EU Referendum

[Mikee]

"May your choices reflect your hopes, not your fears."   - Nelson Mandela

 

The people have spoken and democracy won. We will be governed by the people we elect. We will continue to trade with the whole world. We will get our fishing industry back. We can control (not close) our borders. We can determine our own regulations. We can stay out of affairs that we don't want to be involved in.

 

Lets face it, the EU is not in a good economic state itself. And countries outside the EU are doing very well for themselves.

 

It's going to be rocky for a while, as it is a big change. But I for one am hopeful for the future.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Mikee

[bikeperson45]

9 minutes ago, Mikee said:

"May your choices reflect your hopes, not your fears."   - Nelson Mandela

The people have spoken and democracy won. We will be governed by the people we elect. We will continue to trade with the whole world. We will get our fishing industry back. We can control (not close) our borders. We can determine our own regulations. We can stay out of affairs that we don't want to be involved in.

Lets face it, the EU is not in a good economic state itself. And countries outside the EU are doing very well for themselves.

It's going to be rocky for a while, as it is a big change. But I for one am hopeful for the future.

I'm a remain kind of guy but this is how I'm looking at it now. Still find the whole £350 million issue incredibly dodgy and I judge the group for using it but I'll accept it and hope for the best.

 

Now if we could all redirect our energy at the real issue - identifying Zoot_Alors 

[Mark W]

30 minutes ago, Mikee said:

We will get our fishing industry back.

We had a chance to rectify that shit before, but the UKIP MEPs that people kept inexplicably voting in never bothered attending.  Nigel Farage is especially guilty of this:

"Over the three years that Nigel Farage was a member of the European Parliament Fisheries Committee, he attended one out of 42 meetings. Greenpeace research released today shows that during the three major votes to fix the flaws of the Common Fisheries Policy (CFP), Nigel Farage was in the building but failed to vote in favour of improving the legislation.

  In 2013, Nigel Farage was again present but chose not to vote on the part of the reform of the CFP that introduces an obligation on governments to give more fishing quota to sustainable fishermen who contribute the most to the local, coastal economies. This would see the government giving more fishing quota to local, low impact fishing fleets, such as the fishermen featured in UKIP’s poster."

Also, with Cameron stepping down we're no longer going to be voted by the person we elected are we?  The goalposts have shifted pretty massively now.

@bikeperson45 - the lie worked.  "Ipsos MORI found that 47 per cent of the public believe that the claim, which has been repeatedly criticised by the UK Statistics Authority, is true.  Just 39 per cent realise the figure, which has formed the centerpiece of the Leave campaign, is false, while 14 per cent do not know."

EDIT:  I see this has also given the pricks at the Labour Party a good excuse to kick Corbyn out too.  Biding their time patiently.

I hope Scotland have another referendum.  It'd be pretty rad if Ireland and N.I. go for the united Ireland approach too.  Might as well go the whole hog.

[ooo]

A lot of the economic stuff is relative to other countries though, so it becomes even more unpredictable. How we arrange deals with the EU countries will have an effect but there is also division in the EU (within and between countries) that makes us seem relatively more predictable than if the EU was stable. Plus there are bigger issues coming up in the future with the uncertainty of the USD and oil trade negotiations globally as well as the usual middle east instability.

I think overall its likely that from our new trade deals some will be worse and others better leaving us with no overall change financially. The people of Britain aren't going to get smarter, more inventive, more competitive or work harder so realistically again no real change overall.

[ooo]

 

This is actually the level of people we are dealing with:

http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/24/man-who-voted-for-leave-says-he-thought-his-vote-wouldnt-count-wins-moron-of-the-year-award-5964450/

Wow, a second vote petition:

http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/24/petition-calling-for-a-second-eu-referendum-crashes-because-its-so-popular-5964230/

[jeff costello]

41 minutes ago, ooo said:

 there is also division in the EU (within and between countries) that makes us seem relatively more predictable than if the EU was stable.

not that there aren't other differences, isn't the rift between the mainland and britain (a real political union vs. a more free market only approach) one of major crisis points? with that conflict eased, the brexit could actually leave the EU in a more stable position than before.

[ooo]

24 minutes ago, jeff costello said:

not that there aren't other differences, isn't the rift between the mainland and britain (a real political union vs. a more free market only approach) one of major crisis points? with that conflict eased, the brexit could actually leave the EU in a more stable position than before.

Possibly but I don't think so, there is some kind of dispute (not sure what) between the hungary-poland and germany sides of the EU, and more countries may join. Maybe someone else can explain...

Also there is the whole facist antifacist thing happening across europe.

Edited June 24, 2016 by ooo

[isitafox]

Going back a few posts but surely the drop in the pound is going to help our economy as that means lower prices for our exported goods which you'd assume will lead to a lot more business for engineering firms, pharmaceuticals, the motor industry..... 

[Danny]

I guess thats true but importing the raw materials to make those products would also cost more.

[ooo]

35 minutes ago, isitafox said:

Going back a few posts but surely the drop in the pound is going to help our economy as that means lower prices for our exported goods which you'd assume will lead to a lot more business for engineering firms, pharmaceuticals, the motor industry..... 

yeah some of the guys on the news were saying this, but not sure if it plays out because those industries all require importing crude oil products and metals etc.. so the result from is probably quite small. But a lower pound does mean better share prices in UK companies and property prices for foreign investors but that essentially mean foreigners buying our assets rather than our products.

[Mikee]

1 hour ago, ooo said:

Wow, a second vote petition:

http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/24/petition-calling-for-a-second-eu-referendum-crashes-because-its-so-popular-5964230/

 

With how close the vote was... I imagine this would have been the same response of the leave people if it went the other way. What a waste of time and money it would be to hold it again. On the speculation that the people who didn't vote, might vote if they had a second chance and vote stay. Or that people will change their mind. Ridiculous. The people who wanted to vote did and we have the result.

[Pete.M]

17 minutes ago, Danny said:

I guess thats true but importing the raw materials to make those products would also cost more.

Wonder if Tata Steel could benefit from this. I know they were planning on pulling the plug a while back.

I think I'll set about learning a new language.

[ooo]

Tate and Lyle said they would benefit from exit, because EU trade law prevents them from buying cheaper sugar from non EU countries and they are forced to buy more expensive sugar from EU trade partners. They buy in raw sugar refine it and then sell it globally, they used to be competitive on price but because of EU they aren't. But I'm not sure if anyone knows how many UK businesses are in this situation or the actual value to our economy.

[Mark W]

2 hours ago, isitafox said:

Going back a few posts but surely the drop in the pound is going to help our economy as that means lower prices for our exported goods which you'd assume will lead to a lot more business for engineering firms, pharmaceuticals, the motor industry..... 

That's where the tariffs/duties thing come into play though.  We were one of the countries who set up the tariff system to help protect EU countries from outside countries shafting them, and we've essentially switched sides in that.  That's why the £ weakening loads and our economy going slightly more to shit is less ideal as it means we have less sway when it comes to negotiating.  As a basic example of that, people kept going on about how "We're the 5th biggest economy" so have a lot of sway, yet due to what happened this morning France have now overtaken us.  Our position in the world was never/will never be secure, as that has proved.

[forteh]

2 hours ago, isitafox said:

Going back a few posts but surely the drop in the pound is going to help our economy as that means lower prices for our exported goods which you'd assume will lead to a lot more business for engineering firms, pharmaceuticals, the motor industry..... 

 

1 hour ago, Danny said:

I guess thats true but importing the raw materials to make those products would also cost more.

We import forgings from Romania (simply because there is no longer the skillset/industry in the UK to make them competitively), this morning we paid a bill for the last batch we had and it was £1000 more than it was yesterday.  That's an increase in cost equivalent to 3 additional sets of forgings!

We then have to machine them and supply them to Severn Trent Water.

[tomturd]

4 hours ago, Mark W said:

They didn't get anything wrong?

 

No, they got it absolutely right, I'm just saying they didn't "predict" it, they simply stated the obvious. It doesn't take an economist to say "if you introduce massive uncertainty to your economy, your currency will tank".

Just because they got this "right" (well done to them) doesn't mean they or anyone can accurately predict what will happen in a year let alone 10 years from now.

PS I realise I seem to get on my back foot quite quickly, I don't mean to I'm just rubbish at treading lightly  I am pretty concerned right now.

[tomturd]

2 hours ago, isitafox said:

Going back a few posts but surely the drop in the pound is going to help our economy as that means lower prices for our exported goods which you'd assume will lead to a lot more business for engineering firms, pharmaceuticals, the motor industry..... 

I believe this is why Germany seems to be quite happy to bring countries into the EU with less favourable economies. It keeps the euro low, which is handy if you're exporting a lot out of the euro zone.

[Greetings]

51 minutes ago, tomturd said:

I believe this is why Germany seems to be quite happy to bring countries into the EU with less favourable economies. It keeps the euro low, which is handy if you're exporting a lot out of the euro zone.

That would be true for countries which have adopted the Euro, not those which are in the EU. Less favourable economies are unlikely to adopt the Euro because it requires a stable currency (fluctuations in emerging markets are considerable) and the change would be detrimental to household budgets around the country.

[tomturd]

35 minutes ago, Greetings said:

That would be true for countries which have adopted the Euro, not those which are in the EU. Less favourable economies are unlikely to adopt the Euro because it requires a stable currency (fluctuations in emerging markets are considerable) and the change would be detrimental to household budgets around the country.

Ah, I heard someone saying to Alex Salmond last night that adopting the Euro would be a prerequisite if Scotland wanted to join the EU, so assumed that was the case for every new country that joins. Maybe not then!

[Mark W]

I think that's probably a carry over from the first independence referendum when Westminster were trying to throw as many scare stories at them as possible, culminating in them having to do the equivalent of Cameron offering this EU referendum just before the vote.  Luckily for them, the people in Westminster were able to backtrack instantly on all the extra powers/devolution they promised the morning after the 'No' vote.  I don't think they'll have that luxury next time round.

[Milford Cubicle]

no words

https://www.facebook.com/sunnyhundalorg/videos/1059211847482231/

 

Edited June 24, 2016 by Milford Cubicle

[Tony Harrison]

22 minutes ago, Milford Cubicle said:

no words

https://www.facebook.com/sunnyhundalorg/videos/1059211847482231/

 

Unfortunately a fair proportion of the people in the UK are that stupid, and they had an equal say in things.

[Mark W]

To you German dudes, what kind of regard is "Süddeutsche Zeitung" held in?  Just curious as to where it falls in the spectrum of media in Germany.

[jeff costello]

17 minutes ago, Mark W said:

To you German dudes, what kind of regard is "Süddeutsche Zeitung" held in?  Just curious as to where it falls in the spectrum of media in Germany.

not german, but close enough. süddeutsche falls into the awesome spectrum!  liberal and left-oriented. guardian-ish possibly?

Edited June 24, 2016 by jeff costello

[GavLawson]

1 hour ago, Mark W said:

I think that's probably a carry over from the first independence referendum when Westminster were trying to throw as many scare stories at them as possible, culminating in them having to do the equivalent of Cameron offering this EU referendum just before the vote.  Luckily for them, the people in Westminster were able to backtrack instantly on all the extra powers/devolution they promised the morning after the 'No' vote.  I don't think they'll have that luxury next time round.

 The last Scottish independence referendum was an absolute farce. There were two main reasons to vote for an independent country either you hated the english or you hated the tories for cutting your benefit. 

In Aberdeen where I live, the arse has completely fallen out of oil. The north sea is simply not viable with oil under $50. People are losing jobs, defaulting on their mortgages and signing on. All the SNP can do is blame Westminster. The SNP are only interested in independence. 

I think the public is looking into the Scottish EU vote in the wrong way. In Scotland a nation known for being Pro-EU and Pro-Labour over 1 million people voted to leave. I was expecting something close to 90% remain. 

The last thing Scotland needs right now is more instability. Independence is not a solution. 

 

On a slightly different note. The Scottish referendum divided families, friends and co-workers. It was fought with passion from both sides. you simply couldn't get away from it for months. In Aberdeen at least the EU Ref was shit in comparison. Nobody cares here and the only thing that people seemed to know before the vote was that neither side could be trusted.