Chainring advice

[lankyri]

Morning all bit confused really on what I can and can't run.

Current set up is a race face ride xc crank triple speed. My middle chainring is shark fined pretty badly so I need a new one asap I know that I can't use a narrow wide ring without using a clutch mech or chain device so I wanna keep the triple ring set up for the time being but can I use and middle chainring as long as it's 104bcd was looking around last night and people using a shimano deore saying they had to file out the holes.

I just want to ride please help  

[forteh]

2 hours ago, lankyri said:

...I know that I can't use a narrow wide ring without using a clutch mech or chain device ...

Yes you can.  I rode for a full year on my wolftooth narrow-wide and no clutch mech or chain device, the only chain drop I suffered was after an OTB into a tree which isn't a problem :)

[lankyri]

So do I take the chance though most of the time the bikes a commuting bike and will any narrow wide chainring fit my race face ride xc crank 

[forteh]

It will be fine, mine went through the roughest braking bumps at cannock chase without ever dropping.  If you're going to be doing any really rough or long descents it might be worth picking up a small upper guide when you can.

I don't know what size your chainrings are, just measure the bolt circle and order one to suit, I think the current standard is 104mm.

[lankyri]

22,32,44 44 is a bit too heavy and 32 bit light so maybe a 36 is the way forward 

[forteh]

Sounds about right, I've been singlering with 32t for 20 years now so can't comment on other ratios; a 36t sounds about right though.  You will ultimately have to make a compromise between climbing and top speed.

[lankyri]

Climbs I'll just get off and walk lol prefer speed due to alot of the time on the road.  

Am I right in thinking most narrow wide rings fit all cranks as long as it's the same bcd and same amount of holes obviously and if I can get the right amount of chain I MAY NOT NEED a clutch mech or chain guide 

Total newbie but I'm flooding more and more money into the bike and don't want to for a while 

[forteh]

I think maybe even go up to a 38t if you're doing a lot of road work.  Find a middle ring climb you can manage without too much hassle, find out what ratio you use for it (eg 32:26 = 1.23:1) and then do the same again with the equivalent of +4t on the ring up front (36:26 = 1.38:1 so use 44:32 - probably big ring/big sprocket) and see how you get on.  If you find it easy still with the additional load then perhaps repeat the exercise with the equivalent of the 38t up front.

Not sure if that makes sense, I've just spent 3 hours calculating the following solidworks equations to automate the length of a multiple section pipe within the constraints of available material, manufacturing processes and design so my head is a little fried

 

"Volume m^3"= "SW-Volume" / 1000000000'Volume in m^3
"Mass Kg"= "SW-Mass" / 1000'Mass in Kg
"Volume m^3"= "SW-Volume" / 1000000000'Volume in m^3
"Mass Kg"= "SW-Mass" / 1000'Mass in Kg
"Filter Bed Diamter"= "ØFilter Bed @Filter Bed Layout Sketch"
"Tank Dimension Across Flanges"= "ØTank Across Flanges@Filter Bed Layout Sketch"
"End Cap Clearance"= "End Cap Clearance@Filter Bed Layout Sketch"
"Arm Assembly Length"= ( "Filter Bed Diamter" - "Tank Dimension Across Flanges" - ( "End Cap Clearance" * 2 ) ) / 2
"Arm Section Length"= 6250'Use 6250 as a maximum to allow for laser cutting of weir box holes
"No. Full Pipe Section Lengths"= int ( "Arm Assembly Length" / "Arm Section Length" )
"Initial End Section Length"= "Arm Assembly Length" - ( "Arm Section Length" * "No. Full Pipe Section Lengths" )
"Test Condition Pipe Section 1 Length"= IIF ( "Initial End Section Length" < 800 , "Arm Section Length" - 500 , "Arm Section Length" )
"Final End Section Length"= ( "Arm Assembly Length" - ( "Final Pipe Section 1 Length" * "No. Full Pipe Section Lengths" ) - "Total Gasket Dimension" ) - ( "No. Flanged Joints" * 10 ) + 5'+5 for end section weld gap
"D1@Sketch1@Pipe Section 3^CP-D-029<1>.Part" = "Final End Section Length"
"Final Pipe Section 1 Length"= IIF ( "Arm Assembly Length" < "Arm Section Length" , "Arm Assembly Length" , "Test Condition Pipe Section 1 Length" )
"Final Pipe Section 2 Length"= iif ( "Arm Assembly Length" < "Arm Section Length" * 2 , "Arm Assembly Length" - "Final Pipe Section 1 Length" - "Total Gasket Dimension" - 15 , "Final Pipe Section 1 Length" )'-15 for flange weld gap
"Joint 3 Bolts"= IIF ( "Arm Assembly Length" < "Arm Section Length" * 2 , "suppressed" , "unsuppressed" )
"Joint 3 Nuts"= IIF ( "Arm Assembly Length" < "Arm Section Length" * 2 , "suppressed" , "unsuppressed" )
"Joint 3 Washers"= IIF ( "Arm Assembly Length" < "Arm Section Length" * 2 , "suppressed" , "unsuppressed" )
"Joint 2 Bolts"= IIF ( "Arm Assembly Length" < "Arm Section Length" , "suppressed" , "unsuppressed" )
"Joint 2 Nuts"= IIF ( "Arm Assembly Length" < "Arm Section Length" , "suppressed" , "unsuppressed" )
"Joint 2 Washers"= IIF ( "Arm Assembly Length" < "Arm Section Length" , "suppressed" , "unsuppressed" )
"No. Rope Lugs"= int ( "Arm Assembly Length" / "Final Rope Lug Spacing" )'Number of vertical ropes required
"Initial Rope Lug Spacing"= ( ( ( "Arm Assembly Length" * 1.2 ) - "Distance to first Vertical Rope Lug" ) / "No. Rope Lugs" )'Equal spacing for vertical rope lugs
"Distance to first Vertical Rope Lug"= ( "First Weir Box Gap Pipe Section 1" + ( 2 * "Weir Box Spacing" ) ) - 255'Distance from tank end of arm
"D1@Vertical Rope Lug Pattern"="No. Rope Lugs"
"D3@Vertical Rope Lug Pattern"="Final Rope Lug Spacing"
"D3@Horizontal Rope Lug Pattern"="Final Rope Lug Spacing"
"D1@Horizontal Rope Lug Pattern"="No. Rope Lugs"
"No. Flanged Joints"= "No. Full Pipe Section Lengths" + 1
"Total Gasket Dimension"= ( "No. Flanged Joints" * 2 ) * 3'Total Gasket thickness to be removed from arm length
"Final Rope Lug Spacing"= 3 * "Weir Box Spacing"'Rope lug spacing rounded to nearest 10mm
"BSTD Slip On Plate Flange<6>.Part"= IIF ( "Arm Assembly Length" < "Arm Section Length" * 2 , "suppressed" , "unsuppressed" )
"BSTD Slip On Plate Flange<5>.Part"= IIF ( "Arm Assembly Length" < "Arm Section Length" * 2 , "suppressed" , "unsuppressed" )
"BSTD Slip On Plate Flange<4>.Part"= IIF ( "Arm Assembly Length" < "Arm Section Length" , "suppressed" , "unsuppressed" )
"BSTD Slip On Plate Flange<3>.Part"= IIF ( "Arm Assembly Length" < "Arm Section Length" , "suppressed" , "unsuppressed" )
"Half Face Joint Washer<9>.Part"= IIF ( "Arm Assembly Length" < "Arm Section Length" * 2 , "suppressed" , "unsuppressed" )
"Half Face Joint Washer<8>.Part"= IIF ( "Arm Assembly Length" < "Arm Section Length" * 2 , "suppressed" , "unsuppressed" )
"Half Face Joint Washer<6>.Part"= IIF ( "Arm Assembly Length" < "Arm Section Length" , "suppressed" , "unsuppressed" )
"Half Face Joint Washer<5>.Part"= IIF ( "Arm Assembly Length" < "Arm Section Length" , "suppressed" , "unsuppressed" )
"D1@Vertical Rope Lug Pattern"="No. Rope Lugs"
"Distance to first Horizontal Rope Lug"= "Distance to first Vertical Rope Lug" + "Final Rope Lug Spacing"
"D1@Distance7"="Distance to first Horizontal Rope Lug"
"Joint 3 Fixings Pattern"= iif ( "Arm Assembly Length" < "Arm Section Length" * 2 , "suppressed" , "unsuppressed" )
"Joint 2 Fixings Pattern"= iif ( "Arm Assembly Length" < "Arm Section Length" , "suppressed" , "unsuppressed" )
"Pipe Section 3^CP-D-029<1>.Part"= iif ( "Arm Assembly Length" < "Arm Section Length" * 2 ,  suppressed  ,  unsuppressed  ) 
"Pipe Section 2^CP-D-029<1>.Part"= iif ( "Arm Assembly Length" < "Arm Section Length" ,  suppressed  ,  unsuppressed  ) 
"Centre Well OD"= "Centre Well OD@Filter Bed Layout Sketch"
"First Upward Flow Box@Filter Bed Layout Sketch"=IIF ( "Centre Well OD@Filter Bed Layout Sketch" > "Tank Dimension Across Flanges" , ( "Centre Well OD" / 2 ) + 1106 , ( "Tank Dimension Across Flanges" / 2 ) + 1106 )
"D1@Upward Flow Box Hole Pattern" = "Arm Assembly Length" / 1020
"First Upward Flow Box@Filter Bed Layout Sketch"=IIF ( "Centre Well OD@Filter Bed Layout Sketch" > "Tank Dimension Across Flanges" , ( "Centre Well OD" / 2 ) + 596 , ( "Tank Dimension Across Flanges" / 2 ) + 596 )
"D1@Sketch4" = iif ( "DN@Outside Diameter of Flange@BSTD Slip On Plate Flange<1>.Part" > 95 , 80 , 70 ) 
"First Weir Box Gap Pipe Section 1"= IIF ( "Centre Well OD" > "Tank Dimension Across Flanges" , "Centre Well OD" / 2 + 596 , "Tank Dimension Across Flanges" / 2 + 596 )'Centre of machine to inner weir box
"D1@Distance6"="Distance to first Vertical Rope Lug"
"D1@Horizontal Rope Lug Pattern"="No. Rope Lugs"-1
"Weir Box Spacing"= 1020
"D3@Vertical Rope Lug Pattern"="Final Rope Lug Spacing"
"D3@Horizontal Rope Lug Pattern"="Final Rope Lug Spacing"
"No. Weir Boxes Pipe Section 1"= int ( IIF ( "Centre Well OD" > "Tank Dimension Across Flanges" , ( "Arm Section Length" - ( "First Weir Box Gap Pipe Section 1" - "Centre Well OD" / 2 ) ) / "Weir Box Spacing" , "Arm Section Length" / "Weir Box Spacing" ) )
"Pipe Section 1 Initial Length - Type1"= IIF ( "Centre Well OD" > "Tank Dimension Across Flanges" , "First Weir Box Gap Pipe Section 1" - ( "Centre Well OD" / 2 ) - 6 + "Weir Box Spacing" * "No. Weir Boxes Pipe Section 1" - 255 , "First Weir Box Gap Pipe Section 1" - ( "Tank Dimension Across Flanges" / 2 ) - 6 + "Weir Box Spacing" * "No. Weir Boxes Pipe Section 1" - 510 )'Type 1 Arm
"Pipe Section 1 Initial Length - Type2"= IIF ( "Centre Well OD" > "Tank Dimension Across Flanges" , "First Weir Box Gap Pipe Section 1" - ( "Centre Well OD" / 2 ) - 6 + "Weir Box Spacing" * "No. Weir Boxes Pipe Section 1" - 765 , "First Weir Box Gap Pipe Section 1" - ( "Tank Dimension Across Flanges" / 2 ) - 6 + "Weir Box Spacing" * "No. Weir Boxes Pipe Section 1" - 1020 )'Type 2 Arm
"D1@Sketch1@Pipe Section 1^CP-D-029<2>.Part" = "Pipe Section 1 Final Length - Type1"
"D1@Sketch1@Pipe Section 1^CP-D-029<2>.Part" = "Pipe Section 1 Final Length - Type2"
"Pipe Section 1 Final Length - Type1"= IIF ( "Centre Well OD" > 3000 , "Pipe Section 1 Initial Length - Type1" + ( "Centre Well OD" - 2490 ) , IIF ( "Centre Well OD" > 2350 , "Pipe Section 1 Initial Length - Type1" + ( "Centre Well OD" - 2100 ) , "Pipe Section 1 Initial Length - Type1" ) )
"Pipe Section 1 Final Length - Type2"= IIF ( "Centre Well OD" > 3000 , "Pipe Section 1 Initial Length - Type2" + ( "Centre Well OD" - 2490 ) , IIF ( "Centre Well OD" > 2350 , "Pipe Section 1 Initial Length - Type2" + ( "Centre Well OD" - 2100 ) , "Pipe Section 1 Initial Length - Type2" ) )
"D1@Sketch1@Pipe Section 2^CP-D-029<1>.Part" = "Pipe Section 2 Final Length - Type1"
"First Weir Box Gap Pipe Section 2"= ( ROUND ( ( ( ( "First Weir Box Gap Pipe Section 1" + ( "No. Weir Boxes Pipe Section 1" * "Weir Box Spacing" ) ) - ( ( "Tank Dimension Across Flanges" / 2 ) + 6 + 10 + "Pipe Section 1 Final Length - Type1" + 6 ) ) / 5 ) , 0 ) ) * 5'= ( ROUND ( ( "D1@Sketch1" / 5 ) , 0 ) ) * 5
"No. Weir Boxes Pipe Section 2"= int ( ( "Arm Section Length" - "First Weir Box Gap Pipe Section 2" ) / "Weir Box Spacing" )
"Pipe Section 2 Initial Length - Type1"= "First Weir Box Gap Pipe Section 2" + ( "No. Weir Boxes Pipe Section 2" * "Weir Box Spacing" ) + 510
"Pipe Section 2 Initial Length - Type2"= 500
"Pipe Section 2 Final Length - Type1"= IIF ( "Pipe Section 2 Initial Length - Type1" > 6200 , ( "First Weir Box Gap Pipe Section 2" + ( ( "No. Weir Boxes Pipe Section 2" - 1 ) * "Weir Box Spacing" ) + 510 ) , ( "First Weir Box Gap Pipe Section 2" + ( "No. Weir Boxes Pipe Section 2" * "Weir Box Spacing" ) + 510 ) )
"Pipe Section 2 Final Length - Type2"= 500
"D1@Sketch1@Pipe Section 2^CP-D-029<1>.Part"="Pipe Section 2 Final Length - Type1"
"Pipe Section 3 Length"= ( ( "Filter Bed Diamter" / 2 ) - "End Cap Clearance" ) - ( "Tank Dimension Across Flanges" / 2 ) - "Pipe Section 1 Final Length - Type1" - "Pipe Section 2 Final Length - Type1"

If you can understand that lot, do you fancy a job?

As long as the bcd and number of bolts is correct then yes it will fit

As far as I'm aware 4 bolt spiders only come in 104mm bcd, I'm happy to be corrected though!

Edited November 17, 2015 by forteh

[lankyri]

Errrrrrr read it but none of it sank in just going off my theory of 32 I can spin out on road so 4+ teeth equals I'd use more of the gears rather than 6,7,8