Hook tutorial?

[cwtrials]

Besides the written one on trashzen I wasn't able to find a good write up on how to do a hook. Maybe my internet search skills are poor. Anywho. I get the basic idea, but am curious as to what should be going on with my brakes and any other pointers I may have not thought of.

Anybody?

Edited December 19, 2016 by cwtrials

[niconj]

5 hours ago, cwtrials said:

to what should be going on with my brakes

@Ali Csaid in on of his vlogs that a brakeless hook is easier. Should try it.

[ben_travis]

What type of hook are you looking at doing? A short run-up Pedal hook (most likely on a long bike) or a Bunnyhop Hook (most likely on a streetier bike)?

 

[Ali C]

Depends on the object and how you want to hook but for the sake of this argument lets just say it's a standard flat runup and flat wall and the technique is a bunnyhop.......not using the brakes is best in my opinion but it's not vital.

If you are on a longer bike that's harder to hop then you'll probably be pedalling into the hook and using brakes may be easier.

Basically with a bunnyhop your momentum is faster and if you get the timing right (wheel only just over the corner of the wall) and your weight correct (as far over the front as possible) the bike naturally wants to roll up the wall a bit which changes the forwards momentum into vertical and gets you on top of the wall. 

Using brakes with this technique essentially tries to stop the vital momentum and makes getting the height needed harder.

Of course this is different with a longer style bike or on narrower walls but for flat to flat I think no brakes is best.

One of the biggest mistakes I see when people try hooks is that they jump too high, they end up hitting the wall with downwards momentum which is super hard to recover from. 

[niconj]

I tried just the run up bunny hop thing just to see how to hit the wall right. It's so hard to not be too far over the wall with the front wheel. When this happens my bashguard already hits the wall making it impossible to do any forward/upward movement. 

Could you say that, if you got the position of the front wheel right, that what comes after this is some sort of a static hop?

This might be a good explanation. I don't know.

 

Edited December 19, 2016 by niconj

[aener]

I made this yonks ago. I'm not sure how everyone else does it, but this seems to work for me. Hopefully you can understand it
This is specific to bunnyhop hooks too - the theory might work the same for pedalling, but I've not tried them.

The smoother the rise of centre of gravity (solar plexus region for most people), the easier it seems to work. If you go too slow, you have to jump UP to the hook position, and then UP from the hook to switch.
For me, speed is king. It means you have to take off further back, but you can get a nice gentle rise that can continue from the switch onward. Speed also means you have more momentum, which carries you up on to the top. Hitting the wall is always going to suck a certain amount of momentum away from you.
Obviously this gets trickier as you get to your peak height, but then you can start wrestling. Just do ones at comfortable heights until you get the idea of them enough to start wrestling/improvising.

Key pointers, in my experience:
Go fast - faster than you'd approach any other technique, and possibly faster than feels appropriate/safe.
As Ali said, get the front wheel in just the right place. Ideally it will go up and just touch the top of the wall. Difficulty exponentially increases with the distance your front wheel moves down from where you put it to the top of the wall.
Lean forwards. A lot.

Doing all that at once is tricky, but there's a knack to it. Once you've got it, hooks aren't actually that hard.

Edited December 19, 2016 by aener

[ben_travis]

I went through a period of fear with hooks. To the point I wouldn't do them at all. I agree with both Flipp and Ali that the bunny hop technique is all about the speed.

Also, my opinion is that there are some walls that are too small to learn on, because you will end up getting too far up on the wall, hitting your bash / front wheel too far up etc. Make sure you find something that's high enough that you can't hop up it to both wheels

Edited December 19, 2016 by ben_travis

[DK.]

Been told it's easier on high bb bikes? Is this true? I've been trying them for like 10 years and I just don't understand it, So I don't do them lol

[niconj]

@ben_travis Fear of what? The only thing I can think of is hitting the wall with the front wheel. Other than that jumping down backwards doesn't hurt. Actually, I don't wanna know. I'm already afraid of learning them without knowing all the dangers. If @aener writes that speed is a key factor... speed also leaves a lot of room to screw up.

[ben_travis]

@niconj hitting the front wheel at speed was the fear for me. Coming from riding long bikes and only doing pedal hooks, as well as not having natural talent for street riding, I needed to work at confidence for my bunnyhop hooks. I've just got to the point I can do them comfortably on my Arcade, and the thing I had to get over was comfort with the speed.

 

[Mark W]

2 hours ago, ben_travis said:

Also, my opinion is that there are some walls that are too small to learn on, because you will end up getting too far up on the wall, hitting your bash / front wheel too far up etc. Make sure you find something that's high enough that you can't hop up it to both wheels

This.  Too low and it's just harder to keep that momentum going upward, or you have to do a really weird (and not representative of going bigger) hop into it. 

The brakes vs. brakeless things is work playing with too.  When I rode my Purple Sky and was doing hooks on the natural-ish stuff (not much of it actually vert, generally just weird shaped stuff) at Blackpool, quite often I'd do myself over because I'd default to pulling the brakes, and that would kill my momentum.  Learning to hold off doing that and just keep it brakeless and just use your body to preload/move the bike instead made life a lot easier.

[Shub_Step]

Very interesting post. 

Thanks for sharing your explanations. 

My biggest fear is to brake my forks (again) on them.. I am that heavy not smooth learner. Pulling the front brake was my main mistake (forks broke right above disc mount welding). This mental bloke prevents me to commit them vertical now .I found that they are easier brakeless though

Time to learn them consistent and smooth. This move can bring many new lines. Love hook. 

[niconj]

I tried to do some today or actually rather hitting the wall at the right angle. Unfortunately the wall was too low. I kept hitting my bashguard against it as my front wheel got to high above it. My mental blockade is when I have to move towards a wall I know I can't bunny hop. This is even multiplied by the speed you need to to get up that thing.  

[cwtrials]

Wow!  Thanks for the advice.  I'm on a 2016 Gu long bike now, so pedaling is where it's at.  It definitely seems that faster is better.  I've done different Hooklike moves on natty and even with a slight angle in the wall, but always where the rear wheel has a little bit to actually grab onto, not a "real" hook.  It seems like without brakes would make more sense, but I'm not sure I can get the speed on my Gu.

On a long pure bike, after initially hitting the wall, should I be releasing my brakes to help with the swap?

I'm on the lookout for a good wall to practice on.  Something a few inches higher than I can tap.  I bit of a rounded edge or a touch of angle would make it easier, but have yet to find such a wall, so I might as well just grow a pair and start riding fast at walls taller than I currently know how to ride up. lol.

Edited December 19, 2016 by cwtrials

[Mark W]

7 hours ago, Shub_Step said:

Very interesting post. 

Thanks for sharing your explanations. 

My biggest fear is to brake my forks (again) on them.. I am that heavy not smooth learner. Pulling the front brake was my main mistake (forks broke right above disc mount welding). This mental bloke prevents me to commit them vertical now .I found that they are easier brakeless though

Time to learn them consistent and smooth. This move can bring many new lines. Love hook. 

I got battered by Ali into doing them the 'right' way - getting your weight really far forward is the main thing really.  I learnt them brakeless then had to relearn them again when I had brakes as I kept pulling them when I didn't need to as grabbing a handful of brake is my default reaction to "I'm not sure what's happening" situations.  On a 24 though just getting your weight forward and really pushing through to let the bike just roll up works super well.

[niconj]

8 minutes ago, Mark W said:

a handful of brake is my default reaction to "I'm not sure what's happening" situations.

So I'm not the only one. I pretty much do that all the time I'm in the air. Bad habit which is hard to get rid of. 

How high should be the obstacle for trying to learn the hook? I can bunny hop to about 1m. Is 1.20m alright to start learning the hook? 

Edited December 19, 2016 by niconj

[Greetings]

So this brakeless technique would require you to hit the front wheel slightly below the edge? Otherwise won't you just slide into the obstacle with the cranks? 

[niconj]

I don't think it's below but just onto it and while the front wheel rolls on the edge, you pull yourself up. Since your rear will hit the wall it bounces away from it making a sort of backwards movement which helps you with the pull. This is the only thing I can think of.

[ben_travis]

1 hour ago, Greetings said:

So this brakeless technique would require you to hit the front wheel slightly below the edge? Otherwise won't you just slide into the obstacle with the cranks? 

No. Remember, both wheels are to hit at the same time (see Flipps diagram), you're essentially landing in a wedge, but the back wheel should give a bit of bounce (and you're momentum should put your body above the front wheel) with the front wheel being the pivot point.

Obviously the wheel will roll a little, that's why 'most' brakeless hooks go up to both wheels rather than to back.

[Herbertlemon102]

Everything that has been said, plus two things that i found- 

I know the hook has worked when i feel a certain springy feeling in my thighs

And obviously lean far forward, as far as you can, but keep your knees bent (at least that's what I've found) you hit the wall knees bent, then spring up into an extension using the rear wheel bounce to landing on the top. I didn't always do this and when i did my first vertical hook, through trial and error doing that seemed to work. 

Also, hooks feel f**king sick.

(Bunnyhop brakeless hook)

 

 

Edited December 20, 2016 by Herbertlemon102

[Greetings]

Cheers, going to try that next time. It's funny how during practice I get absolutely nowhere but then one in 10 failed attempts is a success and sends you flying up as if you weren't even trying. 

18 hours ago, niconj said:

How high should be the obstacle for trying to learn the hook? I can bunny hop to about 1m. Is 1.20m alright to start learning the hook? 

Try 130cm. Although you're riding an Inspired which is short, so maybe less?

[niconj]

1 hour ago, Greetings said:

Try 130cm. Although you're riding an Inspired which is short, so maybe less?

I tried 110cm and it was too low it's not that I couldn't put the bike onto the wall in the right position but rather the feeling the wall gives you. Since it's only about 10cm less than I can bunny hop, I don't really put much effort into it (going to slow basically). It's a blockade I have so I need to try something bigger. Then again, if it's bigger I'm kinda afraid of hitting the wall with the front wheel at high speed -> another blockade.

What is really hard for me is that both wheels have to hit the wall at the same time. Most of the times my rear hits it first, making my front wheel crash down onto the wall. In a way it's very different to a bunny hop to rear.

Edited December 20, 2016 by niconj

[Dman]

A few attempts from when @Paperclip taught me hooks. 

I can't get vertical ones yet, plus the spring off the board helped.

I find you need to hit it just right, with speed, don't brake until you switch to rear, then just brake to catch it.

That seems to be the position you want to be in just before impact, almost stood up straight on the bike, Willy on stem, head forward.

 

[niconj]

I finally found some place where I can start learning hooks without having to run up to a straight wall. It never occurred to me that I could actually try to get up on the other side of this rock. I always went up the easy way. It isn't really a hook as I'm partly rolling up onto it before doing the hop onto the rear but it's a start.

 

Edited January 5, 2017 by niconj
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[Ali C]

that's pretty cool, you're doing a half hook, half "shunt" thing....that's actually harder than a standard hook but useful for getting over narrow hooks where the front wheel can't roll far. If you do what you're doing but commit your weight further forward you'll find you'll just roll up it with no second stage needed (like 58 seconds here old Trialtech video with Stan) which is more the motion/weight position needed for standard hooks......keep it up though