Can I make my super trialsy-mod a street machine?

[omgnoseat]

I've been out of the sport for more than 4 years due to some problems with my health. I picked up a bmx last summer and it turned out to be a lot less straining on my body since the front wheel was so easy to pick up. In the end I really missed not throwing in some trials moves and sold it. 

So I'm wondering if I can turn my super trialsy bike into a bit more of a street machine. 

I don't remember the complete spec list but here are the important bits;
Frame : Echo lite 2013(?) ±1010mm wheelbase ±60mm bb rise
Stem : VIZ 150mm 30° 
Handlebars: VIZ no clue on geometry

I'm super tight atm and really want to spend less than 100 bucks. But the chain and headset bearings are quite rusted so I'll need to replace them anyways.
I was thinking of getting the Trialtech high rise bars to lift up the front end.
Unfortunately the stem that comes with the trialtech bars is way too low.

The highest stem I can see right is only 35° , so just 5° degrees difference with my current stem. Would that make a big difference? 
Or should I pick a stem with a short length instead? I noticed the inspired bikes all have quite short stems. But I see flipp running a long ass stem so I'm not quite sure

It's unfortunate the frame is so long in hindsight, I'm 178cm tall so not that short fortunately.
Is it worth it to give this a try, or is the frame just too trialsy?

Thanks!

Edited April 30, 2017 by omgnoseat

[Daviesdt]

Think you would always struggle bunny hopping with a bb that high mate, that said, have seen some folks pulling more street type trials moves on mods and stocks so guess possible but also guess it's way harder than on a BMX or Street trials bike. If street is what you want, may be best biting the bullet and picking up a second hand Street trials bike....

[niconj]

1 hour ago, Daviesdt said:

Think you would always struggle bunny hopping with a bb that high mate,

Why? Most comp riders bunny hop their mods onto the obstacles and theirs have even higher BBs. 

A shorter stem + high rise bars should make things streetier I think but wait for the experienced riders on this forum to confirm this.

[Herbertlemon102]

 

7 hours ago, omgnoseat said:

I've been out of the sport for more than 4 years due to some problems with my health. I picked up a bmx last summer and it turned out to be a lot less straining on my body since the front wheel was so easy to pick up. In the end I really missed not throwing in some trials moves and sold it. 

So I'm wondering if I can turn my super trialsy bike into a bit more of a street machine. 

I don't remember the complete spec list but here are the important bits;
Frame : Echo lite 2013(?) ±1010mm wheelbase ±60mm bb rise
Stem : VIZ 150mm 30° 
Handlebars: VIZ no clue on geometry

I'm super tight atm and really want to spend less than 100 bucks. But the chain and headset bearings are quite rusted so I'll need to replace them anyways.
I was thinking of getting the Trialtech high rise bars to lift up the front end.
Unfortunately the stem that comes with the trialtech bars is way too low

I'll throw down what I learned from riding my alias, hope this helps!

firstly- yes to trialtech bars. They make a big difference. 

Flipp runs a 165 actually, and I ran a 180. Longer than most mod stems. Bars were never rolled back to inspired guys' angles either, rise of the bars perpendicular to the floor always.

i owned the newer version of that frame with a 165mm stem, trialtech high risers and It rode really nice, I'll include a video of me bunny hopping and spinning it.  You have a lot of fork steerer too which will help massively. 

Im 6 foot dead. 

Ill include a link to Flipp riding what I believe is your frame too as it's still one of my fav videos  (and the bars are low rise in that video) 

is say it's very plausible as a general  

EDIT: the 5 degree does make quite a big difference I've found. I rode my 26 with a 90x 25 that I thought was a 90x 30 and couldn't do anything on it like normal. I was dead confused 

 

Edited April 30, 2017 by Herbertlemon102

[omgnoseat]

4 hours ago, Herbertlemon102 said:

 

I'll throw down what I learned from riding my alias, hope this helps!

firstly- yes to trialtech bars. They make a big difference. 

Flipp runs a 165 actually, and I ran a 180. Longer than most mod stems. Bars were never rolled back to inspired guys' angles either, rise of the bars perpendicular to the floor always.

i owned the newer version of that frame with a 165mm stem, trialtech high risers and It rode really nice, I'll include a video of me bunny hopping and spinning it.  You have a lot of fork steerer too which will help massively. 

Im 6 foot dead. 

Ill include a link to Flipp riding what I believe is your frame too as it's still one of my fav videos  (and the bars are low rise in that video) 

is say it's very plausible as a general  

EDIT: the 5 degree does make quite a big difference I've found. I rode my 26 with a 90x 25 that I thought was a 90x 30 and couldn't do anything on it like normal. I was dead confused 

 

Oh your riding is quite nice,  so explosive and spinny! Still confused wether to go for a short stem or a long one Maybe I should track down an older one with even more rise so I still achieve the same height with lower length. 

I notice flipp puts a pedal into everything in that video though

6 hours ago, Daviesdt said:

Think you would always struggle bunny hopping with a bb that high mate, that said, have seen some folks pulling more street type trials moves on mods and stocks so guess possible but also guess it's way harder than on a BMX or Street trials bike. If street is what you want, may be best biting the bullet and picking up a second hand Street trials bike....

I really want to keep riding a mod,  so a pure street trials bike is out of the question While the geometry is better I still find bigger wheeled bikes more sluggish to lift up,  and I need to be carefull with these spaghetti arms of mine 

I do have a 2006 echo lite frame laying around,  I know its 1005mm wheelbase,  but no clue about bb. 

[aener]

An astounding difference can be made to how your bike rides just by changing the handlebar angle.

For me (1.7m tall) on an Alias (585mm reach - your Echo will be somewhere near 600mm) with a 165mm stem I set the rise roughly perpendicular to the floor.
Before spending any money, change your bar angle. On a longer bike like you have you might even want to roll them as far back as having the rise running in the same direction as the headtube. I did that on my Marino.
It won't feel like a BMX, but it'll make a big difference and cost no money.

I don't have it with me so I'd need a bit of notice, but I have my one remaining home-made frame that is almost the same geometry as the Alias. The next time I go down to my parents' place I could pick it up and you can have it for however much it costs to post to the Netherlands. The only issue is that it has no brake mounts. If you want/need brakes and know someone who could weld them on for you then you're welcome to it. It's just made from mild steel so there's no issues with heat-treatment or anything like that. You'd also need to buy an integrated headset, but they're quite cheap as they're pretty much standard in the BMX world. If you rode BMX you might already even have one, I guess.

I'd say stick with the 150mm stem and tilt the bars back. 
If you're spending money, get TT high risers and do the same thing with them. (I also have an old and battered set of these that look awful but are structurally fine that you'd be perfectly welcome to, but given the size of them it would probably cost almost as much for to post them as it would to get a new set  If you want the frame I can chuck the bars in the box too.)

 

Don't listen to Daviesdt about bunnyhops and BB heights The Alias is +65 and is a bunnyhop-machine. If your frame is +60 then there will be no issue at all with that.

You're right that I pedalled everything back then. This was mostly because I hadn't learned how to bunnyhop at that time
But yeah, it won't be as streety as an Alias, though you can get it closer than it is now.

 

 

[Daviesdt]

2 hours ago, aener said:

 

 

Don't listen to Daviesdt about bunnyhops and BB heights

 

 

Probably for the best! I literally have no idea how you do some of the stuff you do on a mod! Tried some bunny hops and manuals on my stock..... It didn't end well!

[omgnoseat]

10 hours ago, aener said:

An astounding difference can be made to how your bike rides just by changing the handlebar angle.

For me (1.7m tall) on an Alias (585mm reach - your Echo will be somewhere near 600mm) with a 165mm stem I set the rise roughly perpendicular to the floor.
Before spending any money, change your bar angle. On a longer bike like you have you might even want to roll them as far back as having the rise running in the same direction as the headtube. I did that on my Marino.
It won't feel like a BMX, but it'll make a big difference and cost no money.

I don't have it with me so I'd need a bit of notice, but I have my one remaining home-made frame that is almost the same geometry as the Alias. The next time I go down to my parents' place I could pick it up and you can have it for however much it costs to post to the Netherlands. The only issue is that it has no brake mounts. If you want/need brakes and know someone who could weld them on for you then you're welcome to it. It's just made from mild steel so there's no issues with heat-treatment or anything like that. You'd also need to buy an integrated headset, but they're quite cheap as they're pretty much standard in the BMX world. If you rode BMX you might already even have one, I guess.

I'd say stick with the 150mm stem and tilt the bars back. 
If you're spending money, get TT high risers and do the same thing with them. (I also have an old and battered set of these that look awful but are structurally fine that you'd be perfectly welcome to, but given the size of them it would probably cost almost as much for to post them as it would to get a new set  If you want the frame I can chuck the bars in the box too.)

 

Don't listen to Daviesdt about bunnyhops and BB heights The Alias is +65 and is a bunnyhop-machine. If your frame is +60 then there will be no issue at all with that.

You're right that I pedalled everything back then. This was mostly because I hadn't learned how to bunnyhop at that time
But yeah, it won't be as streety as an Alias, though you can get it closer than it is now.

Man I missed the trials community, offering the frame is way too generous. But I'm not quite sure to what degree I can ride trials with all my health jazz going on, I think the frame deserves someone who can make full use of it. And brakeless scares me either way

Thanks for clearing that up, regarding the bar angle and BB height. I feel somewhat at ease knowing that I can make it work out with this frame.
I can't test rolling the bars forward right now as the bike is rough shape after sitting untouched in a moisty shed for four years, but once I'll receive new parts I'll let you know how it turned out!

Hit me up if you're ever in the Netherlands. Even if it turns out that I won't be able to ride I could show you around some nice spots

[jeff costello]

4 hours ago, omgnoseat said:

I can't test rolling the bars backwards 

flipp's advice was to roll the bars back (towards yourself when on bike). many trials riders today roll their bars forwards (often called 'carthy bars'), but flipp, ali c and a few others like their bars more upright. (my guess is, people who do mostly rolling moves like their bars upright, pure trials rider who do more static stuff like them all the way forward)

i agree that handlebar rotation changes the bike a lot. i can't sidehop at all with the bars forward.

Edited May 1, 2017 by jeff costello

[Herbertlemon102]

45 minutes ago, jeff costello said:

flipp's advice was to roll the bars back (towards yourself when on bike). many trials riders today roll their bars forwards (often called 'carthy bars'), but flipp, ali c and a few others like their bars more upright. (my guess is, people who do mostly rolling moves like their bars upright, pure trials rider who do more static stuff like them all the way forward)

i agree that handlebar rotation changes the bike a lot. i can't sidehop at all with the bars forward.

Echoing this, bar and stem make a mental difference. I had my bars rolled all the way back on my hex with a fairly long-ish stem, and couldn't sidehop at all really. Put my new shorter and higher stem on which made the bike loads shorter and I suddenly could, which made zero sense to me as usually shorter bikes make it more difficult  playing around with the front end is always a good idea  

[Ali C]

1 hour ago, jeff costello said:

 many trials riders today roll their bars forwards (often called 'carthy bars'), but flipp, ali c and a few others like their bars more upright.

Pfffft, upright is still forwards  It's all about the backwards sweep! 

[jeff costello]

52 minutes ago, Ali C said:

Pfffft, upright is still forwards  It's all about the backwards sweep! 

as long as bars are in front of the bike they are always technically 'forward'.

(this was not meant as a jab at anybody. just descriptive. i have my bars pretty much upright as well. all the time i feel (for even to myself inexplicable reasons) like wanting my bars a bit more fowards, but everytime i do that, i lose all riding skills)

Edited May 1, 2017 by jeff costello

[omgnoseat]

I meant rolling them towards me yeah

[Dift]

Sounds like you want to set your bike up like mine...?

A shorter stem and high rise on mine made the world of difference. Bunny hops are a little better now, and It feels better suited for me and what I want. I still need a shorter frame... I am saving for an alias.

[niconj]

Having seen some people bunny hop huge walls on a normal mod (with trials bars and stem angle), I don't get the entire "my bike isn't steety enough to bunny hop it" discussion.

I have tried to bunny hop a stock bike and it didn't work but it seems to me that people on mods bunny hop rather than pedal up obstacles. I thought that all mods where bunny hop machines. 

[omgnoseat]

9 hours ago, Dift said:

Sounds like you want to set your bike up like mine...?

A shorter stem and high rise on mine made the world of difference. Bunny hops are a little better now, and It feels better suited for me and what I want. I still need a shorter frame... I am saving for an alias.

Looks lovely! 

 

9 hours ago, niconj said:

Having seen some people bunny hop huge walls on a normal mod (with trials bars and stem angle), I don't get the entire "my bike isn't steety enough to bunny hop it" discussion.

I have tried to bunny hop a stock bike and it didn't work but it seems to me that people on mods bunny hop rather than pedal up obstacles. I thought that all mods where bunny hop machines. 

I could bunnyhop decently,  but I had to shift my weight super aggresively.  On a bmx it's a lot more comfortable,  especially the lower back gets an easier time. It's all about making it less taxing on my knackered body

My parts should arrive this monday.  I started assembling the bike again today,  I think the headset and bottom bracket are fine after some cleaning and lube,  but the freewheel has a grinding feeling to it.  I don't have money for a new freewheel so I'll see if it holds up

 

[aener]

On 2017-5-6 at 10:01 AM, niconj said:

Having seen some people bunny hop huge walls on a normal mod (with trials bars and stem angle), I don't get the entire "my bike isn't steety enough to bunny hop it" discussion.

I have tried to bunny hop a stock bike and it didn't work but it seems to me that people on mods bunny hop rather than pedal up obstacles. I thought that all mods where bunny hop machines. 

It's not that you can't bunnyhop them, it's the WAY they bunnyhop.

On a compy bike its a very slow process - pull the front up, manual for a bit and then hop. And doing them anything but up to the rear wheel feels awful because you're positioned do far forwards over the bike.

A 'streetier' set up sacrifices some of the benefits of a comp setup in favour of snappier bunnyhops, and because you're in a more upright position you can do them to two wheels and not feel like you're going over the bars.

I imagine it's a similar difference to riding a Harley Davidson and sports motorbike at very high speeds. Both can do it, but one can only do it in a straight line where the other is quite versatile whilst doing so.

Does that make sense? People bunnyhop compy stocks, but I notice you got an Inspired... Same thing. It's just the feel.

[niconj]

1 minute ago, aener said:

Does that make sense? People bunnyhop compy stocks, but I notice you got an Inspired... Same thing. It's just the feel.

It does. Thanks. I didn't know that a comp bunny hop included a short manual. I thought that the technique was pretty much the same.

[LEON]

You'll see more of a difference when trying to clear an obstacle instead of just getting on top of it, to clear something you need a quick snappy movement, that's much harder on a long bike, if you're using a ledge and just getting on top then there's a lot of help/room for error. That's why your best bunnyhop over will never be as high as your best bunnyhop up.

Edited May 7, 2017 by LEON

[DYAKOV]

Haven't read all the comment, so sorry if I'm going against anybody but if you're saying you don't want to spend a lot on the bike maybe you'll consider this:
 

My point is you don't really need the streety bits to do streety moves on it as it is mate

[AndyT]

On 5/17/2017 at 9:32 AM, DYAKOV said:

Haven't read all the comment, so sorry if I'm going against anybody but if you're saying you don't want to spend a lot on the bike maybe you'll consider this:
 

My point is you don't really need the streety bits to do streety moves on it as it is mate

That bash to rear on a rail was the greatest thing I've seen posted here all year. 

[omgnoseat]

Alright it took a while but the bike is up and running 

I'm surprised everything still seems to work well, except for the front brake which slips quite bad. It's a 160mm mt2, so I'm not sure if it's just weak or if it will need to bed in.

I also still need to get the chain tensioner bolt out somehow that's stuck in the frame, but fortunately I was able to fit the chain perfectly for now.

The front end is crazy high but it does help, it does feel like the frame is too long but it's still doable.
I can't ride more than 30min before my joints are too sore, but I'm satisfied with that for now. I hope my muscles will take over some of the stress after I get back into a bit of better shape. 

And yeah the color scheme is horrible  

Thanks for all the help guys!