Tyke trial...has it any future.

[Mark W]

I genuinely don't understand how I can make things any clearer.  I wasn't saying you thought you were the only one there, I was pointing out that you weren't.  The whole "I don't like the dark star let's not go there" thing was what I was getting at. 

Again, you haven't understood what I meant about clubs/businesses/anything to do with that.  We're not disagreeing about it because you don't even get my position on it despite me spelling it out repeatedly.

This is partially why I have no interest in doing more to help because no-one ever actually listens to what's being said.  Everyone's already got a fixed idea of how things should be done because that's how they've always been done, and that's it  I've had to repeat myself so many times and it's clear that you're not actually reading it.  You keep saying you "understand" but then start chatting about something totally different to what I've said.  This mindset is partially why I went to the AGM as I just wanted to see what the process was like.  It turned out it was pretty much exactly what I thought it'd be like.  There's so much potential and none of it getting realised.  I could set up all the centralised info stuff that I'd mentioned before in about 20-25mins, but there's zero point because I could go over again and again about how it worked, and I know that none of it would get taken on board.

[Mark W]

As a more helpful suggestion seeing as my last post wasn't particularly constructive:  Of the people who replied to that previous survey, 75% of those who hadn't been to a comp before said they hadn't done so either because they didn't think they were good enough (50%), or because they didn't have the info available about where they were, how to enter, etc. (25%).  It's not a huge sample size, but it's worth noting for the future.  There's no reason that anyone should feel that comps are too hard for them because that's the whole reason behind different categories, so if half of the people who replied felt that was the problem then it's worth doing something to try and draw them in.  If people aren't getting involved because it sounds like they don't know where the next events are going to be and when then that should be fairly easy to solve too through a few more updates on either club or BTUK websites, or on any social media type pages.  Behind the BTUK website, TF and FB were the places people most found out about comps, so trying to put more info up here or a simple post on FB would probably be useful (as a side note, as I mentioned in the meeting before, if you just chose a simple hashtag for whichever club/series is involved, it'd also allow people to find media/info about them much more easily too if it's posted up).

[Ross McArthur]

I see what Mark is saying about promoting info but really, how hard can it be? There's one single point of information, being the BTF website. What else is needed? Someone sitting updating Twitter, Insta, FB, bla de bla de bla

It seems that if people don't see a little red 1, notification being forced in their eyes, they'll claim not to know about it. Use your brains people. Pick up the phone, ask someone. Its not hard.

 

[Mark W]

In fairness, if you don't know where you're looking on the new BTUK website it can be a little confusing.  Previously there was a menu across the top with "Events", "Clubs", "About" and so on which made it pretty easy to navigate whereas now it's a little less so.  If being mainly involved in 'customer facing' stuff for TB has taught me anything, it's that you have to make things painfully f**king obvious so you can catch everyone.

[AndeeeMK2]

On 28 August 2016 at 6:06 PM, kevind said:

 I I disagree that clubs should be run as businesses and that they should be run as a group of liked minded people

 

This ^^^^^

Edited September 1, 2016 by AndeeeMK2

[JD™]

As someone completely outside, I think I can be a bit more direct about this:

Running "as a group of like minded people" has resulted in this topic. Good job. Pat yourselves on the back. No offence to the individuals involved, but despite your best efforts it seems the state of UK competition trials is in the shit. The ol' Albert Einstein quote comes to mind. Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. 

Everyone seems to be getting the definition of "running as a business" wrong. It's not rocket science, and boils down to this:

Listen to your f**king customers. Yes, competition entrants are customers.

That's it. No, you don't have to wear a suit or have a business card. You don't have to boss anyone about. You can still be a group of like minded people. Here's a shocker for you: Most good businesses are like minded people.

 

Once again, to clarify: This is not a personal attack at anyone. If you feel the post is about you, it's not. It's about you all as a group, and the general attitude towards change and evolution. Things that don't evolve die.

Edited September 1, 2016 by JD™

[TheChai]

This topic has really hit home to how much confusion there is within the trials competition scene. 

I dare call Biketrials federation the main body, but even with that statement I feel like I am threading on egg shells. 

It just sounds like there is a lot of resentment and we are struggling to progress. 

Mark has gone through a lot of detail on how to improve and make competitions more efficient and accessible, however there is some clear disjoint within the organisation and the main volunteers that put these competitions together that really need to be addressed before the group can move forward to do greater things. 

I urge the community to set aside our differences and work together with what we have, we need consistent goals and a consistent strategy to go anywhere. Have we got a vision of what we want trials to be in 5, 10 years time? Is today what we wanted trials to be 5 years ago? If there is it is clearly communicated? I am not aware of one.

Many people doing the same thing without clear direction is chaos. 

There is a lot of potential but we really need to agree on a consistent strategy and have everyone working towards it. 

it is very clear that this is not currently happening. 

Basically we need a leader.

[magpie-twigs]

The chai

 

i feel I have to have little comment regarding your comments. It always makes me have a little chuckle when we can all sit at home with a keyboard in front of us and have these big ideas on how the club should be run and how poorly it is run,but again nobody steps up to put their money where your mouth is. Do you realise these are people who have worked extremely hard over the years to run these trials for you ... For them to read your comments, it can be very hurtful even though you all keep saying not directed at anyone yeah ..  Has to be directed at someone but again keyboard warriors ....  Yes you are right Mark has some awesome ideas and I do think they could work but who will put their hand up and say yes I will have a crack at that!! In your last comments you mention the word WE and COMMUNITY, PROGRESS and a real good one WORK TOGETHER. What a joke I'm sorry .. Riders turn up pay there money to ride if you haven't bothered to enter on line , ride the sections, have a bitch and a moan at something too hard or something too easy .. Then pack up your bike and go home . But we Talk about WORK TOGETHER .. Sorry it's laughable 

Not once can I recall, I might be putting my neck on the line here ,90% of riders don't even bother to help pull the flags up at the end of the trial. It's left to the same observers who stand out in the rain and wind time after time. Does anyone ever offer to help out at the beginning of the trials with signing on riders when sometimes it's very clear people need help. Yes I know you all won't to get home etc etc but so do the observers, section setters and the little few regular same volunteers . You haven't got in the top 3 so no point hanging around ... heard them all.  Again nobody will put their hand up to set them out in the first place . This takes a lot of time and effort and it's these simply things that all riders can do but it always seems to be the same guys that end up doing it. Maybe if more guys had ago maybe bring in some fresh ideas and fresh sections all from different mind sets. You don't need a computer to carry out these basic skills which every rider has who enters these trials. 

[Tony Harrison]

1 hour ago, magpie-twigs said:

Not once can I recall, I might be putting my neck on the line here ,90% of riders don't even bother to help pull the flags up at the end of the trial. It's left to the same observers who stand out in the rain and wind time after time. Does anyone ever offer to help out at the beginning of the trials with signing on riders when sometimes it's very clear people need help. Yes I know you all won't to get home etc etc but so do the observers, section setters and the little few regular same volunteers . You haven't got in the top 3 so no point hanging around ... heard them all.  Again nobody will put their hand up to set them out in the first place . This takes a lot of time and effort and it's these simply things that all riders can do but it always seems to be the same guys that end up doing it.

This is also becoming a problem at some motorcycle trial events.

[TheChai]

I use "we" because I want to get involved and help.

The competition ask for observers when required, no one asks for help with clearing up. I haven't been asked to help set up. You might argue it's initiative or common sense, but simply, we cannot go around expecting things to happen without asking.

Make it all the riders duty to clear up after a comp give yourselves a break. I am sure it would be done, when people are asked politely no one would say no. but if you just expect, then I do not think you can complain when it doesn't happen. Everyone has different expectations and I am sure if riders were told to expect to have to clear up you wouldn't have this problem.

[kevind]

Austrian BIU was run by a Czech club. At the end of a brilliantly organised, well set out trial as usual in Europe. ALL and mean ALL the club members from young to old had a after event team briefing all with their club T shirts on. What was said I don't know but then they ALL set off to disassemble the sections clear up the advertising and take down the gazebos. All 17 sections that were marked and taped. Almost everybody also staid for the presentations. This is just an observation from a great weekend.

Was typing this as Mr Chai, was typing his. Couldn't agree more. We are winning up here and more and more people just turn up and do things before and after and that makes for a better club. I have learnt that you have to ask sometimes, 

Tony it has always been a problem since I started doing trials in 1977!!!

Edited September 9, 2016 by kevind

[Barbara]

35 minutes ago, TheChai said:

 I haven't been asked to help set up

Andrew, could you please be there for 8.30am on Sunday to help me get the signing on tent ready and help with getting people to sign their on-line entry forms?

Could I also have a volunteer please for 9.00am to deal with those who haven't pre-entered?

Edited September 9, 2016 by Barbara
addition

[kevind]

meetings and discussions will and are being had with the people that do the work and a few others that have put there heads up and said we can help. If you havn't offered to help then please do so and then you can be included, and I am sure Mark can easily get a questionnaire for the customers out before Barbara announces the AGM date? This is an open forum lets hear comp riders views on what the future is(has) to be. keep it simple for now. Nothing to do with the bitchin and who does what, just genuine positive comments and requests. Then maybe they can be included in the questionnaire?  LETS GET THIS MOVING BEFORE THE AGM AND TOGETHER WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE? 

[TheChai]

Can you share what tends to be discussed at a agm? And how it is run? Who normally attends? it is probably worth starting a new topic focusing on this. Then forum members can add accordingly. 

As said before happy to help and am genuinely interested in how this progresses. 

[kevind]

The BTF AGM from what I know has no club members, and therefore only has invited clubs with votes at the AGM and other representative parties like sponnsors. If this is not the case then forgive me but that has been the way it has been since I have been attending through the Scottish club. With anybody that holds office within the BTF at the time ie Chairman, secretary, press officer etc  both BIU and UCI coordinators. There is a preliminary agenda sent out to those attending and then we can add other topics that we feel necessary to be discussed.

The day would go as any AGM would, audited accounts are approved, the British championship events are briefly commented on by the organising club and then onto points of discussion. Other various points may be commented on if required. Preliminary dates and venues are set for next years championship. This is all minuted and then sent out for approval after the AGM. 

Mark did a questionnaire last year but was not intended, I believe to be discussed at the AGM. He has correctly said it would be a good idea to get riders and anybody else with an interest to update the questions and reply in time for the AGM. This is perhaps more relevant than ever and if Mark could do the same again for this year then it will help greatly.

Perhaps a new topic as well as the questionaire would help. i will start the new topic.

Its our trials an is to come out of the slump it is in then it is up to as many people to give it something back.

I have just had a long discussion with a press company about trials in Scotland with the intention to get Scottish trials into the national press with the three international riders as the bases of the story. Thanks to one of the riders dads having a company with a press officer, it has given the club and unknown to me a door to raise the profile of trials. More to come.

Edited September 14, 2016 by kevind