is it simply a case of practice makes perfect?

I have an Onza Zoot 2011 if anyone needs/wants to know.

Thanks in advance for any help!

[Herbertlemon102]

practice makes perfect. adjusting the front end wont do much- especially if youre just learning. i think a really good thing to learn is falling off backwards- so leaning to far back on back hops and jumping off and the same with when youre rolling- leaning too far back and jumping off. itll give you confidence to throw your weight around more on the bike. just keep at it, it all takes time.  

[jeff costello]

13 minutes ago, iron_panda said:

 have two spacers under my stem, have a 3rd one but haven't got a long enough bolt to add it.

not an answer to your question, but this sounds weird to me. the amount of spacers is only determined by steerer tube length (your bar height preference only influences whether you add the stackers on top of the stem or beneath). it should not have anything to do with bolt length. the top of the steerer tube should never be further down than the top screw of the stem.

here's a tutorial with pics how it should look like (in this case it's the same with trials bikes): https://m.pinkbike.com/news/Tech-Tuesday-Steerer-tube-length-2012.html

[iron_panda]

17 hours ago, Herbertlemon102 said:

practice makes perfect. adjusting the front end wont do much- especially if youre just learning. i think a really good thing to learn is falling off backwards- so leaning to far back on back hops and jumping off and the same with when youre rolling- leaning too far back and jumping off. itll give you confidence to throw your weight around more on the bike. just keep at it, it all takes time.  

Yeah maybe I should just spend some time falling off and getting used to where the point of no return is

 

17 hours ago, jeff costello said:

 the top of the steerer tube should never be further down than the top screw of the stem.

Ah, right make that makes sense. Adding another spacer would bring the top of the stem clamp above the steerer tube.

[Daviesdt]

23 hours ago, iron_panda said:

Back Wheel hops - I can get onto my back wheel from a trackstand but I have to really throw my weight back. I know this is what you're meant to do but it feels like it's just too much. So I was wondering if anyone else has had this and if it's just a learning curve? Also with the hops and balance. Because I throw my weight back 'quite a lot' I get about 2 bakwards hops before I come off and put my left foot down (leaning to the left again).

Are you using half a pedal crank to stand the bike up on the back wheel or just throwing your weight back?  If the later, think you need to learn using the pedal to lift the front end into the standing position.

 

23 hours ago, iron_panda said:

Bunnyhops - My weight is too far over the handlebars and I'm just pulling up on the handlebars. Again, I know this isn't the way but because of the points above, I'm a bit hesitant to really throw my weight back whilst moving.

Bunny hopping is not pulling up on the handlebars, at least not in the initial phase of lifting the wheel. Arms should be straight as you keep your back level and throw your hips back over the back hub.  Essentially you are starting a short manual before hopping.  Think you need to be comfortable with the manual phase of it before moving onto the hop.  You dont have to manual for miles, just enough to lift the front wheel up by throwing body weight back over the rear hub and hold it for a second.  It can be a little disconcerting at first as you have a feeling you are just going to fall off, need to go slower at first to understand where the balance point is and have the confidence to put your foot down if you feel you are going to fall off, covering the front brake helps just incase you are going to loop out.

For the trackstand, which way do you turn your wheel and which footed forward are you?

Possibly film yourself and post the vids, may be a bit easier for folks to give you a few tips as to where you are going wrong, you may even see the problem yourself.

[DeersSlayer]

3 hours ago, Daviesdt said:

  You dont have to manual for miles, just enough to lift the front wheel up by throwing body weight back over the rear hub and hold it for a second.  It can be a little disconcerting at first as you have a feeling you are just going to fall off, need to go slower at first to understand where the balance point is and have the confidence to put your foot down if you feel you are going to fall off, covering the front brake helps just incase you are going to loop out.

Covering the rear brake would help more, yes?  ;-)

Just theory here, I still have not learned to manual or bunny hop....

[Daviesdt]

Er.... Yes! Back brake is what I meant! 

[iron_panda]

23 hours ago, Daviesdt said:

Are you using half a pedal crank to stand the bike up on the back wheel or just throwing your weight back?  If the later, think you need to learn using the pedal to lift the front end into the standing position.

 

Bunny hopping is not pulling up on the handlebars, at least not in the initial phase of lifting the wheel. Arms should be straight as you keep your back level and throw your hips back over the back hub.  Essentially you are starting a short manual before hopping.  Think you need to be comfortable with the manual phase of it before moving onto the hop.  You dont have to manual for miles, just enough to lift the front wheel up by throwing body weight back over the rear hub and hold it for a second.  It can be a little disconcerting at first as you have a feeling you are just going to fall off, need to go slower at first to understand where the balance point is and have the confidence to put your foot down if you feel you are going to fall off, covering the front brake helps just incase you are going to loop out.

For the trackstand, which way do you turn your wheel and which footed forward are you?

Possibly film yourself and post the vids, may be a bit easier for folks to give you a few tips as to where you are going wrong, you may even see the problem yourself.

No half pedal, just throwing my weight back. Will give that a try  Should I try this with the manual too?

Most of the time I turn my wheel to the right and I'm right footed. I'm guessing that if I turn my wheel left that should solve it?

[Daviesdt]

Yeah, give the pedal crank a go to lift the front wheel, don't do that in the manual though, manual is just body weight shift after a small preload stage.  

You might find the pedal crank difficult in terms of timing at first but stick at it, it's the more efficient way of lifting your front wheel when static, use the manual to lift when rolling. 

Track stand can be done either way but initially when learning I think most folks say turn your wheel left if you are right foot forward. 

[ooo]

On 5/8/2017 at 0:55 PM, iron_panda said:

Bunnyhops - My weight is too far over the handlebars and I'm just pulling up on the handlebars. 

 

That is your problem, you don't pull up to bunny hop (at all, at all), Ill describe it in a few different ways.

- you have to squat down low and move your weight backwards horizontally, then once you are past the pivot point stand up.

- compress, lean back and push your feet forwards and pull hands back, the stand up and push hands down.

- The movement is a bit like using one of those rowing machines they have at gyms.

- In terms of bike movement the bars need to go toward the pedals and the pedals toward the bars.

-The pull up motion is generated by leg and hip movement and your arms are just used for control. So don't use your arms to pull. 

if you do this properly you'll do the first part of the bunny hop (and be more of a stood up position).   ! At this point you are going to loop out because you'll land back wheel so you have to do the second part real quick. 

The next part is to bend your legs (squat/compress) and throw arms forward.  (Its kind of the reverse motion of the first part).

Also, imo if you ride a street zoot, don't worry too much about rear wheel hops and don't expect to be pogoing about. Work on wheelies and bunny hops.

[Daviesdt]

Just in line with what ooo said above, I remembered seeing this, it's directed to mountain bikes but the skill and movement is the same;

Funnily enough ooo, gave me the same advice about not focusing on back wheel hops with a street trials some time ago, made a difference as I went back to focus on more 2 wheel rolling mtb type stuff which allowed me to progress. I can now hop around on the back wheel but that's probably only because I got more comfortable with techniques such as manuals, bunny hops and front wheel lifts. Don't focus on stuff that is more suitable for a pogo stick at this stage.

[iron_panda]

Thanks for the tips guys! Maybe I should break it down and get parts of the tricks right rather than just going full on