Sidehop technique/strength question

[niconj]

Hello guys,

I've been trying to master this technique for a while now and have made some progress already. I am wondering about a thing though. With perfect technique it all comes down to strength. While I lack a lot of the first, I've got some of the last having focused on plyometrics pretty much all my life. What I ask myself is, how much improvement the technique brings over strength.

I have seen quite some videos over the time and am always impressed by how easy it looks when some guys do sidehops to rear on a 1.20m wall or even higher. When looking at these videos... is it really the technique that lets you guys sidehop that high or are you very strong?

Also, is the jump from bersha in the pics a sidehop or do you call it differently? And how much of his jump is technique and how much strength.

Thanks,

Nico.

All I can manage so far is this:

http://videos.mtb-news.de/40814/sidehop

Edited July 9, 2015 by niconj

[ben_travis]

The pics just show a static to back in my book, although the technique is much the same as a sidehop to back (apart from the twist). Others might consider it differently. Who cares what it is called, it is still impressive how high some can do it.

In my opinion, technique is a much undervalued attribute by some riders. Raw power alone will not allow you to Bersha / Damon sized sidehops.

For me, the thing many people lack, and what I think stops them from going higher, is pre-load. The more you preload the more leverage on the power stage of the kick. In addition, one of the things I distinctly remember from my TGS days was my lack of flexibility.

I couldn't touch my toes at all (middle of shins at most), and remember seeing Kenny B wrapping his arms around the back of his legs and touching his heels with the palm side of his fingers at a comp back in the day.

I have definitely improved on my bike since i've spent more time improving my flexibility, I barely do any power work anymore, mainly because i'd rather ride my bike than spend it in the gym.

Edited July 9, 2015 by ben_travis

[tipek]

60% technik 40% strongnessss :D or vice versa, is it? :D

Flexibility is very important in my warm-up is to try to do these exercises stretch suzuki ,When it rains or not going to ride to work flexibility

Also I would recommend because of the power and flexibility explosion read this (Paul Wade) convict conditioning I and II and III ,

my strength has increased by one third after one month exercise,

Edited July 9, 2015 by tipek

[niconj]

For me, the thing many people lack, and what I think stops them from going higher, is pre-load.

Thanks. This is not the first time I hear this. Bersha doesn't really preload on the sequence shown though but I guess he's a little different anyways.

About the technique... after the pedal kick, do I get higher pulling the handlebars up as far as possible? I'v noticed that this is one thing I pretty much lack on all my moves; pedal up, static hop, sidehop...

Edited July 9, 2015 by niconj

[Mark W]

For me, the thing many people lack, and what I think stops them from going higher, is pre-load. The more you preload the more leverage on the power stage of the kick.

For further evidence, check out some of those Aurelien Fontenoy videos. Chilling on the back wheel then suddenly devastating preload, massive spring and he's up there. All those top UCI dudes are similar in that sense too. None of them are particularly 'big', but they all have incredible technique so can float up stuff. You're effectively making the bike do some of the work rather than just getting meathead and forcing it up.

You can probably get to a reasonable height just by being strong, but I think you'd plateau earlier than if you had a better technique. As soon as you start making the take-off/landing/next move more technical you're going to struggle more if you're reliant on just being an upside down triangle too.

[jnthebiker]

As JJ Gregorowicz told me, preload! The more you preload, the better your sidehops will be.

[niconj]

You can probably get to a reasonable height just by being strong, but I think you'd plateau earlier than if you had a better technique.

So what's the best way to improve this technique? Just by doing sidehops? I pretty much train alone and the only resort I have is my videos.

[Mark W]

If you want to get better at doing sidehops, doing more sidehops will be the way to do so

But seriously, only by riding and doing them will you be able to feel out all the little nuances/subtleties in technique that start to allow you to go higher. I used to be able to sidehop my mod OK (mainly because mods are cheating ), but on my 24 I'd always lagged behind with them. I started trying to make a conscious effort to try more of them of late, and after plateauing a bit I found that I did one where I slightly adapted the way I lifted my bike up underneath me and it instantly meant I could go higher. I wouldn't have found that out by doing some plyo workouts somewhere.

[niconj]

I wouldn't have found that out by doing some plyo workouts somewhere.

Thanks. I wasn't saying that I want to focus on plyos to get higher, I was just wondering how much strength plays a role. I think at jumping I am a lot better than the average trials rider, having specialized in this all my basketball "career". It's the technique I think I have to improve.

What made me think about the initial question was whether the guys I see in those videos are much better at jumping than I am as they get up way higher or if it's basically the technique. You get what I mean?

[jeff costello]

there's this one thing i just noticed - maybe it doesn't apply to you, because you have better posture on the bike than me, but maybe you can try and it's the same in your case.

you're a bit ahead of my skills-wise, but not that much (i think) and i've been training quite a bit lately. i sidehop only 50cm but i haven't trained for height that much.

i noticed that i was leaning too much forward when going down for the pre-load. when on the backwheel pull your handlebars a little closer to your hips than normal, then squat, lower front and jump. this makes my jumping posture a lot closer to as without a bike (back straighter). i think this helps to better transfer strength into movement.

but i'm not really sure, i only found out a few days ago and i'm learning to change my technique / find the best technique.

[niconj]

there's this one thing i just noticed - maybe it doesn't apply to you, because you have better posture on the bike than me, but maybe you can try and it's the same in your case.

you're a bit ahead of my skills-wise, but not that much (i think) and i've been training quite a bit lately. i sidehop only 50cm but i haven't trained for height that much.

i noticed that i was leaning too much forward when going down for the pre-load. when on the backwheel pull your handlebars a little closer to your hips than normal, then squat, lower front and jump. this makes my jumping posture a lot closer to as without a bike (back straighter). i think this helps to better transfer strength into movement.

but i'm not really sure, i only found out a few days ago and i'm learning to change my technique / find the best technique.

Will try that as well even though I think there isn't one perfect technique for everyone but slight variations of it. I could probably sidehop to 90cm now but am afraid of the wall on the side of me.

[jeff costello]

actually, i didn't want to sound smartassy. i'm wondering myself whether this is the way ahead. you posted about something i was thinking about too these days (i watched that same bersha side hop in loop for quite a while as well), i'm just curious if the same thing would work in your case too.

Edited July 9, 2015 by jeff costello

[Stephen Morris]

...just getting meathead and forcing it up.

I love it when you talk dirty, Mark.

Sidehops are 90% technique and 10% basic human strength. If you can pedal hop handlebar height then you're strong enough to sidehop, provided you learn the correct technique.

[Alex Dark]

Side hops in my opinion are largely down to how

Much fast twitch muscle

You have , most of the best riders of the world go from a normal position to fully preloaded to extended in a very short amount of time.

[dave33]

Thanks. I wasn't saying that I want to focus on plyos to get higher, I was just wondering how much strength plays a role. I think at jumping I am a lot better than the average trials rider, having specialized in this all my basketball "career". It's the technique I think I have to improve.

What made me think about the initial question was whether the guys I see in those videos are much better at jumping than I am as they get up way higher or if it's basically the technique. You get what I mean?

Sounds like you have answered your own question.

Of course both play a big part. But for you it sounds like your plenty strong enough.

What is your vertical jump ?

It would help if you posted a clip so we could analyse your technique

[niconj]

Sounds like you have answered your own question.

Of course both play a big part. But for you it sounds like your plenty strong enough.

What is your vertical jump ?

It would help if you posted a clip so we could analyse your technique

I did in my first post.

http://videos.mtb-ne...e/40814/sidehop

My standing vertical is around 90cm. Running it's around 1.10cm.

[cleep2]

Preload as much as possible and then take off the get your front wheel on with brake on then lift up your back wheel

[stirlingpowers]

You can most probably jump higher than most of the world elite then. 90 vert is somewhere in the top 1%, I guess. 70 is 95 perc at peak age, if I remember correctly.

It's down to learning the move.

[stirlingpowers]

It's about using all your power while still going straight up (seen from the side, of course).

[niconj]

You can most probably jump higher than most of the world elite then. 90 vert is somewhere in the top 1%,

Maybe 30 years ago. Now it's more like 8th grade. 70 cm standing was like 90% of my basketball team in 2000 in high school.

Edited July 11, 2015 by niconj

[jeff costello]

i think i'm on the right path. keeping the back vertical seems the crucial part.

things i'm focusing on right now:

- keep ass above back hub

- keep back (what feels like) vertical

- tuck

if you lean back while crouching before the jump, at a certain point you feel wedged in on the bike, a certain force that goes from your legs to the pedals. at first it feels weird, but i think it's the right thing. in your video you seem to be hunched too far forward too.

also: handlebar rotation!

i didn't not expect to have arcseconds make this much of a difference. a tiny amount more back and it feels cramped and like pulling at a wrong angle. at bit more forward and i can't properly grip the bars (middle finger feels too distant to bars). now i got it right and it feels super comfortable again on the back wheel.

[DAMON WATSON.]

i think i'm on the right path. keeping the back vertical seems the crucial part.

things i'm focusing on right now:

- keep ass above back hub

- keep back (what feels like) vertical

- tuck

if you lean back while crouching before the jump, at a certain point you feel wedged in on the bike, a certain force that goes from your legs to the pedals. at first it feels weird, but i think it's the right thing. in your video you seem to be hunched too far forward too.

also: handlebar rotation!

i didn't not expect to have arcseconds make this much of a difference. a tiny amount more back and it feels cramped and like pulling at a wrong angle. at bit more forward and i can't properly grip the bars (middle finger feels too distant to bars). now i got it right and it feels super comfortable again on the back wheel.

i think personally this is a common mistake yunno, people think cos a bikes better on back wheel it naturally does moves better.

think of it this way, yeh i agree with bars forward the bikes feel better on rear wheel, BUT, why do you think its hard to do anything to rear with the bars this way? cos all your weight is biased towards to front, a sidehop you should be behind or just above the bottom bracket, not infront, with the bars back you have a larger reach effectively, you can push the front forwards more.... ALLLLLLLL of this is my 50 pence worth anyway

i think alot of people have the wrong idea with trials to be honest, in regards to bike setup, iv actually gone a step further with mine now. i ran a few months ago an echo cnc 158 x 30 on my curve, bars upwards, but now i run the oldschool trialtech 130 x 25, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better. can land off 6 million foot and still keep front end up cos of it stems and bars have gone stupid these past few years, and thats whats ruining peoples style.

also Bersha is still is stylish young man (A)

[jeff costello]

i don't have carthy bars. right now i feel they are perfect when a tiny bit more forward than vertical. i was mostly surprised that tiny amounts of adjustments make a huge difference in how the bike feels.

- just posted a pic in the pictures thread. stem is 165 on a mod, don't think that's excessive. i did try different heights (amount of stackers under the stem), but i found that rotation changes things much more. 1cm more or less under the stem - didn't feel much different.

and yes, being too much forward while jumping is exactly what i was identifying as my problem. but i don't think it's my excessive setup, it's just learning good posture.

[stirlingpowers]

Maybe 30 years ago. Now it's more like 8th grade. 70 cm standing was like 90% of my basketball team in 2000 in high school.

My bad. I totally forgot to apply internet statistics™.

[OlegTinkov]

When I started practicing them I found it hard trying to put a decent pedal kick into the move as I had in my head the bike would just lurch forward, keeping your eyes completely focused on where you want the front wheel to land corrected this for me though so you can really give it some.