darkness Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Hello, trials-forum. I bought some used green inspired 4play (frame has disc and 4-bolt mounts) but my brakes (bb7) are really bad in terms of bite and hold, and also they're slips pretty often. And as far as I have some extra money to upgrade my bike I want to ask you guys: what brakes to choose? After reading many posts on here and on some MTB forums and also after looking at prices from my local bike shops I've found this variants: 1) Hope TrialZone front braided + Hope V4 rear braided (they don't have rear TZ) for 370 USD w/o rotors. 2) Saints M820 front+rear for 295 USD w/o rotors. 3) ZEEs front+rear for 235 USD w/o rotors 4) SLX front+rear 113 USD w/o rotors 5) XT front+rear 150 USD w/o rotors So I have no idea what would be the best. And also I have no idea about rotors. I can buy: 1) Shimano RT86 XT 203 pair for 98 USD. 2) Shimano RT76 XT 203 pair for 77 USD. Or any other from bike-discount.de/CRC. And one more thing, on MTB forums there are many people telling that "HOPE brakes can't into braking" and that SLX (2 pot 22mm) has more power than M4/E4 (4 pot 16mm), and that SHIMANO>HOPE in terms of braking power. P.S. I'll use only standard pads. P.S.S. How bad would work shimano rotors with hope brakes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ Leigh Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 literally just buy a brake and use it. done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogre Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 bb7s are actually mint, did you buy the bike 2nd hand? if you get them serviced and replace the pads/rotors you should be fine. i've ditched a pair of hopes in favour of avid mechanical brakes and i'm quite a heavy rider... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niconj Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 BB7s should do the trick if you're on a tight budget (they actually work very well) As for the Rotors... get the normal SLX RT66 ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbertlemon102 Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Or take your brakes off, it's good fun 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkness Posted July 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 bb7s are actually mint, did you buy the bike 2nd hand? if you get them serviced and replace the pads/rotors you should be fine. i've ditched a pair of hopes in favour of avid mechanical brakes and i'm quite a heavy rider... What setup are you using(rotors/pads/levers/cables)? My BB7s working like shiiii... though they're in mint condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogre Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) i'm using these rotors, deore brake levers and cables; they're great because the levers are split clamp and the cables are nice quality and come with the levers. I've been using the standard pads but i have popped a pair of jitsie ones on the rear caliper to see if it adds to the awesome, i can't honestly tell the difference between pads*, they still occasionally slip out when i ask too much of the bike and it'll roll backwards, but any magura or other disc would do the same in this situation. they're absurdly predictable and reliable in all other instances. *i have previously run hopes and when i upgraded to jitsie pads i noticed a significant difference in the performance so i can't really work this out. as i've gone through the bed in phase with the pads. another point to add is that it's worth taking your time to set up a bb7 properly; buy some brand new vee brake pads and steal the domed washers and re build the set up around the bb7, if possible have a play to maximise the pad contact on the rotor. when you do new cables don't feel obliged to use all of the cable routing points on the frame; allow the cables to make nice wide looping arcs from the levers; tight turns will make the brake feel like shit. use high quality cable cutters not the shitty rusty snips that have been blighting your tool box for all these years. For extra anal points you can take your cable outer and push the end into a grinding disc so that the ends are ground completely flat so the cable butts up nicely into the lever/caliper. lubricate your outers gt85 is perfectly adequate. remember to aim the hosing well away from your brakes so you don't contaminate them. you could probably use chain lube too. replace your inners regularly; they're strong as f**k but it's nice knowing that they're fresh and unlikely to fail. plus you can relube your cables when you fit new inners when it comes to setting up the bb7 itself theres no end of guides but the main thing is that the rotor shouldn't move much/at all when you pull like f**k on the brake lever, it should be flirting with the fixed pad most of the time. it's tricky to balance rolling resistance with nice brake feels but it's worth the fannying around. ugh essay over. Edited July 22, 2015 by ogre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dk2 Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 saint all the way, or zee...superb hold..as far as the rotor in using shimano xt ice, i find the rotor not be as important as the caliper... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niconj Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 tight turns will make the brake feel like shit. Long outers as well. For extra anal points you can take your cable outer and push the end into a grinding disc so that the ends are ground completely flat so the cable butts up nicely into the lever/caliper. +1 lubricate your outers never had the need to do this using Jagwire Ripcord or Odyssey Linear Slick cables. ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkness Posted July 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) I don't get one thing about BB7. If they're so good why no one (except of few riders) using them? I like "ascetic" and simple, but working well mechanisms, and we almost don't need any modulation in street-trials, but why top riders using only hydro brakes? As far as I'm not so good in trials and love huge gaps to rear I need best brakes ever, because I trust my life to them. i'm using these rotors, deore brake levers and cables; they're great because the levers are split clamp and the cables are nice quality and come with the levers. I've been using the standard pads but i have popped a pair of jitsie ones on the rear caliper to see if it adds to the awesome, i can't honestly tell the difference between pads*, they still occasionally slip out when i ask too much of the bike and it'll roll backwards, but any magura or other disc would do the same in this situation. they're absurdly predictable and reliable in all other instances. *i have previously run hopes and when i upgraded to jitsie pads i noticed a significant difference in the performance so i can't really work this out. as i've gone through the bed in phase with the pads. another point to add is that it's worth taking your time to set up a bb7 properly; buy some brand new vee brake pads and steal the domed washers and re build the set up around the bb7, if possible have a play to maximise the pad contact on the rotor. when you do new cables don't feel obliged to use all of the cable routing points on the frame; allow the cables to make nice wide looping arcs from the levers; tight turns will make the brake feel like shit. use high quality cable cutters not the shitty rusty snips that have been blighting your tool box for all these years. For extra anal points you can take your cable outer and push the end into a grinding disc so that the ends are ground completely flat so the cable butts up nicely into the lever/caliper. lubricate your outers gt85 is perfectly adequate. remember to aim the hosing well away from your brakes so you don't contaminate them. you could probably use chain lube too. replace your inners regularly; they're strong as f**k but it's nice knowing that they're fresh and unlikely to fail. plus you can relube your cables when you fit new inners when it comes to setting up the bb7 itself theres no end of guides but the main thing is that the rotor shouldn't move much/at all when you pull like f**k on the brake lever, it should be flirting with the fixed pad most of the time. it's tricky to balance rolling resistance with nice brake feels but it's worth the fannying around. ugh essay over. Thank you for detailed reply. What hopes you're talking about in your comparsion? Edited July 23, 2015 by darkness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnthebiker Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 I don't get one thing about BB7. If they're so good why no one (except of few riders) using them? I like "ascetic" and simple, but working well mechanisms, and we almost don't need any modulation in street-trials, but why top riders using only hydro brakes? As far as I'm not so good in trials and love huge gaps to rear I need best brakes ever, because I trust my life to them. Thank you for detailed reply. What hopes you're talking about in your comparsion? I would guess people don't use them just because "oh, they're mechanical, hydraulic sounds fancy, it must be better". Or they might have a good reason, but I can't think of one(feel might be one though). I've never felt a brake that was better than my bb7, except maybe the same exact brake with an avid ultimate lever haha. Make sure you get odyssey linear slic cable and jitsie pads, they're both great. Finally, if you don't already have sd7 levers, get some. They're cheap and awesome. Just my opinion, you should take into account that I'm young and lightweight, and don't have much experience. Good luck with whatever you get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niconj Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 I don't get one thing about BB7. If they're so good why no one (except of few riders) using them? They weigh around 150gr. more each brake compared to the Hope Trialzone with Tech 3 Lever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkness Posted July 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 They weigh around 150gr. more each brake compared to the Hope Trialzone with Tech 3 Lever. But in street-trials weight doesn't matter as much as in "pure" trials? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogre Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 not many bb7s used by the decent lads cause the majority of 'good' riders are on stocks and tend to go for dual mags; if you can get the set up right maguras can be as good as discs; and substantially lighter. the other benefit of rim brakes is they're harder to damage; i ruined a rotor last week when i cocked up a gap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niconj Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) But in street-trials weight doesn't matter as much as in "pure" trials? Not for the good riders no... And some Magura MT8 or Hope Tech whatever have more bling. Edited July 23, 2015 by niconj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkness Posted July 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) Well, I like BB7 and I can set it up accurately, my setup is: FR5 levers Odyssey linear cables Echo TR 180 rotors Standard pads And I've bedded them in (few weeks). But still hold and bite are disgusting. I can't trust my brakes even 1.5m gap to rear. Maybe this is unlucky combination of rotors+pads? The thing is I don't have much time and desire for all this.. I just want the best and 100% working setup (even if it would be expensive), this is why I'm asking what I'm asking. ____ I have some expirience (FR bike) with: Hope M4 / 180 and 203 - complaints of riders about bad braking power seems to be real, because you can't even block front wheel at low speed by one finger. Hope V4 / 180 and 203 - I think it may be good enough for street-trials but only with 203mm rotor. Seems to work better than M4, especially with Tech 3 lever. If I'll choose hydro I already have one rear V4 and may buy one more (or TrialZone). Or go for shimano? People praise them pretty much (most of the people I've asked said that SLX=V4 by braking power). Yep, hopes are fancy but I don't care about it, I just want reliable and powerful brake that I can trust. If BB7 can do the work I'll choose them, but I can't get why mine doesn't work well. *I'm also have an experience of using BB5(standard)/180 (with some avid rotor) and they was way better than my current BB7s. **Pads and rotors (front and rear at the same time ?) can't be contaminated because they was the only thing that is brand new on that 4play. Edited July 23, 2015 by darkness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Switch to some Hope rotors and the Trialtech upgrade pads for that brake and you should be good to go The Avid levers/brakes combination is pretty solid so you should be able to get a good, working brake out of them if you maybe switcheroo the rotors/pads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkness Posted July 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 Switch to some Hope rotors and the Trialtech upgrade pads for that brake and you should be good to go The Avid levers/brakes combination is pretty solid so you should be able to get a good, working brake out of them if you maybe switcheroo the rotors/pads. Are standard hope pads so bad? And what rotor would be best? Floating or 1-piece? Or maybe some 1-piece/icetech shimano? I'm asking because I suspect ECHO rotors to be a really bad combination with avid brakes. Or maybe ECHO rotors are just so bad by itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niconj Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 Switch to some Hope rotors and the Trialtech upgrade pads SLX RT-66 will to the job just as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 Depending on the caliper he uses - if you're using pads that require relatively little bandwidth then they're a good option, but for using the Trial Zone (or older Trial calipers) brakes having a deeper rotor would be better. My recommendation up there was just for the BB7 setup, by the way. Regular Hope pads aren't too bad, but I noticed a marked increase in bite and hold switching to Jitsie (then Trialtech) pads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niconj Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 Depending on the caliper he uses - if you're using pads that require relatively little bandwidth then they're a good option, but for using the Trial Zone (or older Trial calipers) brakes having a deeper rotor would be better. My recommendation up there was just for the BB7 setup, by the way. Regular Hope pads aren't too bad, but I noticed a marked increase in bite and hold switching to Jitsie (then Trialtech) pads. Exactly. The BB7 works just as well with the SLX Rotor. Pad width is pretty much spot on for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnthebiker Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) Get trialtech/jitsie pads, and avid rotors. Those echo rotors are probably your issue. Mine was even great with an avid rotor and standard pads. Edited July 24, 2015 by jnthebiker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkness Posted July 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 OK, I get it, if mech then BB7 with avid/shimano rotors. But what about saints and slx vs BB7? And what about "SHIMANO>HOPE"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkness Posted August 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 (edited) GUUUUYS, please help me already. I saw some good riders even using DEORES and it's make me totally confused, because they costs almost nothing compared to HOPEs price. I just want a good and working well brake. Edited August 5, 2015 by darkness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
streetworksoldies Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 Exactly. The BB7 works just as well with the SLX Rotor. Pad width is pretty much spot on for it.Hi there which is a better tandem to a rt66 203? a much cheaper SLX or a ZEE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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