Tyke trial...has it any future.

[josh of super Leeds]

Just found out that Tyke trial up at Brimham rock's is now a total no go. I'm also hearing that Barbara is stepping down from the club and that all future events are a very big doubt.

I tried to get some clear views on this but it would appear that the other organiser's seem to be stuck as to what the future is going to be. As the person described this to me as politics and clearly knew the score he was unwilling to divulge on the said politics!

Can anybody shine a light on what's going on?

[BJ.]

I was fairly certain Barbara stepped down about 2/3 years ago when her husband sadly passed, the events where then taken over by Robin Morewood and co. A lot of people stopped riding the comps due to them being slightly narrow minded and throwing accusations among them selves that the sections where set up so younger riders could 'dab' around flags and accused them of cheating etc etc. 

Anyway I believe that the tyke trail scene will die out for a while if I'm honest. The reason being, most of the people who used to compete are now of an age where they work and have other commitments and the younger generation of riders don't drive so struggle to make it to the events. 

[josh of super Leeds]

Barbara has being attending the Tyke trial event's but in what capacity I'm unsure. Kerry Seymour has been running the club but it is said that the Seymour's, Tim McParland and Robin Morewood are all pulling in different directions. Allegedly Robin is wanting to kind of tie it in with a Motorcycle trial club in Derbyshire but this is all hearsay. This is all I know but a bit of clarity on the future would be nice as opposed to the deadly silence coming from the Tyke trial web page.

[isitafox]

The thing about the motorbike club I also heard but that was a few years ago now. The idea behind it would open up more possible venues for comps, allow them to have more dates ie. midweek evening trials with only a few sections as well as at weekends, the funding would be a whole lot better as the admin could be incorporated into a long established system meaning slightly less work and money saved on things like websites and it would possibly bring in a few more riders like those who predominantly ride moto trials but own regular bikes.

I can't see it happening though as the number one problem with the current comp scene is the fact that there's just no interest anymore. I've said it before and I'll say it again, with no backing from British Cycling it's always gonna be a niche sport known by too few. There'll always be trials bikes thanks to Europe and China but I think the UK is going to dwindle down eventually to being a street trials scene with the odd seatless bike for good measure.

 

That may all read as complete bollocks but I know what I mean!

[josh of super Leeds]

Yes that all makes sense as the talk is about just doing the British and Belgium rounds next year. Unfortunately not everybody has a budget large enough to do both of these events so if the local trials do end this would be sad as there is no longer a grassroots club to learn your trade at.

Fingers crossed for this to sort itself out but I better not hold my breath!

[isitafox]

They'll still have to hold some form of event to officially qualify for the worlds but without knowing the ins and outs I don't know how it would be accomplished.

[Mark W]

39 minutes ago, isitafox said:

I can't see it happening though as the number one problem with the current comp scene is the fact that there's just no interest anymore. I've said it before and I'll say it again, with no backing from British Cycling it's always gonna be a niche sport known by too few. There'll always be trials bikes thanks to Europe and China but I think the UK is going to dwindle down eventually to being a street trials scene with the odd seatless bike for good measure.

That's kind of implying that the comp scene makes up the bulk of the participation of trials in the UK, where in reality it's got pretty much nothing to do with it.  Average attendances at the nationals were ~25 last year if memory serves, and you or I could probably name the majority of people going to them off the top of our heads.  However, we could both name many more people who don't compete/have no intention of competing, and who wouldn't be affected by whether are/aren't comps.  I don't think it's much of a route in to trials any more either, what with Youtube/here/social media platforms playing a much bigger role in exposing trials to people.

That said, Tyketrial has been going for a long time so it'd be cool if it kept going.  Not too sure what that guise would be, but it seems like it might be time for riders themselves to get more involved in the behind the scenes aspects of comps if they want to keep them going.  Relying on riders parents is all well and good, but ultimately if people who ride comps want them to go more in the direction they'd like, there's only really one way to do that.  I don't think anyone involved currently in organising them would complain about extra help being offered, in that it's usually a pretty thankless task.

[isitafox]

Sorry the wording is all crap (I really struggle to get into words what's buzzing around in my head). I don't mean to say the comp scene is keeping trials alive in the UK, more that the comp scene has more to do with young riders getting on seatless bikes than social and national media which will always focus on more normal looking bikes. If the comp scene dies then new riders are going to be looking more towards something that resembles a regular bike, I reckon that is why Jitsie have made a seat an option on their new frames.

[kevind]

From the Scottish clubs scene we are on the up, I just run it with more and more help and it has taken the enthusiasm of a new riders Dad to get the numbers up? I posted a while back a post" is comp trials dead", some interesting comments there. The average British champ was around 40+ not 25 which is still not good. But just back from the worlds and there were over 130 entries, and I believe UCI world cups get around the same number? We only do a couple of Tykes a year, but we go to one and Jack C can loose marks and then the next one we go to certain people only loose a couple of marks in Elite which is, I think what the problem is and also a few people running it for their own agendas.  The Scottish is all about just fun within a comp. last event because so many were camping and we had thousands of spectators I opened up the area on the Saturday so everybody could play all day and some new lads got a shot on a seatless bike.Our events will more and more just tie in with other bike events and that gives the riders and helpers/parents something else to have fun at. Last one had bar,food,movies, enduro racing, huge water slide, silent disco and much much more. That in my opinion is the way forward, Look at Tarty bikes event, Radical bikes and Sheffield a couple of years ago all well subscribed. In my opinion two laps of eight sections comps on the side of a hill in the middle of nowhere is dead in this country due to many reasons. But only takes one Dads enthusiasm to turn it around with no personal agenda and some other people to be prepared to give up there time to organise and help at events then we can keep it alive and still produce riders that can ride at world level.

British cycling is a double edged sword, it may or may not help ( after being involved in a few meetings I personally believe they would make it worse) They are by far the most ignorant, arrogant  bad mannered people I have ever met and I am old. Although other counties have pushed and pushed and finally got in with their national body and they have gone on to be better. Standing next to that Hart  (dont know his first name) downhill rider in Andorra last year at the world champs, I overheard him shouting his mouth of to his entourage that what is the point of trials, stupid bike with no seats. With that attitude of other British team members then you know its an overall no chance for trials in Britain. I watch in constant amazement at what the top world riders can do in all disciplines and appreciate the dedication and  hard work.  Now anybody can ride downhill but will never be world champion, but I like to see that little mung even ride a section.

I have been only involved for six+ years while others have many more, but it is the same since I started, same venues and same sections (that's why I left motorcycle trials and I live in Scotland), now is time for change or it will just die, those still involved need to change or  go and let the new (if there is anybody willing) move trials comps into a new arena. Look at the hard work done by the Ackerlys to put on a new age event for the British. Lots more to discuss but I have already been told off for typing to much as people on the forum have no attention span?

Edited August 17, 2016 by kevind

[josh of super Leeds]

Yes I see your point with Jack C at Tyke and I know for fact that people didn't like his domination and everybody knew that the Tyke organiser's had an hidden agenda when it came to him. Click's within click's appears to be the norm now but thankfully I will never swing that way. 

For me Tim McParland appears to be a good bloke with good contacts and a great working knowledge of the sport. For me, I would like to see him have a good crack at it. One thing is for sure I would be more than willing to help out with the workings.

As for the Ackerlys trial! Well that is some amazing stuff in his back yard.

Edited August 17, 2016 by josh of super Leeds
Too much info

[Mark W]

12 minutes ago, josh of super Leeds said:

Click's within click's appears to be the norm now but thankfully I will never swing that way.

From the rest of your post it appears you have already?  Calling someone out but not having enough courage of conviction to say their name, but then saying that someone else would do a better job?  Throughout the comp scene it's always seemed to just be little groups having pops at each other, especially with all that "I heard..." she says/he says stuff.  Can even remember reading stuff about it in MBUKs back in the late 90's - nothing has changed.  There have been a couple of occasions where if people had put aside their differences then things could have been amalgamated and made better, but that never seems to happen...

[josh of super Leeds]

Mark W. I would be interested to know if you have attended any trials up here at Tyke ever but more importantly recently?

Kevin is reading from the same page up in Scotland so there has to be some truth in what is being said. Just going back a few year's ago the turn out was huge but myself I can't put a finger on why the numbers have gone from hero to zero so quickly. Top and bottom of it in my opinion without any politics is that at the core of the local club was Barbara who did a fantastic job. I just feel that the other 3 organisers have too much on their plates with their very talented kids which are in the Brits,Euro's and world rounds so basically the little club comes a lowly fourth. Yes your right about the he said and she say's brigade because they certainly are about but are totally unwilling to put forward their views or offer any kind of help at any level.

[Ali C]

Back when I first started riding Tyke trial (or the Yorkshire Tykes as it was known then) was my first introduction to trials after seeing an article in a magazine. This was before the internet really kicked off and years before any social media came about, going to comps and magazines were the only way to really see what was going on in the trials world or to socialise.

I think trials comps were really handy but these days people can see what's going on as soon as somethings happened, they don't need to wait till the next month to chat with friends like we did. Kids have fewer reasons to want to go to comps these days. Results in comps don't have as much meaning and people don't want to travel to rocky fields.

Barbara did such a great job with all the event work she did even when she had no reason to be there (Chris stopped riding years ago) so it's no surprise she's retiring, it'd be cool if people could take over but it seems that without some drastic changes in locations/rules comp trials is just begining to be old news, trials has evolved alongside social media and taken it on as the new meeting place.

[bing]

The comp scene for me, at 35 years old

I've been there and done it, although I wasn't very good at it, miles better at moto trials 

I've ridden, observed, helped out with marking sections out, at tykes and national level. I've been fairly vocal about my thoughts on comps on various media outlets, and I don't give a monkeys what anybody says, over the last 4/5 years it's been engineered for a group of 6 or 7 riders who shall remain nameless, to suit them and nobody else. And as for the 'strat dabbing', that was very much in effect and very obvious to anybody reasonably in the know.  As long said riders were happy I got the feeling it was screw everybody else. I may be wrong in my viewpoint, but that and along with everybody getting sponsored up to the eyeballs, made it less and less fun for the so called little people, doing it on their own, who'd just come for a good time such as myself and a few others who I've spoke to. And that's why people have stopped riding comps in England in my mind.

 

Barbara has done an epic job over the years that I have known her, without her comp trials in the uk wouldn't exist. Simple as that

Edited August 17, 2016 by bing

[josh of super Leeds]

2 hours ago, Mark W said:

From the rest of your post it appears you have already?  Calling someone out but not having enough courage of conviction to say their name, but then saying that someone else would do a better job?  

Look! My lad wouldn't gain any benefit from been in anyone's camp as he does this just for fun and is nowhere near the top end riders. It was just that when Tim gave a speech at the last round at Ackerly's he basically gave an unveiled quote that the club needs help and looking all but resigned to the fact that it was over. He actually seemed to give a rat's ass.

When my lad said Barbara had finished with the club yesterday i went and saw one of the club members who has very close ties with the Tyke organisers .

I asked him who is going to run the club? His answer was.. you if you want it!

He went through what the score was and more or less said what other's on here are saying.

[kevind]

Interesting points.

Ali C maybe a valid point, but why are the rest of Europe as far as I know still having great numbers?

Bing Yes to all.

Mark from someone in it much longer than I its seems the Tykes may have never changed.

Clicks are natural in any club, I have been involved in many clubs over the years and have been in clicks, even lead some and also been out of the clicks and felt very isolated within the club.(it never ever bothered me except for one diving club I was in but I just left to Join another) One thing in my six years I have never felt isolated in the trials community and I don't know anyone who would disagree with that. But the clicks are usually just a group of personalities that get the most out of the club and usually put the most in.But  I have never seen clubs with individuals that do it just for there own agendas ever, its always for the greater good of the club and people eventually get accepted into the clicks.

I run the Scottish club as a dictator (Joke to those with sensitive souls or no sense of humour) and it seems to be working. Ive made mistakes along the way and i listen and try my best to resolve any issues. (example being Aaron still riding expert as we had no Elite class, a suggestion to have him in Elite to give the older and new expert class riders a chance to win. It was fair suggestion and now Aaron gets bigger sections to push him. I was not happy at first to have to set out another route for one rider, But at a recent bike trial I was at they just put in a couple of extra yellow gates in the red route to harden it up Simple) No one gets priority up here even my own sons no matter what has been said in the past. You want to be better then train harder and practice more like any other sport.

[Mark W]

4 hours ago, josh of super Leeds said:

Mark W. I would be interested to know if you have attended any trials up here at Tyke ever but more importantly recently?

Kevin is reading from the same page up in Scotland so there has to be some truth in what is being said. Just going back a few year's ago the turn out was huge but myself I can't put a finger on why the numbers have gone from hero to zero so quickly. Top and bottom of it in my opinion without any politics is that at the core of the local club was Barbara who did a fantastic job. I just feel that the other 3 organisers have too much on their plates with their very talented kids which are in the Brits,Euro's and world rounds so basically the little club comes a lowly fourth. Yes your right about the he said and she say's brigade because they certainly are about but are totally unwilling to put forward their views or offer any kind of help at any level.

Went to a British round and a Tyketrial round a couple of years ago.  If it makes any difference, I rode comps in 2005 and 2006, and even got temporarily banned from riding in a series so I've had experiences with both sides of the coin.

I can think of a few reasons why things dropped off regionally and nationally, but it doesn't seem like there's any prospect of change on the horizon so it's not really worth going into it all again.

2 hours ago, josh of super Leeds said:

Look! My lad wouldn't gain any benefit from been in anyone's camp as he does this just for fun and is nowhere near the top end riders. It was just that when Tim gave a speech at the last round at Ackerly's he basically gave an unveiled quote that the club needs help and looking all but resigned to the fact that it was over. He actually seemed to give a rat's ass.

When my lad said Barbara had finished with the club yesterday i went and saw one of the club members who has very close ties with the Tyke organisers .

I asked him who is going to run the club? His answer was.. you if you want it!

He went through what the score was and more or less said what other's on here are saying.

You seem to have missed my point.  You were talking about cliques being an issue, but then you basically calling what appeared to be Robin Morewood out but without actually committing to it (and instead just putting forward a relatively bitchy looking post which all but said who it was without actually doing it fully) is doing exactly the same thing.  My comment about the politics in the comp scene not having changed in well over a decade wasn't specifically about the Tyketrial club at all, it was about all the clubs in the UK in general.  You only need to look back to a couple of years ago where there was a split and two generically titled governing bodies sprung up to see that it's much bigger than just a local club issue.  The sniping and infighting in the comp scene has been going on for ages, with people lining up behind who they think is 'right' in any given argument.

This whole thing about preferential treatment for riders is a bit of a weak reed too.  In the past, in person I've seen someone who's involved in the running of the comp scene try making a point that a comp had been deliberately set out to benefit Jack and it had been done by Mick, but Mick had had no involvement in it, and when Jack saw the sections he was disappointed that they were all essentially favouring a left foot forward 26" rider.  The tone/accusation levelled at Mick and Jack didn't reflect that at all, and under scrutiny completely vanished - yet the "he said/she said" thing means that kind of false accusation propagates, especially when people are chatting about things and don't actually name names, but just try and skirt around things being vague/imprecise (despite them basically as good as naming the person they're implicating anyway).  For the riders who are out there pushing themselves a lot, having an 'easy' comp because things are set to favour you doesn't make any sense because when you get to the world stage you're going to get blown out of the water.  If Robin just wanted to set easy sections for Adam, why would they bother going out practising what seems to be every day to some random set of rocks in Derbyshire somewhere?

[kevind]

There is huge history of in the last few years at British and tyke. As I said we don't do many tykes so I can only  see results and what happens at the few events we do but we do do all the British comps. Over the years all the Elites left, because as I have been told that, Jack was so good they couldn't beat him. Seems a bit daft to me, in my competition life if someone beat me then i just practice harder and that was a focus.Some stuck around, but then Andrei beats Jack at Blackpool and he goes home,and  not for the first time. (Mick and Karen did a huge amount of organising and work for the clubs over the years and has made huge personal sacrifices to get Jack to where he is, one of the gentlemen, I have had the pleasure of meeting through trials ). Jack has moved on to another level that nobody can ride at. Blackpool was to easy for him but when I helped set out, I had the rest of the Elites and 50/50 Experts in mind as I do with my own trials. (the majority) As an organiser we need to see the bigger picture and some people do not (Fact) The history has to go and the fact that the British is now organised by clubs in their respective areas is in my opinion helping. I don't need to name names here, as I will discuss face to face as my prefer old man option. 

On a wee point, as an organiser, I didn't even understand about the left right issue until what you talked about happened. Because 1 nobody told me and 2 my lads were not at that level. I do now and sometimes the terrain is against you, but gate width and placement has to be thought about.

[josh of super Leeds]

To be honest you have come to the conclusion even though by your own admission that you haven't been in the comp game for years that Robin and Adam are the ones here to be blamed but your not even close to what has happened. That with Jack C is a different story to what has recently happened altogether.  Now I know who and why are part of the disagreement now and if you read correctly between the lines or asked about you may get the correct story. But I am not going to discuss this any further.

[TheChai]

I liked the topic, but unfortunately the ensuing discussion is digressing! Solutions are needed here, not blaming/bitching..

 

Barbaras stepped down - no one is running tykes for now. 

i think we need to get together to have a serious discussion about how we can put the resources we have to best use, following that, what the organisers of the competition actually want to achieve for the sport in the UK, and have that as a common goal so we are not arguing all the time. 

Get together have a chat I am happy to be involved! But we need key players who can actually make the change. 

[Mark W]

2 hours ago, josh of super Leeds said:

To be honest you have come to the conclusion even though by your own admission that you haven't been in the comp game for years that Robin and Adam are the ones here to be blamed but your not even close to what has happened.

Not attending comps is different to not knowing what's going on with comps.  I used to chat to Ben Swales all the time about what was going on behind the scenes, and regularly spoke to riders at several different levels about it.  Also chatted to Robin about it a lot too.  That was also why I went to the biketrial AGM.

You seem to be again not getting where I was going with my post:  You keep skirting around the issue of who you're talking about, and won't name names but just leave big hints.  Why not just say who you mean?

[Mark W]

9 hours ago, kevind said:

On a wee point, as an organiser, I didn't even understand about the left right issue until what you talked about happened. Because 1 nobody told me and 2 my lads were not at that level. I do now and sometimes the terrain is against you, but gate width and placement has to be thought about.

The left/right/20"/26" perceived bias at comps has been going on for years and years.  As it's usually rider's parents setting comps out, there seems to always be people sniping about who they're setting them out to favour.  That particular example surprised me simply because it's not like Jack needs to have sections set out to favour him, and as we found/heard prefers them to be harder.  You also get it at international level too.  When I was at the Antwerp World Cup there were people complaining about sections favouring Kenny, and it was the same at one of the Worlds from a year or two ago where there were loads of kickers involved.

[Mark W]

1 hour ago, TheChai said:

I think we need to get together to have a serious discussion about how we can put the resources we have to best use, following that, what the organisers of the competition actually want to achieve for the sport in the UK, and have that as a common goal so we are not arguing all the time. 

Get together have a chat I am happy to be involved! But we need key players who can actually make the change. 

Can't remember what the requirements are for going to the AGM, but with the fairly significant change that's being made by Barbara stepping down, and with George being less involved too (from memory?) it would probably benefit everyone if some riders were able to get involved to have their say too.

 

EDIT:  Also, sorry for the triple post, multi quote was raging.

[bing]

5 hours ago, Mark W said:

Can't remember what the requirements are for going to the AGM, but with the fairly significant change that's being made by Barbara stepping down, and with George being less involved too (from memory?) it would probably benefit everyone if some riders were able to get involved to have their say too.

 

EDIT:  Also, sorry for the triple post, multi quote was raging.

As far as I'm aware, you onl have to be a member of one of the organising clubs and that's about it, other than letting them know you will be attending. It's the same at any clubs Agm, you only have to be a member, and as that member you have a right to see how things are being run, as its your money that's being put into it. That's how it works at my local rugby club and working mans club anyway

[Mark W]

Didn't know if they might want to avoid everyone else showing up to rinse the free coffee and buffet there

Main thing though is that it's sort of supposed to be a representative of the individual clubs that go there, chat about what's been proposed then vote on whatever the decisions are.  I guess you could have other people go there but not be able to vote.