Tyke trial...has it any future.

[Robin M S/c]

Seems like I need to put a few things correct regarding this post.

yes Barbara has resigned from the committee but that isn't why Brimham has been cancelled. The rest of the committee have been away in Europe at the worlds for the last 2 weeks so it is just a case of no one having the time to get the event organised.

the rest of the committee still remain and Tyke events will be run.

personally I joined the committee a few years ago to offer to help organise more events. Barbara wanted to do less after Brian sadly passed away and there was no one in the west York area willing to step in and organise the quantity of events that the keen riders wanted. Therefore it was effectively split between 2 organising groups in order to keep running approx 8 events per year, 4 in west York and 4 in south York / Derbyshire.

this has worked well and I have tried to focus down in Derbyshire of encouraging new riders as they are the future of the sport. I did this by setting out the sections the White / green riders wanted and not focusing on setting super hard elite sections. They are club events after all, not world championship events.

this has worked well and approx 2/3 of our entries are under 12 years old.

i stepped down from the committee earlier this year for personal reasons. Since then I have been very busy organising the BIU European Cup combined with the British BikeTrial Championship at Dudwood farm which was successful with 40+ riders compared to 22 in last years British championship so something must be correct.

Now the main continental season is over for us i will be starting a new club to run events in South Yorkshire and Derbyshire and these will be for the good of the sport and to encourage more participants. Adam rides club trials for fun and a bit of practice. They don't prepare him for world / euro events, that's why he is out practicing so much and travels to continental events for experience.

i am sure the current committee would welcome assistance in organising events going forward and we will be supporting the Tyke club in any way we can.

 

Robin M

[Barbara]

Felt that I needed to post personally on this topic, not as Biketrial Federation or as TykeTrial as usual.  Many thanks for all the kind comments about me.

There are no 'politics' involved in my decision to stop helping at TykeTrial.  I first got involved in February 1998 when my son, Chris, started riding trials ... that's 18 years ago!  I became involved in helping at national level in 2000. My son stopped competing in trials in 2001 when he moved on to BMX. 

I took a couple of years out from the Tykes committee in around 2005 due to 'over-enthusiastic' parents (and no, I'm not naming them) who wanted to dictate and to change the rules to suit their own riders.  The entry level dropped from 100+ at each club event to around 30+ within about a year.

I later re-joined the Tykes committee, and with the help of such as John Peacock and Wayne Mahommet (for those who remember them) rebuilt the entries to around 60-70 per club competition.

Sadly in 2013 my husband became seriously ill and passed away; at the same time I was suffering from my own illness and felt that I had no option but to retire again from TykeTrial - not because of any 'politics'.  In 2014 I underwent a serious operation and happily have almost fully recovered from my own illness.

So, late in 2015, when hearing that the entry level at TykeTrial had again dramatically dropped to the 20+ level, I volunteered to run (with help) some "practice / fun days" in the hope of increasing the entry level again for the club.  Such an event would not require the extensive paper-work and preparation that is needed for a 'competition', and would be aimed at riders of all levels just enjoying natural riding at some great venues.  Unfortunately this did not come off and I found myself increasingly pulled towards running competitions again for the club which I didn't feel was achieving my aim. 

Therefore when the TykeTrial Brimham event was coming up recently, I found myself in the situation that, because of the World events the week before, there was absolutely NO-ONE to help me organise and run the Brimham event.  I cannot run them on my own - I contacted everyone on the Committee and had no option but to cancel.  (I will add that one of them didn't event bother to reply to me!)  

It was at this point that I realised, I don't need this stress!  I don't have a rider of my own, I do have two beautiful granddaughters that I'd like to spend my weekends with!  And I'm not getting any younger!

In addition, I must say that I have for a while been feeling VERY deflated with the lethargy shown by riders.  I put a lot of work (and personal expense) into the preparation of an event that is completely unseen by anyone (unless they've done it themselves) and riders CAN'T EVEN BE BOTHERED TO PRE-ENTER.   Once upon a time, TykeTrial entries would close at 120 riders, and we would have a waiting list of those who wanted to ride if anyone dropped out!   Nowadays we're lucky if we've got half a dozen pre-entries up to a couple of days before and the rest come in at the last minute or even just turn up on the day without letting us know.

Can anyone explain to me WHY organisers should bother to try to do special events or put on any extras for you if you can't be bothered to let them know you want to come?  How many riders (not ex-riders) actually read this part of the forum and comment?  Look at the post about the Ackerley's venue Olde Home Farm

No matter what anyone says, most people always have a reason for doing what they do.  Parents only help out because their child is involved (I only came along in 1998 because my son rode) and when their riders move on to other things, the parents move on too.  That's just the way it is, and rightly so.  However, occasionally you get some people who do something for no reason other than they like helping others: Graham Tickner running Crowthorne Club does it because he enjoys it; I'm not sure exactly why Kevin runs the Scottish Club, but I'm pretty sure he enjoys doing it.  Personally, over the years Brian and I made some great friends and we enjoyed the social side, and I like nothing better to see new riders coming along and watching their progress.  Even though I don't see Ali C very often nowadays, I have fond memories of his very early years riding at TykeTrial.  I remember Danny Butler, Ben Savage, Andrei Burton, Owen Gawthorpe, Jack Carthy and many more names that you'll know well coming along to the comps in their early years and I am so proud that all have done so well for themselves and hope that I helped a little in their progress.

It's all very well for people to criticise competitions and 'the politics'.  Many people do have their own agenda, but that's life, that's how it usually is in everything.  There will always be cliques no matter what you do or where you go - you have to learn to recognise it and decide if you want to do something about it and join in ... make the clique a big clique - that's what a club is, people joining together, getting to know each other, and working together.  It used to be an achievement to be a part of the TykeTrial clique!

I remember reading in MBUK once a piece where Eddie Tongue was interviewed (this was back in the days of the TrialsKings videos and the very beginning of the trials forums):-

Q: What's the best thing about trials right now

A: The internet

Q: What's the worst thing about trials right now

A: The internet

In my opinion, he has been proved right. 

Whilst the internet has given access to information, videos etc - social media has killed the personal interaction of getting together at an event and so destroyed almost all of the competition and social side of trials in the UK.  Once upon a time riders got together on a monthly basis at club events and had a great time and a good laugh and looked forward to the next one.  Nowadays you see each other once a year at Tartydays or Radical Bikes.  You go to those events expecting to enjoy it and so you do.  However, you've read so much bad publicity about 'politics' at competitions that you've got the mindset that it's not for you so you don't go.

I challenge everyone to come along to a competition with the mindset that you're going to meet new people, learn new things from them, help out the younger riders, ride different things at a different place and that you're going to enjoy the challenge.

That is the only way for competitive trials and for the clubs to survive.  As with everything organised, use it or lose it; be it the local library or the local trials club!

 

The next trial that I am organising is the final round of the British Trials Cup at Hook Woods, Surrey on Sunday 11th September.  Camping is available on Saturday night (£5 per vehicle/tent).  Sunday is the competition, and Graham always puts on some type of "fun" thing afterwards; a hill climb or speed section etc.  Entry form is available on www.biketrialuk.co.uk now, you can enter and pay online it only takes two minutes.  Come along and sign on then enjoy it!

 

Sorry for rambling so much! 

 

If 100 people responded to this saying that they would attend a fun trial at Brimham and at least 10 people promised to help set it up, then I would very happily organise it for you!

Edited August 19, 2016 by Barbara

[josh of super Leeds]

Well Barbara you said it all there so perfectly and with so much humility. I met you the first time around 2000 when you had clean bikes and we were talking about the place we were stood I.e Addingham moor rock!s. The shit with the hunt dog's and the politician and DEFRA..but mainly the politician that had it in for the trials fraternity motors or pedal power in and around Silsden..your argument back then was clear.

The next time we spoke was at your house in 2004 when I bought from yourself a 205 and you invited me in to your house on the hill. It was like going back home, so warm with various smoke and I can't put it into words but it just felt like home!

Now for a little rant!!

You have spent a lot of money on that nice van and this year I too went the whole hog and spent circa £15000 to accommodate the full Tyke trials season to be told it had collapsed after one weekend. Yes there were a few that took the piss very literally the night before (Ackelrly's) and also the thing with Adam getting hurt on the first section and PUSHED to carry on when a bit of loveing and hugs plus a medic might have been the order of the day? But hey ho who am I to judge other people, at the end of the day I am nobody compared to people on here!

If a new direction is needed with new enthusiasm I will give it a go Barbara but top and bottom of it is..if another 9 come in to help at Brimham we still need you!

 

[kevind]

Boom from Barbara. From a personal side I do it because i love it and i get to spend time with now One of my boys and the other now plays rugby which fills my winter weekends and yes I do help at the rugby club as much as I am needed, even down to filling the water bottles pregame or taking a turn washing the game jerseys. These days will move on a as they go do their own thing which is already happening. Will I help after boys, I don't know but I have done this all my life from moto trials, enduros,  4x4 racing at British level. and always sat on committee and /or spent many weekends helping. As Barbara, mentioned never for the thanks, but when it happens it makes it more worth while. Now I get more help just doing little things at the Scottish comps, that makes my set up and comp day easier and more enjoyable. Also to give to every rider a chance to progress and see them do so is just a brilliant feeling. (apart from maybe Ross MC as he was old when I met him, but doesn't seem to get any older and his bikes get more and more roadier by the year, but has been a year on year  rider which i thank him for) I have stated how I will try to progress the Scottish club with comments and more  help it will survive. Robin and J of SL has stuck their  heads up and offered, 

Czech was by far the best foreign event we have attended in out four years of doing this. I am fortunate that I work my ass of to afford it and it has been our summer hols. Why was it so good this year, we had great sections and organisation, but it for me was like the old days when I travelled to events, majority of the British team in one hotel and thanks to certain over the top characters (what happens on tour stays on tour) it was just a laugh for a week, and that's with three new families on tour that just joined in the fun. They assure me they will be back, but perhaps there may have been to much public nudity and they are scared for life. What I am saying here is brilliant times that I will laugh at and tell tall tales over the years to come, made new friends and helped new riders progress at world level. But the most important thing for me as a dad is that both my boys, share the same memories and now have friend from around the world. (Which they can and do keep in touch with due to this bad or great thing called the internet) The world moves on and perhaps trials has not, I am of an older generation that part of what Barbara and Ali C discusses, maybe the new torch bearers are not going to come through, but I disagree, younger riders once they realise and are educated  that it all just doesn't organise its self tend to help when asked. That is also going to help them in the long run.

Clubs always run on a few and that will never change, as people are either to busy or are the type that just expect that everything is done for them and these also tend to be the ones that whine the most when they do not get what they want. I have reached an age when I can now tell them to shut the F*** up or pick up the marker tape and help and have done.

Now off to complete loading the van, done all the paperwork yesterday and head off to Fort William to set up and run the next one. Camping with beers, friends and BS stories to tell and make more BS stories.

Edited August 20, 2016 by kevind

[Robin M S/c]

5 hours ago, josh of super Leeds said:

Well Barbara you said it all there so perfectly and with so much humility. I met you the first time around 2000 when you had clean bikes and we were talking about the place we were stood I.e Addingham moor rock!s. The shit with the hunt dog's and the politician and DEFRA..but mainly the politician that had it in for the trials fraternity motors or pedal power in and around Silsden..your argument back then was clear.

The next time we spoke was at your house in 2004 when I bought from yourself a 205 and you invited me in to your house on the hill. It was like going back home, so warm with various smoke and I can't put it into words but it just felt like home!

Now for a little rant!!

You have spent a lot of money on that nice van and this year I too went the whole hog and spent circa £15000 to accommodate the full Tyke trials season to be told it had collapsed after one weekend. Yes there were a few that took the piss very literally the night before (Ackelrly's) and also the thing with Adam getting hurt on the first section and PUSHED to carry on when a bit of loveing and hugs plus a medic might have been the order of the day? But hey ho who am I to judge other people, at the end of the day I am nobody compared to people on here!

If a new direction is needed with new enthusiasm I will give it a go Barbara but top and bottom of it is..if another 9 come in to help at Brimham we still need you!

 

Correct, who are you to judge. Adam was certainly not pushed to carry on, he got all the loving he needed and as a very determined competitor who pushed himself he wanted to carry on. 

He is old enough now to make his own decisions on things like that which he did.

[ItsMatt]

This thread is a good example of why wearing tights and putting tape on rocks is dead.

[Barbara]

14 minutes ago, ItsMatt said:

This thread is a good example of why wearing tights and putting tape on rocks is dead.

 

This post is a good example of why people give up bothering to volunteer to do things for you.

[ItsMatt]

5 hours ago, Barbara said:

This post is a good example of why people give up bothering to volunteer to do things for you.

sorry I have no interest in comps

[josh of super Leeds]

Well I am sorry if this thread upset people, but the tit for tat back chat needed to be addressed. All I wanted was the reason why Tyke had allegedly wrapped up? There obviously is no definitive answer! I apologise to Robin first of all if my thoughts were in your eye's offside..Your judgement must be right because Adam wouldn't be where he is now without good coaching and judgment.

Barbara you don't need this and I hope you and your grand daughters eat a lot of ice cream and love every minute you have together.

Kevind keep up the great work, you spoke genuinely and come across as a straightforward, no messing bloke but you are Scottish so I would expect no less. We plan next year to enter a few of your trials and I look forward to chatting with you.

[kevind]

Just back from Fort William, The new riders appeared again and we all chipped in and helped run another fantastic trial. enough observers and helpers. Beer till midnight around a camp fire, F***in midges last night but enough beer and they seem to go away or maybe i just started get them pissed as well!  Next one is near the Englishshire border at a new venue for us, so all Englishire people welcome. will post up details soon. (except any body that has no interest in competitions! )

[Robin M S/c]

14 minutes ago, kevind said:

Just back from Fort William, The new riders appeared again and we all chipped in and helped run another fantastic trial. enough observers and helpers. Beer till midnight around a camp fire, F***in midges last night but enough beer and they seem to go away or maybe i just started get them pissed as well!  Next one is near the Englishshire border at a new venue for us, so all Englishire people welcome. will post up details soon. (except any body that has no interest in competitions! )

What date Kevin?

[kevind]

2nd October.

[kevind]

On 20/08/2016 at 0:35 PM, ItsMatt said:

This thread is a good example of why wearing tights and putting tape on rocks is dead.

Thanks for the insightful  contribution there. Those of us that make an effort to contribute will I am sure lay on some breakfast bread if you ever wish to broaden your horizons. As CEO of whatever it is you are CEO of, maybe your demands will be outwith our  clubs resources. I am sure that the riders that went out for a street ride at Fort William Saturday night before the comp on  Sunday fully back you up, but I did make them change into lycra before the comp.

[magpie-twigs]

On 20 August 2016 at 8:45 AM, Robin M S/c said:

Correct, who are you to judge. Adam was certainly not pushed to carry on, he got all the loving he needed and as a very determined competitor who pushed himself he wanted to carry on. 

He is old enough now to make his own decisions on things like that which he did.

Well said Robin nobody should judge how a parent brings up his child. Who are you josh of Leeds !! You seem to have so many facts when really know nothing. Come and see me at the next trial and maybe put you straight on a few things regarding the running of tyke trial and who really has had the involvement. I'm not one for been a keyboard warrior, face to face is always better then I know who I'm talking too. 

 

Regards Jase Seymour. 

Edited August 22, 2016 by magpie-twigs

[magpie-twigs]

Regards Jase Seymour. 

[magpie-twigs]

On 16 August 2016 at 8:11 PM, BJ. said:

I was fairly certain Barbara stepped down about 2/3 years ago when her husband sadly passed, the events where then taken over by Robin Morewood and co. A lot of people stopped riding the comps due to them being slightly narrow minded and throwing accusations among them selves that the sections where set up so younger riders could 'dab' around flags and accused them of cheating etc etc. 

Anyway I believe that the tyke trail scene will die out for a while if I'm honest. The reason being, most of the people who used to compete are now of an age where they work and have other commitments and the younger generation of riders don't drive so struggle to make it to the events. 

Right Barbara did step down a few years back. Well done Brad. 

[magpie-twigs]

On 16 August 2016 at 8:30 PM, josh of super Leeds said:

Barbara has being attending the Tyke trial event's but in what capacity I'm unsure. Kerry Seymour has been running the club but it is said that the Seymour's, Tim McParland and Robin Morewood are all pulling in different directions. Allegedly Robin is wanting to kind of tie it in with a Motorcycle trial club in Derbyshire but this is all hearsay. This is all I know but a bit of clarity on the future would be nice as opposed to the deadly silence coming from the Tyke trial web page.

Barbara has been attending the club trials purely for the love of the sport and to help out as much as she can. She has had no dealing of running the club for some time now. Again Tim and Robin both stepped down quite some time ago so how the hell can Kerry,Tim and Robin be pulling in different directions. Robin is doing a fine job pushing the sport in his local area hence his South Yorkshire trials.  I'm amazed you know so much and yet again so little. 

[Barbara]

On ‎17‎/‎08‎/‎2016 at 8:12 PM, josh of super Leeds said:

It was just that when Tim gave a speech at the last round at Ackerly's he basically gave an unveiled quote that the club needs help and looking all but resigned to the fact that it was over. He actually seemed to give a rat's ass.

Just come back in to this post to re-read and noticed this quote.

For information, this was NOT Tim McParland, this was Simon Ackerley himself who made this speech about the club needing help.  Tim was the guy who asked people at the end to let him know if they wanted team jersey's for the BIU Worlds.

[magpie-twigs]

29 minutes ago, Barbara said:

Just come back in to this post to re-read and noticed this quote.

For information, this was NOT Tim McParland, this was Simon Ackerley himself who made this speech about the club needing help.  Tim was the guy who asked people at the end to let him know if they wanted team jersey's for the BIU Worlds.

Right Barbara,maybe josh from Leeds has it mixed up again. ????? 

[kevind]

Slightly off topic but I do think it is applicable, I do know no one volunteered  to do it when Ben S stood down. Ali C mention of the lack of the need to get together because of social media and the internet, we as trials community do almost nothing to use it to promote trials and especially when we win at world level. Look at Tribalzine French or Trials Inside Italian? to see how much they promote their own. Other than Aaron telling me yesterday that Jack won again I would have no idea. How many here know how well the BIU riders did or Adam won his class at the youth games?  That is perhaps where somebody(s) needs not to be helping run the comps but do their bit on getting British trials on the interweb.

Aarons brother will have a couple of youtube edits up of the BIU riders in Czech shortly.

Thoughts?

[Mark W]

I was under the impression Sean Putt was doing the media side of things?  Or something along those lines anyway...

[kevind]

If Sean is the guy that works with Adam at TB, then yes he was volunteered, but is only doing the BTF webpage. as far as I know.. I am guilty as charged about not feeding information to be put on the website from the Scottish club. But as I said I do not do social media as one, too old and two I really dislike most of it, don't care what everybody had for breakfast. I need help from someone in our club. I know Graham at Crowthorne does a better job, but it isn't  centralised.

Although I was going to send Jack on a how to butter toast course after his last video.

When we were in Blackpool at the British, there was a BMX event on and I got chatting about that with someone after, and he mentioned that some of of these events get over 900 entries. Now I know its an Olympic sport and therefore gets funding from the Manchester battle star, but that is still a lot of people taking the time to travel and compete, The point being is that presented with a proper competition calendar and trials into a new age then perhaps there is the enthusiasm to see if we can move it on. Look at putting a trial on with one of these BMX rounds? Bloody big Audience? There is the enthusiasm for that as my round at Cream of the Croft proved, over 2000 people over the weekend watched in amazement at what trials is, constant thanks and questions and new lads coming to have a go. They are desperate to have us back as it added to the weekend for the organisers big time as it was easy to watch. We get free access to all that they have organised over the weekend.  As I said before, comps on a windswept hill side are dead. Although Barbara might explode with 900 entries!

Can anyone explain how the European countries can build trials courses for their national events and where the funding comes from as they seem to be doing ok for numbers?

Edited August 23, 2016 by kevind

[kevind]

17 hours ago, Barbara said:

Just come back in to this post to re-read and noticed this quote.

For information, this was NOT Tim McParland, this was Simon Ackerley himself who made this speech about the club needing help.  Tim was the guy who asked people at the end to let him know if they wanted team jersey's for the BIU Worlds.

These are another two gentlemen who put in a huge amount of effort and money into trials in this country and I for one thank them for that, so perhaps tykes just needs moving on.  New times people lets all give each other a cuddle and prove the CEO of team toast inc is wrong apart from the tights bit as that has moved on .Although I thought I saw Robin in tights when he thought no one was looking, practising on Adams bike for a comeback in the new over 35 class at BIU.  I might get a one piece lycra trials suit and go for a street ride with team toast and anybody who knows me, will know I might get locked up for that.

[Mark W]

2 hours ago, kevind said:

If Sean is the guy that works with Adam at TB, then yes he was volunteered, but is only doing the BTF webpage. as far as I know...

No, Sean's nothing to do with us - the first time I heard his name was in relation to that role, possibly in an e-mail from Barbara?  I can't fully remember... On that note though, I'm not a huge fan of the new BTF page.  To me it seems harder to navigate and find information on than the old one, but it could just be I'm a creature of habit...

When we were in Blackpool at the British, there was a BMX event on and I got chatting about that with someone after, and he mentioned that some of of these events get over 900 entries. Now I know its an Olympic sport and therefore gets funding from the Manchester battle star, but that is still a lot of people taking the time to travel and compete, The point being is that presented with a proper competition calendar and trials into a new age then perhaps there is the enthusiasm to see if we can move it on. Look at putting a trial on with one of these BMX rounds? Bloody big Audience?

I think putting it on with an event like that would maybe be a step more in the right direction.  There seems to be this perceived idea that as far as trials demos/events go that 'any publicity is good publicity', but in terms of take-up and the likelihood of people deciding to get involved, you need to be hitting the right demographics (for want of a better word).  If you've got a load of kids who already have an interest in riding bikes you're more likely to get uptake than just doing some kind of event that's primarily attended by older people who are likely to not have much interest in actually getting involved, merely seeing it as a distraction/sideshow.

What's probably helping BMX get that huge backing though is a combination of things.  Starter and kids bikes are cheaper and more readily available, there are clubs kids can join that allow them to get together on a weekly basis to learn the ropes, there's a huge range of places to ride, there's no ambiguity about how it works, there's no arguing with decisions, etc.  The format also means that there's always something exciting for the riders/parents which probably plays a big part of it too.  Lining up at the gate for a sub 1minute long moto is a bit different to going off on your own around some sections for 6-7 hours.  I think that was one thing that worked pretty well with the Open Trial.  Although the way it was done wasn't perfect, having that hour break in the middle for everyone to re-group, have something to eat and see the scores and what they needed to do in the second half drew everyone together a bit more.  The feedback from afterwards backed that up too.

Can anyone explain how the European countries can build trials courses for their national events and where the funding comes from as they seem to be doing ok for numbers?

Regional/council and government funding from my understanding of it?  I know some riders get helped out with money too, such as Gilles.  The only thing is I don't know whether it's the funding that comes first, or the numbers that come first?  Most authorities tend to be pretty tight with their money, so to me it would suggest that there had to be a reasonable level of interest before investing in supporting it, rather than just taking a punt on it? 

 

1 hour ago, kevind said:

New times people lets all give each other a cuddle and prove the CEO of team toast inc is wrong apart from the tights bit as that has moved on.

Afraid not - saw a video recently on some comp riders doing a demo, just wearing a set of compression tights and a T-shirt.  That 'look' is still unfortunately alive and well...

 

[Ross McArthur]

I for one would like to see a Team Toast comp edit.

Banging Techo tunes (no euro), explosions when kids land on bash plates, dolla signs on medals, gangsta glasses and joints on pushy parents faces when observers don't notice dabs, random interviews with stupid questions...

Its all memes. I don't know why I like it but I do.