Adament A3 advice please

[DeeDougie]

I've posted this in the "is this a good bike" sticky but fear it doesn't get the traffic that the main forum get so my apologies for the second post but I hope somebody sees this one! I have the possibility of buying an Adamant A3 I'll look to get a picture up to aid with your help...

specs are 

Adamant a3 frame 
Magura Louise fron disc brake 
Magura hs33 rear brake (shimano lever) 
Riser bars 
Trialtech cranks 
Echo hubs 
Rockman pads 
Echo headset and stem

However I am not overly sure on the bike itself and it's quality... That only being said as it's not the typical "onza" bikes you see quite regularly on sale websites. Is this bike very old/outdated therefore giving myself a disadvantage at learning trials or is it in fact a bit of a find!?

Would someone mind giving this newbie a bit of help!! Thanks

 

 

Edit: if you could suggest what sort of price range in should be looking at aswell that would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

 

Edited April 27, 2016 by DeeDougie

[ooo]

Some people love those bikes. I wouldn't have thought it would affect you learning as it is modern enough, but that's just my opinion, if you want to get really compy you may want something different. But it would be great for riding trials around town. 

My main concern is "does stuff need replacing ?" because parts add up in price. I would probably pay £150 - 200 depending on condition and desperation to start riding. Whatever you start on you will sell on and get something different if you keep riding, but I think this bike is adequate.

I have a general rule for buying second hand bikes, if the chain is rusty the bearing needs replacing (i.e. hubs, bottom bracket maybe head set will be ). But this bike may have been kept indoors so it will be in better condition.

Also don't get into upgrading bikes that aren't that good to begin with.

 

[DeeDougie]

Thanks a lot for the reply I really appreciate it...

 

So what I'm taking from your opinion is that it's not overly outdated so I should be fine to get out and ride round town with it (I don't have comps in mind at this moment in time) however you wouldn't recommend upgrading to any serious extent as its not a high end bike to begin with...

Thanks again

[CC12345678910]

@DeeDougie

I'm only on a small screen (little 10.1in HP netbook) but on the face of it there's naff all wrong with that bike.

Bike is an a3 as you know, from around 2007, with the the rest of the build from around 2007 also - Echo urban rims, Echo team stem, echo lite forks & the (hens teeth to have a matching pair) old style echo hubs etc date it very well. Trialtech stuff started coming in around 2009ish so it's been built with the intention of being ridden properly and had a bit of coin spent to modernise it a touch along the way, like the kenda smallblock8 front tire, but it's likely been sitting for a couple of years.

Geo from memory was 1030wb,+55bb,362cs, 72deg head angle.

Things to watch for are cracks generally- have a good long look around the dropouts and seatstay welds, around the bb, and at the join of the headtube and downtube. Echo lite forks were never the strongest so check them too - look for tell tale white stress marks around the echo logo, and check all welds meticulously. If it's been run without a brake booster that it is also a concern, the rear brake repeatedly flexing the seatstays promotes stress fractures and ultimately cracks a frame at the seatstay/toptube weld. If you buy it a brake booster is a must, even if does nothing for stiffness at the brake lever you need to tie the brake mounts together. Dents aren't such a worry as it would be in a modern piss thin frame, but still not good.

Personally I would ditch the front brake in favour of an Avid BB5 or BB7 with an Avid SD7 lever, and find a magura lever for the rear brake.

Other than that it is a rare clean example of a frame that was built to be ridden hard, (and were, so got bashed Alot) with a strong spec full of quality old parts, so grab it!

Edited April 27, 2016 by CC12345678910

[AdamAllen]

Really sturdy bike there, from dengs strong as houses era! I rode the 26'' version back in the day, if memory serves me right the A3 was a tad heavy, but all that means is you'll get stronger! its a trials bike. they're all light! it just seems to have gone mad the past few years!

My only concern would be the shimano lever matched up to hs33 pistons  unless its a mod that came out after I quit. either way you can pick up a hs33 lever for very little off here.

 

Go get it bought and ride it hard! 

[DeeDougie]

Wow...that was exactly what I was looking for thanks... As I suggested before this was not a bike I'd seen much of so getting a low down on all parts and mods was great. Hopefully I can agree a price with the seller and get myself on "the street!" 

 

Dougie

[DeeDougie]

Brilliant thanks Adam.. Yes I suppose in hindsight it's going to be light as foook for me anyway as I've ridden DH bikes in the past! All help is appreciated gents

[DeeDougie]

Quick question... Is the rear wheel 19" enabling it to take a larger rear tyre? Just asking as its an older bike and not sure if the 19" rear is a newer thing

[ooo]

 

Quick question... Is the rear wheel 19" enabling it to take a larger rear tyre? Just asking as its an older bike and not sure if the 19" rear is a newer thing

yes the 19" rear allows for a larger tyre volume. This bike has a 19" rear.

[Dave Anscombe]

Really f**king solid bike is the a3...You wont be dissapointed

I went from a koxx xtp to an adamant a3 and improved 10 fold even though it was a little more weighty.

You dont need a brake booster on the a3 they are solid as hell.

1 of only a few bikes that never cracked or gave me problems.......takes quite alot to dent an adamant too

[Tom2015]

Adamant A3 is one of the best frames every made  You won't be disappointed!! 

[DK.]

Buy it. Old school Deng stuff is king. Never ridden an A3 but rode High bb and low BB A1's (stock version) and there awesome.

Most of these stuff on that bike will be bomb proof, echo 07 rims, virtually all the deng stuff.

When you buy it, buy a new chain, re-bleed the brakes, check the bearings etc and just get it running smooth. It's the same principal as buying a second hand car, you will always have to replace components on both bikes and cars, but as long as the heart of it is decent (frame on a bike, engine on a car) your good to go. You know nothing of the history of the bike or how it's been ridden. If you want hassle free and no worry's of replacing things for a while your gonna' have to by brand new (although i don't agree with this anymore as all the new trials stuff in built for lightweight and not strength so it will all be really weak and likely to break more than the old beasty Deng stuff)

In a nut shell though, ideal for learning on. You should of seen what i learnt on haha. Onza t-bird with shit v-brakes and some dicta freewheel with 12 engagement points, this bike would of been a blessing haha.

Get it brought and enjoy it

[aener]

2 hours ago, DK. said:

(although i don't agree with this anymore as all the new trials stuff in built for lightweight and not strength so it will all be really weak and likely to break more than the old beasty Deng stuff)

I refer you to both Mark's and my own post replying to your previous post of this nature.

If you prefer and want to ride old Deng bikes, that's fine. 
If you choose not to use new componentry that is perfectly strong - at least as strong as the parts you're talking about, if not moreso - that's your choice.
If you choose not to believe people who HAVE been riding for the past six or seven years and so have first hand experience with the products rather than - at best - something someone told them about something that happened some time ago, then that's kind of stupid but whatever.
If you try and sell your absolute bullshit as gospel to people - especially apparent newbies - that's a different thing altogether.

I had a set of '06 Echo Lites that snapped in two months.
I had a set of '07 Zoo bars that snapped in three months.
I had both front and rear older Deng hubs that, whilst weighing between two and four times as much as modern hubs, had crunchy bearings almost from new, and the axles snapped which has yet to happen with my Trialtechs after ~3 years.
Deng freehubs were an absolute joke (although not a funny one, at all!), and have you forgotten about that period where Deng riders carried spare wheels on rides because the rims were so shit they didn't expect them to last out the ride?

Come on now.
Yes, some of it was very hardy, but some of it was also terrible.
The same is equally true of the newer stuff.

Leave evangelism to the religious.
...Unless you ARE religious, in which case stop it altogether.
(N.B. The Church of Deng counts as a fringe religion in this case.)

[DK.]

26 minutes ago, aener said:

I refer you to both Mark's and my own post replying to your previous post of this nature.

If you prefer and want to ride old Deng bikes, that's fine. 
If you choose not to use new componentry that is perfectly strong - at least as strong as the parts you're talking about, if not moreso - that's your choice.
If you choose not to believe people who HAVE been riding for the past six or seven years and so have first hand experience with the products rather than - at best - something someone told them about something that happened some time ago, then that's kind of stupid but whatever.
If you try and sell your absolute bullshit as gospel to people - especially apparent newbies - that's a different thing altogether.

I had a set of '06 Echo Lites that snapped in two months.
I had a set of '07 Zoo bars that snapped in three months.
I had both front and rear older Deng hubs that, whilst weighing between two and four times as much as modern hubs, had crunchy bearings almost from new, and the axles snapped which has yet to happen with my Trialtechs after ~3 years.
Deng freehubs were an absolute joke (although not a funny one, at all!), and have you forgotten about that period where Deng riders carried spare wheels on rides because the rims were so shit they didn't expect them to last out the ride?

Come on now.
Yes, some of it was very hardy, but some of it was also terrible.
The same is equally true of the newer stuff.

Leave evangelism to the religious.
...Unless you ARE religious, in which case stop it altogether.
(N.B. The Church of Deng counts as a fringe religion in this case.)

Before I start. Do you really think your opinion is fair?  A - you work for tarty so will obviously try and sell products and B - your sponsored by everyone, so your on commission to say this stuff so your opinion isn't fair?  

I may not have been riding for a few years but I still speak to people who have been. I didn't say everything Deng made was God like, but his frames have always been bullet proof, 06 zoo forks amazing. Echo Tr and echo 07 rims were amazing, 03/04 zoo bars, headsets, external bb's, cranks. In terms of his free hubs, who would run anything apart from a king rear hub on a stock or a pro 2 or a reputable freewheel on a mod?  the clue was in the name with your snapped echo lite forks. LITE, like the new echo sl forks, awful. Urbans took a turn for the worst in 07 and only got worse.

I did ride until mid 2010 and things did start to take a fall then, even dents products became disappointing. Trialtech came to the rescue with there rims and awesome geo bars and stems along with there really good cranks and there forks were crazy good. But they don't even sell half of it now?  The undrilled double wall rear rim was amazing. The forks. 

Now all I find is single wall rear rims, I don't care what yoh say, tgs on single wall rear rims are not gonna stand up to the drop gaps, I've tried single wall rear rims and destroyed them in days. 

When I say Dengcomponents. I generally always used hope or king for hubs and tensile or eno for freewheels. Tyres maxis but for frames, forks, cranks, bars. Pre 2007 he was untouchable. I don't care about weight, I'm 14St 6 and strong do its irrelevant. I just want it to last,

Problem with trials is they change everything that works. 2004 maguras are still the best to this day. I killed 5 sets of 05 new shape maggys in 12 months, they just crack and everyone has told me these new maguras are even worse. 

[aener]

...I don't work at Tarty, and I'm not sponsored by "everyone". The people I am sponsored by certainly haven't got me on commission  
I used the Trialtech hubs as an example because they're just empirically good. I could equally have mentioned the Hashtagg rims/forks, or Monty M5, but I don't have first hand experience with them, so I didn't - much along the lines of what I was saying to you.

The Lites weren't light. They were heavier than other forks of the time, and considerably heavier than the forks of today.
[Edit: I should mention that I also snapped some Pitbulls quicker than the shortest-lived pair of forks I've had in the past five years.]
Maguras aren't designed for trials to start with, so it's basically fair enough that they don't take trials' need into account that much - and even then, most people seem to use the new models without too many problems. It's just the people who have problems (or people who have been told by others who have had problems) are very vocal about those instances. That said - wasn't there a clip of you breaking an '04 just recently?  
Bersha uses singlewall rims, and he's way up in the ranks of TGS. Neil Tunicliffe's on singlewall rims too, as well as carbon bars and forks.

I'm under no illusion you'll stop "being you", but it'd be beneficial for everyone if you just toned it down a bit. Try saying "Glory to TGS, I love it" rather than "TGS is the only way. Die, compy infidel."

I don't really care what YOU think, but I do care that you're spreading misinformation, which skews perspectives of newcomers to the sport.

I'm a fan of long-lasting parts too. It's great that weight doesn't matter to you, but you need to bear in mind that most people aren't blessed with your 14st6 worth of raw power.
A bike under 10kg can make a big difference for them. It could also make a difference to you, though I guess you won't find out.

Edited May 20, 2016 by aener

[Mark W]

On 20/05/2016 at 2:39 PM, DK. said:

Urbans took a turn for the worst in 07 and only got worse.

That's not really the case.  The '09s were still good, there was the 2011 or 2012 ones which had the slightly thinner steerer that were a touch questionable but since then they've been getting better and better.  They've got one of the thickest steerer tubes on the market, the legs are good, the disc mounts have a decent length to them so they're not just going to rip through the legs and the dropouts are fine (and are even better now they're a complete forged setup).

For brake levers, ground '05 bodies worked fine, but the new Tensile levers seem to work well (as long as they get the required machining/fix done to them before they leave the shop, otherwise they won't), people have said the Hashtagg levers work well (which is unsurprising as they're extremely close to the Tensile lever and use decent seals) and so on.

There's plenty of good stuff out there now, especially freewheels.  My Tensile freewheel was OK but not amazing, and the Enos I had were a load of ball ache the whole time (lockrings coming loose, pawls chipping, bearings oozing grease into the ratchet, etc.).  Jitsie freewheels seem really reliable, and everyone else (e.g. RockMan, Bonz) who use that catalogue style 108.9 freewheel are running upgraded springs now so they're pretty boss too.  Same is true for bars, hubs, stems, etc.

Specifically regarding this bike, the frame would be fine and should last pretty well.  Only elephant in the room is that random Shimano disc lever on the rear brake - it would work, but replacing a lever isn't a particularly cheap thing to do so could end up adding a bit of cost to the bike pretty much straight away.

[ben_travis]

Jesus, Mark, you work for tarty, you're on commission from your sponsors, do you really think your opinion is fair?

 

My opinion on this bike is the same as this:

18 hours ago, Mark W said:

Specifically regarding this bike, the frame would be fine and should last pretty well.  Only elephant in the room is that random Shimano disc lever on the rear brake - it would work, but replacing a lever isn't a particularly cheap thing to do so could end up adding a bit of cost to the bike pretty much straight away.

 

[ogre]

#devilsadvocate I watched danny kearns loving modern SL bikes today, the high bb confused his lovely northern ethics but he'll be knee deep in carbon and SL parts faster than you can say overdraft limit

[DK.]

7 hours ago, ogre said:

#devilsadvocate I watched danny kearns loving modern SL bikes today, the high bb confused his lovely northern ethics but he'll be knee deep in carbon and SL parts faster than you can say overdraft limit

This is a lie. Every word 

[ooo]

@DeeDougie did you end up getting a bike dude ?

[DYAKOV]

Hi dude,
I started reading through the comments but they were getting more and more massive as I scrolled down, so apologies if I'm saying something twice!

I had an A3 frame for a bit and it was okay but nothing special. First of all, if you are looking for a lifetime frame, then go for this one - it will never crack! Presuming it's one of the older models it's a bit heavier too (thick U6 aluminium tubing). Other than that, the integrated booster actually worked (I think) which nowadays is built almost for decoration purposes only. The bb was mid height which made it more universal for streety lines along with the pure trialsy stuff.
What I didn't like the most was how long it felt! I am 172cm tall and although I was riding with almost flat bars (the old zoo low risers) it really felt like a stock with bent forks and 20" wheels. It's not just the wheelbase being long but the chainstay was 360 as far as I remember.
In general, if this will be a first bike I'd say buy it depending on condition and price, suggesting price around £200-£220? You can always upgrade parts once you find out for yourself what feels comfy and what needs got rid of