The Election Thread

[craigjames]

Well I would say I don't sit in either of those groups, personally I feel that the most competent group of people out of the options that were given are looking likley to come into power.

[MadManMike]

You'd be forgiven for thinking that, if we were coming from a clean slate, but we're not - they're already in power and from what I've seen, they've not done a fantastic job of it. Yet the majority appear to have kept them in power.

I just don't get it. Did people vote solely on the shiny marketing that fell through their letterbox?

We need to look at facts, rather than false promises. Look at the history of the party, the Tories don't have a great track record in my opinion.

[AdamR28]

Definitely not the best of a bad bunch.

Sorry, I mean in terms of personality. I don't count their 'agendas' or 'promises' cos they are complete bullshit.

[Mark W]

Their pre-election manifestos are generally pretty loosey goosey, but things like privatising the NHS would never have happened under any other government. There's no coincidence that a massive percentage of contracts won have been won by companies that are affiliated with the Tories in one way or another (i.e. owned by Tory donors, having Tory MPs as consultants for winning the contract (Stephen Dorrell...)). If there were even some safeguards in place to ensure quality of care/service that'd be one thing, but many contracts have been won by companies with incredibly poor records.

Good. There are too many people claiming benefits they don't deserve whilst others work every hour under the sun to try and make something of their lives.

That's not to say there arnt an equal number of people wholly entitled to benefits of some kind, there most definitely are. But as a culture we give away far too much for free to those who don't deserve it.

Out of interest, which benefits do you think are being claimed incorrectly? In terms of job seekers, housing benefits, etc.? What are you basing that "too many people" on?

An interesting poll came out a while ago:

- Benefit fraud: the public think that £24 of every £100 of benefits is fraudulently claimed. Official estimates are that just 70 pence in every £100 is fraudulent - so the public conception is out by a factor of 34...

Among the other surprising figures are that 26 per cent of people think foreign aid is in the top three items the Government spends money on (it actually makes up just 1.1 per cent of expenditure), and that 29 per cent of people think more is spent on Jobseekers' Allowance than pensions.

In fact we spend 15 times more on pensions - £4.9 billion on JSA vs £74.2 billion on pensions.

Dave - "Considering the way the finances are/have been" - the way they made things worse by basing their austerity system on incorrect data, that they then didn't correct when the people who created the information they used pointed it out? Seems really responsible Just have a read through this: http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/04/economic-consequences-george-osborne-covering-austerity-mistake

EDIT: Forgot that it's just passed the 50th anniversary of the Conversatives using the campaign slogan "If you want a nigger for a neighbour, vote Labour." The constituency where they created that slogan actually captured a previously safe Labour seat using it. A great bunch of people

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

Farage, Miliband and Clegg have all stood down as leaders of their respective parties. Giving things a good shake up if nothing else.

[tomturd]

As far as I can tell most people on my FB feed voted for a party that had zero chance of winning/having any impact on the overall result, and are now pissed off the conservatives won

(for the record I didn't vote conservative)

[JD™]

What I like most about this poll is that, if you exclude those who were too young or too idiotic to vote (i.e. those who answered "I love lamp" or "Vote for what?"), 85% of TFers went out and voted. Well done TF, whether you got the result you wanted or not.

[Milford Cubicle]

And we're off to a good start :/

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/snoopers-charter-set-to-return-to-law-as-theresa-may-suggests-conservative-majority-could-lead-to-huge-increase-in-surveillance-powers-10235578.html?fb_action_ids=10153391031647518&fb_action_types=og.shares

five more years of this kinda crap should be fun

[Pashley26]

Didn't vote, can't be f**ked.

I couldn't give a toss about cunting students, couldn't give a f**k about deporting people, couldn't give a f**k about tax, couldn't give a f**k about anything.

If there was a manifesto that said my bins would be emptied every week not fortnightly, or that the jobless sacks of shit that scrounge benefits would be employed by the council to cut my grass, sweep the pavements, help the elderly, and the smack heads who claim drug replacements would spend their days litter picking on the beach or doing something meaningful with their time to pay for the drugs, and be paid for their work out of my council tax then maybe I'd have bothered voting.

As it was, I couldn't give a f**k so I just went to work for the evening and earned myself far more money than any new government would have saved me.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Pashley26

[sharn]

Always Interesting to read peoples views. I'm not really BIG on politics or owt but..

Cant say that any party got me particularly excited for the future of the U.k really but i have to say i found myself (much to my own surprise) agreeing on many points with Mr.Farage.

Personally, i quite like the man as far as politicions go. He talks straight. He knows what he's saying and he means what he says. And i sort of warmed to his funny little character the more i listend to what he had to say. He seemed to be the only one in my opinion who actually understood anything for himself and who seemed to have a true interest in both the economy of this country and had a vague concern for the society. The rest are clearly pampered spokesmen for the Internationalists and are clearly compelled to represent the interests of them ( If, for the ease of conversation you'll excuse me using those sort of terms)

I find myself sharing Mr.Farage's concern about the U.k's continued membership of the E.U for many reasons. One of which is the economic state of some of the countries in the EU whos citizens are clearly ( and understandably) looking for greener pastures here in the u.k - And although i am by no means a nationlist/racist or Anything like such i think it's simply ridiculous that the U.k (or any other country) should be obliged to accept much immigration with no ability to excersize any means of control regarding what it's own economic capacities actually are. It is true that the amount of non/semi skilled labour in the u.k is already more than adequate if not excessive. Apparently theres already 2 and a half million un-employed in the u.k?

It seems to me to be a reasonable and sensible proposal of the UKIP party to get out of the EU, primarily just to be free to introduce a system similar to Australia, new zealand etc concerning immigration.. Where-by it can assess against it's own needs at any point and on an individual basis who it can realistically allow to migrate to the country. I'm not saying it's something over which there is current mayhem over.. but there does seem to be some sense in the concern and it seems to me the other (main) parties might have gotten abit too chummy within the Internationalist group to be able to easily turn back, regardless of whether it is actually in the best interests of the country -and after all - lets not forget these people are not likely to actually feel any of the consequences of their actions themselves. I do share a slight concern with UKIP that the continued 'Open-door' Policy for citizens from any Eu membership country could easily see an already 'At capacity' U.K forced into real economic issues of un-employment which is likely to lead to social issues. Its not racism it's realism. It may be not be *extrememly* obvious right now, but i think it is potentially good forsight to see this as a likely problem in the not too distant future, which the leaders of the main parties dont show many signs of addressing untill it's too late (as usual). But i am by no means clued up about all the things - it just seems like common sense? Eu has many bankrupt/poor countries in it now and it's policy that all countries within it have 'open doors' - it's obvious whats going to happen isnt it? It still leaves us (The human family) with the problem of how to help those people but from a strictly selfish 'U.k best interestes' p.o.v - It seems Farage is on the ball on this one. It's a big concern which indirectly effects all the other aspects of society - i.e NHS,Taxes etc. And it seems the 'pro-E,U' parties are simply over-looking it chasing their 'euro-dream' as Farage puts it.

However, i do believe that people can cope with anything if theyre willing to cooperate and willing to sacrifice - regardless of the situation. But i'm not sure we have a society in which 100% of its members are so happy to do so and i see a potential for an increase in racial hatred and division as the priviledges of the country are diminished. ( And theres abit of a conspiracy thats part of the plan of the 'Globalists' - Divide and conquer?) Regardless, i myself feel that i understand the UKIP argument from a strictly political, U.K self interest point of view and from that stand point am compelled to agree with it even though i hate to feel so harsh. Naturally i want to say ' Aah it'll all be alright'. But i'm not so sure.

About the Fox hunting stuff. Although i understand theyre just proposing a county by county referendem on the ban.. and although i can understand it's a tradition that stems from what once was a necessity to protect live-stock.. It is today just a blood sport. And Honestly this was the main reason i didnt go and vote for UKIP. ( I didnt vote at all )

Plus i was scared that i'd drastically mis-understood something because i'm always told theyre a bunch of racist nazis with comments like on in this thread.. Someone please explain to me why i should hate UKIP over all the rest ( except the Lovely Greens of course) because i'm really confused!

Now, you could consider me to be someone you might presume would be dead against UKIP - I'm of a mixed heritage ( Although brought up solely by my Mother and her/our totally English-as-a-bakewell-tart family My fathers family originate from Northern India (But i have nothing to do with them unfortunatly) Over recent years i have taken great interest in the Philosophies & social practices of Islam (the proper islam not these Isis type nutters) and have come to realise that the message of the Quran is (for me) clearly something Prophetic. Like the bible.. but way more concise.

You could consider me to be a 'Muslim' Depending on what you understand that to mean. To me it basically means don't worship yourself, dont worship other people, dont worship idols but instead worship ( Or 'give your thanks to'..) That illusive force that brought all those things (and indeed everything else!) into being. That logical conclusion you get to when you intellectually realise that eventually 'something' has to be UNcreated. And that something is The Cause and Source of all things. That is not a man or woman or a donkey or infact anything else possibly conceivable. The Formless. The Eternal. The Knowing. Ultimately and (to me) logically nothing else is truly deserving of praise, as all things are a creation of this Boundless, Absolute 'entity' . I call it 'The only thing that can be called God' or in Arabic - 'Allah'

Anyway, so just to say.. I'd still rather have a 'nationalist' goverment with a few ' temporarily' mis-informed potential 'racists' who maybe can be reasoned with ( Or will just drink themselves into irrelevance anyway) rather than a Knowingly evil, Scarily sober, 'Globalist' goverment. And 'they' know very well what theyre doing. But it's possibly too late. And It's written in All the books. *Conspiracy*. Wake up folks.

To be honest, never mind Policy.. I mean Politics. I'm more intesrested in the 'Free Man' Argument. Did God endow some people with the ability to make real Laws?! Of course not, thats why theyre just 'Policies' for those who agree to be subject to them. I.e who take an oath to pledge allegiance to them. Unfortunatly theres a very well trained and armed social army ready to enforce that Policy upon any rogue Individuals who may have chosen not to 'bear the mark'.

You Are the Living Earth. Created Free and bound only by Natural Law - To honour and respect Life, Liberty and Freedom. Unless you agree (Or are forced by circumstance) to be bound by something else.

And the Horror show continues.

It's time to get Mad.

Edit: Few spelling mistakes and an extra (A) for my Religious Propaganda *Bloody Cameron - Why does he look so odd? Maybe he's actually a goverment experiment? *

But seriously

Edited May 8, 2015 by sharn

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

Whachootalkinabout?

[dngr2self]

What I like most about this poll is that, if you exclude those who were too young or too idiotic to vote (i.e. those who answered "I love lamp" or "Vote for what?"), 85% of TFers went out and voted. Well done TF, whether you got the result you wanted or not.

Just thought I'd quote this because it's a really good comment.

People should learn more about the sacrifices others have made for us to have the right to vote before saying its all bollocks.

[Luke Rainbird]

Surely we only know that 43 people did?

[Pashley26]

Just thought I'd quote this because it's a really good comment.

People should learn more about the sacrifices others have made for us to have the right to vote before saying its all bollocks.

Democracy my arse.

We've got the right to vote, but we've not got the power to change f**k all other than the idiot who sits at the head of the table.

People may well have died to allow us to vote, but we're only voting for nothing.

I literally cannot see how it's any more consequential to my life than voting for Britain's Got Talent.

[bikeperson45]

.

[JD™]

Surely we only know that 43 people did?

Shh, it sounds better as a percentage.

Perhaps with that attitude I'll one day be a politician. Unlikely.

(Edit: I'm aware that being 'in marketing' is essentially just as 'evil')

Edited May 8, 2015 by JD™

[isitafox]

Personally, i quite like the man as far as politicions go. He talks straight.

Does not compute

[sharn]

Does not compute

Okay, he *seems to* talk more straight than any of the others

Sorry for the lecture - i seem to find it impossible to only right one liners. But genuinely i'm interested for somebody to show me what they consider to be the reasons to not like UKIP.. because honestly i nearly voted for them!!

Besides the county referendum on Fox hunting * - because i'm already not particularly diggin that.

(* And the ghastly colour scheme)

Edited May 8, 2015 by sharn

[dngr2self]

The numbers don't mean much on here but it's a reflection on whats happening in society.

[Mark W]

Not wanting to go against the TTIP is just one reason. As mentioned before (which I think JD misinterpreted what I was getting at), I just don't think they'd ever have a party that was cohesive enough to actually govern. Their masks inevitably slip and some ridiculous comment slips out that show what their real feelings are. I don't think any governing party could realistically sustain constant PR disasters/cabinet reshuffles due to the inevitable resignations. In terms of supporting them or not, the way that they've had as many members as they have having to resign for comments they've made would be enough to make me have serious doubts about their likely long-term governance.

As far as I can tell most people on my FB feed voted for a party that had zero chance of winning/having any impact on the overall result, and are now pissed off the conservatives won

(for the record I didn't vote conservative)

Probably because most people felt they had little other option to do as the traditional 'tactical voting' was rendered null and void anyway? The Lib Dems distancing themselves from the Tories over the past year allowed the Tories to portray the Lib Dems as being more responsible for the unpopular policies than they ever really were, and basically sacrificed them to score more votes. As a result the Lib Dem mediator-style vote was removed, leaving the only other option being Labour who were compromised by having their arses handed to them in Scotland. I knew voting Green wouldn't affect the outcome of the vote, but if there was a bigger turnout for the 'fringe' parties then it was more fuel for the fire of those wanting to press for a clear-cut referendum on whether we stick with FPTP or switch to PR. Ironically, despite me disliking everything about them, UKIP might actually help out in that a significant way thanks to their votes-to-seat ratio being 3.9million:1 compared to the SNP's being something like 27,000:1.

Had to simultaneously laugh and sigh (tricky combo) at the news about Theresa May and the 'Snoopers Charter' immediately being raised again. Despite overwhelming unpopularity and other parties seemingly being against it, it looks like she'll finally get her way now. Didn't waste much time on that one.

[sharn]

Not wanting to go against the TTIP is just one reason. As mentioned before (which I think JD misinterpreted what I was getting at), I just don't think they'd ever have a party that was cohesive enough to actually govern. Their masks inevitably slip and some ridiculous comment slips out that show what their real feelings are. I don't think any governing party could realistically sustain constant PR disasters/cabinet reshuffles due to the inevitable resignations. In terms of supporting them or not, the way that they've had as many members as they have having to resign for comments they've made would be enough to make me have serious doubts about their likely long-term governance.

A quick search as to what TTIP is and these people dont think its much to be proud of? But i will try to understand it more because i just skim read that as i'm about to go to bed

I can understand your second comment and in all honesty i got that impression myself. Although i think Mr.Farage is one of the better politicions i dont think the party behind him is quite in line. Although i can believe that the party has undergone heavy critisism and slander due to their 'Anti- establishment' views. And we all know the 'PTB' can easily smear your name relentlessly. However I did see that video of one of the representitives saying he'd shoot an asian guy in the head if he got into parliment - and that does go to show that theres unfortunatly some 'extremists' ( Actually i think its more immaturity) behind the scenes in the party and these concerns were the reasons i didnt vote for them. But i personally do see potentially a good party in UKIP if they uproot those type of fools and get the general (good) people of the U.K behind them and some good MPs & local representitives.

To me the whole LibLabCon is now totally an International/Global elites puppet show. Although they obviously have a better line up of lovely Local councilors. But that doesnt really help the country on a national level.

I'm new to Politics really - havnt paid so much attention before but something about Farages speeches made me think something could actually change there. Have you heard him go?! Somethings driving him, and it aint a hand-shandy from the Boys in blue (with yellow stars)

But to be honest. I'm not so much interested in preserving society as i am interested in preserving Humanity.

Anyway, stick a fork in me..

[Mark W]

A quick search as to what TTIP is and these people dont think its much to be proud of? But i will try to understand it more because i just skim read that as i'm about to go to bed

Considering UKIP are all about the importance of the heritage and blah blah of the UK, totally undermining it's sovereignty by signing up to an agreement whereby companies can sue the shit out of the government for creating any kind of legislation or laws that could potentially harm their ability to make money seems a little odd. As that report mentions:

TTIP’s biggest threat to society is its inherent assault on democracy. One of the main aims of TTIP is the introduction of Investor-State Dispute Settlements (ISDS), which allow companies to sue governments if those governments’ policies cause a loss of profits. In effect it means unelected transnational corporations can dictate the policies of democratically elected governments.

ISDSs are already in place in other bi-lateral trade agreements around the world and have led to such injustices as in Germany where Swedish energy company Vattenfall is suing the German government for billions of dollars over its decision to phase out nuclear power plants in the wake of the Fukushima disaster in Japan. Here we see a public health policy put into place by a democratically elected government being threatened by an energy giant because of a potential loss of profit. Nothing could be more cynically anti-democratic.

[sharn]

Considering UKIP are all about the importance of the heritage and blah blah of the UK, totally undermining it's sovereignty by signing up to an agreement whereby companies can - in secret - sue the shit out of the government for creating any kind of legislation or laws that could potentially harm their ability to make money seems a little odd. There's a lot wrong with the TTIP and across the EU people are against it (when we were in Barca there were stickers/posters/graf up about it), but the majority of political parties here are for it.

Okay, take the fork out.. iv'e got a bit more in me

I really dont know much about what youre on about there? Could you give me an example? ( because i am genuienly interested to understand these things) Surely companies could only successfully sue the goverment if the goverment has actually directly discriminated against them? Surely not just for creating 'any kind of legislation that could potentially harm their ability to make money' I'm no expert but surely it'd have be deemed to directly discriminate against them? And surely goverments should not be infallible? The Goverment is not Sovereign are they?. Isnt the Queen sovereign and the Goverments are elected powers entrusted to act in accordance and in the interests of protecting and upholding peoples rights on her behalf? I found this article which is interesting halfway down someone explains things very well and in their 'conclusion' stress the importance that a goverment be accountable in order than it not become tyrannical. Thats the tradition of this country in which measures were put in place to Protect people from a tyranical govermemnt! But as i understand from other readings it is also always 'presumed' an elected goverment is acting accordingly with Law unless and untill an individual actually makes a claim otherwise in a court of law. Which i thought was an interesting bit of information.

I personally am against 'Globalism' in a political sense. I'm obviously all for a World wide family of Peace Love and Freedom but i believe it would be best made of self-governing Independant communities who have personlally made treaties and agreements to do things.

In a way i suppose that idea of Heritage did appeal to me because in a world thats increasingly becoming carbon copies of itself it's a romantic notion.

Edited May 9, 2015 by sharn

[manuel]

Democracy my arse.

We've got the right to vote, but we've not got the power to change f**k all other than the idiot who sits at the head of the table.

People may well have died to allow us to vote, but we're only voting for nothing.

I literally cannot see how it's any more consequential to my life than voting for Britain's Got Talent.

You need to spend less time with your cock up old peoples bumholes. Voting makes a difference. Even if you just spoil your vote - maybe by waving your now manky peen all over the ballot paper, you might find that things do change for the better.

Less than 1 in 4 people voted conservative, 1 in 3 didn't vote at all. You do the maths.

[Muel]

Less than 1 in 4 people voted conservative, 1 in 3 didn't vote at all. You do the maths.

Did not know this! Where did you find that out?

We need a review of the voting system IMO. I cannot see how it's fair that one persons vote counts for more than another just because they live in a different area.