iron_panda Posted September 30, 2016 Report Share Posted September 30, 2016 Hey guys! I might need my rear wheel moving forward as I'm finding it a bit difficult to get the front wheel up. Could be because I'm an inexperienced rider and my brain is saying "you don't want to fall back and hurt yourself do you?" but I thought I'd ask anyway So regardless of if I have to take a link out of my chain I may need to use a chain tensioner but I'm not 100% on which type(?) I've had a look around on tartybikes and amazon and there seem's to be quite a few different tensioners so I'm just wondering what one I should get? Are the difference in design for different bikes? I've got a 2010 Onza Zoot. If you need pictures of the freewheel, chain and sprockets, I'll have to post them later. At work at the moment Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigjames Posted September 30, 2016 Report Share Posted September 30, 2016 I would hazard a guess that the wheel doesn't need moving forwards, you just need to tweak your technique and practice. Are you new to trials? Get some photos of the bike so we can see you set up and if possible a little clip of what you're struggling with, that might show exactly what the problem is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooo Posted September 30, 2016 Report Share Posted September 30, 2016 Yeah it's just technique. For most people when they start, they try and pull the bars up and into them, but their body weight is still on the bike. If you just pull with your arms you are trying to lift your own body weight, which is super hard. You need to crouch down with your legs and move your body backwards to the back of the bike so that it is further behind the rear axle, this will allow you to unweight the front. Just try on grass, wear a helmet or pads or whatever you need to to feel less sketchy. You can try learning to stand up wheelie (catwalk) that helps, plus it helps you learn to use the pedal to get the front up and to jump off the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dift Posted September 30, 2016 Report Share Posted September 30, 2016 I would say it is simply technique although pushing the rear wheel forward would naturally help. Next time im home, have a go of my bike, its a little lighter at the front than yours, but it will give you an idea of your bike with a shorter wheelbase. I can help you take a link out of your chain if you still wanted as it only takes 5 minutes and push your wheel forwards; you wont necessarily require a chain tensioner - i dont, and we have similar bikes. You have the skate park local, so just keep trying using the bottom of the shallow inclines to help lift the front. If you cover your rear brake you wont come off the back of the bike, and even if you do, its a case of putting your feet down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hewlejr Posted September 30, 2016 Report Share Posted September 30, 2016 ooo said it. Most of us, myself included, had trouble committing when we first began trying to pull up onto the back wheel. Your brain and central nervous system have a natural (and healthy) fear of falling backwards. This is because our arms and legs lack the strength and mobility to break a backwards fall the way that they do for a front fall. The way to ease that fear is to get comfortable balancing on the rear wheel. Only then will your mind and body be comfortable and confident launching up into that position. The obvious problem is that you have to get up onto the rear wheel before you can practice balancing there. The way I got around this was to rest my front wheel up on a bench, stack of palettes, stump, etc., step up onto my pedals with both brakes locked, and then begin hopping backwards away from the bench on my back wheel. Once I was comfortable with keeping my balance over the rear hub, I knew exactly where I needed to be and how it should feel when I began kicking/pulling up onto my back wheel from flat ground. Hope that makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iron_panda Posted October 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 Thanks for the tips guys! Just got back from the skate park and I'm pretty sure it's because I'm more weighted over the handle bars. so when I'm next out I'll (try) and shift my body backwards In regards to the trackstand... I come to a stop and instantly push my bike left, away from my front foot to try and balance Which subsequently, unbalances me. Is there a way to combat this? I've tried doing it on a slight incline which ( I don't know if it's the speed or angle I'm at) seems to make it worse. I find it somewhat easier on flat ground oddly enough. Although I did balance for around 4 seconds today, which sadly is my personnel best so far haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daviesdt Posted October 2, 2016 Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 Are you trying to align your body with your front wheel or just trying to turn your wheel? You should ideally turn your body with your front wheel and I think push your weight slightly forward and lean on your handle bars a bit. Make sure your front tyre pressure isn't low, squishy front tyres don't help track stands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dift Posted October 2, 2016 Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 I'm back in liverpool on Saturday night and will be at the park on sunday morning. Feel free to join tag along. Don't be disheartened. It will all click sooner rather than later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iron_panda Posted October 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 @Daviesdt Ah, I'm just turning my front wheel and pushing the bike away to the side without turning my body. I will give that a go when I get the chance! Thanks @DiftCool will do! Yeah it'll all come together at some point. Just wish I had loads more time! Definitely going to get a lot of riding in when it's summer again! Another quick question. I'm finding that when pedaling, the freewheel doesn't engage straight away. There's kind of a 'dead area' where pedaling doesn't do anything and noticed that my chain is a tiny bit slack. Does the slack on the chain cause this? Should it be like that? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daviesdt Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 Sounds like you have the wrong chain tension as that's what is being taken up when you pedal hence the gap. You need to pull your wheel back till the chain is straight then adjust your drop outs to hold it there. I think ideal chain tension should be only a slight amount of give when you press the chain down towards your chain stay, but that said you don't want it too tight as the chain could break. Think tarty bikes have a guide to setting up chain tension with horizontal drop outs, if they don't you tube will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hewlejr Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 A trials freewheel should engage almost instantly. Chain slack can produce a little bit of delay and backlash, but not to the degree that you describe. You should probably go ahead and order a spare freewheel to have on hand and definitely tension the chain. Regarding trackstands, the easiest version (if done properly) is to roll along the side of a mild incline (1 or 2 degrees) and then turn your handlebars as if to begin going up hill as you come to a stop. It doesn't really matter which side your front foot is on, what is important is that you turn your wheel in the uphill direction. The sharper you turn the bars, the easier it is to balance. Don't apply your brakes except to bring the bicycle to a stop. Once stopped, use pressure on your front pedal to hold the bike in place. If you begin to fall toward the incline, apply pressure to the front pedal. This will shift the bike uphill slightly and get it back underneath you. If you begin to fall downhill, ease off of the front pedal slightly, allowing the bike to shift slightly down hill. Practice with your bad foot forward too. The more you do it, the easier it gets and you'll find that you can do it without the incline, with the brakes locked, and without turning your front wheel as much. I still practice it all the time. And it is one of those things you can do indoors when the weather is not suitable for riding (e.g. winter.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iron_panda Posted October 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 Thanks guys! Will try moving the wheel back However, if I can't get the front wheel up due to the longer wheelbase and still want tension on my chain, I'm assuming that it's just a case of moving the rear wheel forward and taking a link out the chain? Again, it's more than likely due to poor technique at this point but thought I'd save time and ask now @hewlejr So if I'm not mistaken the incline essentially replaces the brakes? Whereas if there's no incline you use the brakes to couteract the pedals. If that's the case, I'm pretty sure that's another thing I'm doing wrong, I've been using my brakes with the incline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daviesdt Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 @iron_panda think it is lack of technique that is preventing you lifting your front wheel. Just to put it in context you are riding a 24 inch wheel bike with about a 380mm long chain stay and shortish wheel base, I've got something similar in my inspired. I also have a 27.5inch wheel full suss mtb with about a 420mm chain stay and way bigger wheel base but I can lift front wheel to do side hops, bunny hops, and wheelies and can also pull manuals on it. What I'm getting at is you are still sussing things out so I wouldn't get to fixated on trying to fix your bike as it's probably ok in terms of back wheel distance so long as chain tension is correct. it's just a case refining your technique to suit the bike. Out of interest, you didn't mention what you are trying to achieve with front wheel lifting. Are you aiming for back wheel hops, wheelies, manuals etc as may be something else you are doing wrong rather than playing with the bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dift Posted October 8, 2016 Report Share Posted October 8, 2016 I land Saturday night so should be around Sunday morning if you want a to try my bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iron_panda Posted October 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2016 @Daviesdt Yeah I'm pretty sure it's lack of technique at this point. In regards with chain tension.. think I'd need a tensioner as you mentioned that my wheel distance is probably ok? Ahh I wasn't really trying to achieve anything at this point. American bunny hops and manuals would be good to know (saw a video where some one says that if you learn 2, the other is a bit easier?) @Dift Ok cool yeah I'll be down there early, got a few things I want to try with the trackstand stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC12345678910 Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 (edited) 12 hours ago, iron_panda said: American bunny hops I recognise that terminology, because it's a term no one else uses. if you got that from that somethingsomething bike hacks guy on youtube, hack is a good summary of that guy. Ignore him. Ignore everything he shows you and go figure it out yourself, you'll do it faster, & you'll do stuff better in the end. I've watched that series and he has no place teaching others "how to ride trials" if he cant ride for shit himself. I don't bash on other people often but honestly most of the stuff he 'teaches', is showing a large section of people how to do trials wrong. I had to stop watching after about ep.4 or 5 because all it was doing was winding me up. @Ali C If you have seen the guy I'm on about, he is the reason you need to start doing how to's, because you'll do a proper job of it. Edited October 9, 2016 by CC12345678910 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dift Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 I had a go of iron_pandas bike this morning and it is very different to mine, despite the same frame (I have one link less in my chain). I think the longer stem with heavier forks and wheels may be detrimental to pulling the front wheel up for manuals. It does feel a little more stable on the back wheel than mine though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iron_panda Posted October 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 Yeah I had a go on @Dift's bike with the shorter wheel base and although it is definitely technique as I still couldn't really get the front wheel up more than a few inches i felt like it was more achievable on his bike... even though it wasn't haha. Going to have a look at shorter stems and see if that makes a difference Having said this, I can somewhat do it if I do a little endo and then get up on the backwheel (thanks Dift for the little tip!). Trackstands are also getting better! @CC12345678910 Heard the term from various videos on YouTube. I know what you mean by figuring it out for myself and I do agree with you. But at my level, I feel like I had to watch some videos to get a general idea of what tricks you can do and get an idea on how to do them. But thanks for pointing it out, I'll know not to take how'to videos too seriously now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dift Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 2 hours ago, iron_panda said: Just keep reducing the size of the size of the 'endos' until you can lift the front wheel up from a standstill. Once you can do that... you can do it moving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iron_panda Posted October 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 @Dift Aha! Good point! I seem to keep forgetting or not even thinking about the small steps in between and just going for the trick. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC12345678910 Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 (edited) On 10/10/2016 at 0:44 PM, iron_panda said: @CC12345678910 Heard the term from various videos on YouTube. I know what you mean by figuring it out for myself and I do agree with you. But at my level, I feel like I had to watch some videos to get a general idea of what tricks you can do and get an idea on how to do them. But thanks for pointing it out, I'll know not to take how'to videos too seriously now I maybe wasn't coherent enough. IMO; How-to vids from trashzen, thinkbikes etc. and no doubt the ones Ali C says he will do in time = Good n solid That MTB youtube channel with a guy that has been riding 5mins & is barely capable of handling that mint coloured inspired full build yet he has decided he is an accomplished enough trial rider that he can instruct others how to ride (as badly as he does, preaching all his mistakes, bad habits and traits as gospel) = bad Edited October 12, 2016 by CC12345678910 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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