Lacing a 28 hole front rim for the first time. Need some advice.

[Mr_Orange]

I've built a 36h rim before with no measurement tools. Just trued it on my bike. Didn't come on so good though. Never was really that true or round.

Now I've got a tension meter, dishing tool, and a truing stand and i'm building a 28h 3-cross pattern front wheel.

1) Is 3-cross on a 28 hole rim the same technique as on a 36h? Most tutorials show 32h or 36h for 20" wheels.

2) What is the proper tension value for this 28h wheel (i have a park tools tensionmeter)? I heard it also depends on the spoke type and rim (using USA double butted spokes: http://flatlandfuel.com/usadoublebuttedspokes1415g.aspx , and i have this rim: http://www.tartybikes.co.uk/20_inch_rims/hashtagg_front_20_inch/c26p13027.html)

3) What is the order in which i use the tools? I'm assuming first true it on the truing stand, then round it on dishing gauge, then tighten it to the right tension on the tensionmeter?

[robkerly]

exactly the same 3 cross technique as 32 or 36 holes, unless you are going for radial spokes (no crossing at all). wheelpro is a good little website thing for measuring the spoke lengths you will need. 

start by lacing everything loosely, next, make it round, (remove flat spots / oval etc) again not very tight yet, then make it true side to side. checking where you want it to be with your dishing tool while you go. I have never used a tension gauge, just used my intuition but the manufacturers will probably suggest a safe working tension. making sure they are as near the same tension as possible is more important that having the exact spot on tension, as they are all sharing the tension equally. work in small increments, maybe a quarter turn at a time, so as not to over tension one half of the wheel and warp the rim. its very simple and easy if you take your time and be methodical. good luck!

 

 

[Mr_Orange]

1 hour ago, robkerly said:

next, make it round, (remove flat spots / oval etc) again not very tight yet, then make it true side to side. checking where you want it to be with your dishing tool while you go. 

I've never used a dishing tool but I'm familiar with side to side truing on a frame. So it sounds like you have to go back and forth with the truing stand and dishing tool to make sure the side to side adjustments don't mess up the roundness and vice versa.

My truing stand is a cheap one (spin doctor ii) and i heard the built in roundness/dishing gauge on those is not good. Which is why i bought the dishing gauge. 

[niconj]

9 hours ago, Mr_Orange said:

My truing stand is a cheap one (spin doctor ii) and i heard the built in roundness/dishing gauge on those is not good. Which is why i bought the dishing gauge. 

It's not even that good on a Park Tool TS2.2.

[AdamR28]

Process and technique is the same. Tension 80kg max for that rim.

Dishing - remove one of the arms on the truing stand, flip the wheel over to check dish, easy Edit: Just Googled your truing stand, yeah, dishing gauge will be useful...

[Ali C]

Personally I get the wheel tru with medium spoke tension (looser spokes won't have as much effect and you'll have to do it all again once they tighten up anyway) and get the dish right at the same time (with Adam's one arm, flip the wheel technique), then when it's tru to a fairly good standard I then check the up and down (egg) truness (if the wheel isn't straight this can be a pain in the arse which is why I get it tru first).

Then I stress the spokes and tighten to pretty much the finished tension, then I check the tension meter, mainly to check they're all even tension rather than the actual tightness and then stress again to make sure the spokes aren't twisted....check the truness again and that's a job done.

[niconj]

8 hours ago, Ali C said:

Personally I get the wheel tru with medium spoke tension...

I do it differently. I try to have the wheel true (up and down) the same time I tighten the spokes (left right). After a few turns of the nipples on the entire wheel, I usually tighten the shorter spokes (if it's disc wheel or on most rear wheels) to the max tension and only after this dish the wheel tightening the longer spokes. I also stress the wheel about 20 times in this process. The fine tuning is done with the Tensiometer again checking that all spokes are about the same tension. On a disc wheel I rather have all the spokes the exact tension than have it 100% true. On a rim brake wheel this cannot be done obviously.

It also pretty much depends on the rim. Spank rims tend do be true already so if you start out with exactly the same turns on the nipples, it'll be true in no time. Some trials rims, well... aren't very true to start with.

Edited November 3, 2016 by niconj

[Mr_Orange]

i might have to read a more thorough tutorial on wheel building before referring back to this thread. I didn't even know what stressing spokes is. My wheel build technique was pretty basic.

On 11/3/2016 at 5:43 AM, Ali C said:

then stress again to make sure the spokes aren't twisted...

I remember reading that you're supposed to grip the spokes with plastic pliers when you tighten the nipples. Do you start to check for twisting after you've gotten all the spokes pretty tight?

Also, I'm going to re-build my rear wheel after i build this front one (without buying new spokes though). Does anyone ever undo all the nipples and reapply spoke prep to the threads? is that even necessary? Or should i just get all the spokes pretty loose and go from there?

[Ali C]

on bladed spokes I'd hold them straight but it's not as important with plain or double butted ones. I just find flexing the wheel at the end usually fixes it (if you get a new wheel you can hear "pinging" noises on the first ride, this is the spokes twisting back into position)

Stressing the wheel is basically putting the dents/impressions into the rim and hub.....if you ever see an old hub you'll see the spokes have dug in quite a bit. You need to do this when building the wheel otherwise the dents will happen when riding and the spokes will come lose. Most people will flext wheel wheel in their arms or on the floor, this can work on light weight wheels but for trials use with stiffer wheels and bigger overall forces during riding I find they need a more extreme stress, I usually put the wheel on the floor and physically stand on each pair of spokes twice, that usually stops any lose spoke issues.

[niconj]

 

1 hour ago, Ali C said:

physically stand on each pair of spokes twice,

You won't have the spokes dig into the hub body when standing on the wheel or does it happen?

I usually put the hub body onto an empty duct tape roll (how is this called?) and push with both arms on either side of the rim. 16 times for every spoke on a 32 wheel. Works a treat as well. If you use good nipples (Polyax are my choice here) the spokes won't even twist when tightening and you'll never hear a ping sound when stressing the wheel. I still do it though.