FFW and Fixed Rear Hub

[Ash-Kennard]

Hello All,

Looking at a few freewheels and rear hubs on tarty, unfortunately I have no idea what is good these days.

FFW:

Reliable, lots of clicks, 18tooth, not too weighty.

Rear Hub:

Fixed, no clicks, 32 hole, 135mm, non disc, silver preferred, not weighty.

Been running a pro 2 for years now, but want to have a crack at FFW for the weight distribution benefits.

Cheers, Ash

Edited April 14, 2015 by Ash-Kennard

[SamKidney]

Toss up between a Jitsie 108 or an echo SL. Both have positive and negative reviews. Jitsie favoured more so it seems.

Never gone wrong with an Echo TR rear hub myself.

[DAMON WATSON.]

Echo tr rear, or the older trialtech with normal size threads.

Echo sl all day for the freewheel

[isitafox]

Jitsie is definitely worth a look Ash

[Mark W]

If you're used to the hefty Hope Pro 2 bolts Ash, the Sport Lite hub might be a good one to go for:

The non-drive bolt is "just" a normal M6, but the M10 on the drive-side is pretty reassuring

In terms of freewheels, either the Echo SL or Jitsie freewheels are a good shout. I've ridden with a few people on the Jitsie ones and they sound pretty meaty

[Ash-Kennard]

Okay, so Jitsie Freewheel seems to be the one then!

I do like meaty bolts!

How do we rate the Trialtech Sport Lite M30 135mm hubs in comparison to the Sport Lite version? Will work out about the same price with cogs.

Also, what chains are the cool kids riding with nowadays?

[Mark W]

The M30 versions seem pretty good. They were strength tested pretty rigorously and they didn't have any issues with stripping threads or anything along those lines so you don't need to worry about that side of things. You're just a bit more limited in terms of sprocket choices, but Trialtech sprockets are really good anyway so I don't think you'd have a problem. I've run both versions of the Sport (splined and screw-on) over the past 6 years and haven't had any issues whatsoever.

For chains, you can't really go wrong with a KMC Z610 HX.

[dngr2self]

My personal preference is echo ffw and a trialtech rear hub. I hear the jitse freewheels are good but I've never tried one.

[CC12345678910]

For chains, you really can't go wrong with a KMC Z610 HX. KMC Z510HX

Fixed!

Hearing that 'boiingg' noise as the chain whips about (even under constant tension of a rohloff) and feeling that stretchy, spongy sensation of the plates trying to splay over the z610hx's narrow pins simultaneously, every time even minor power is asked of a chain is not confidence inspiring in any way.

A z510HX has none of this.

Edited April 16, 2015 by CC12345678910

[Mark W]

...feeling that stretchy, spongy sensation of the plates trying to splay over the z610hx's narrow pins simultaneously, every time even minor power is asked of a chain is not confidence inspiring in any way.

That's a level of bullshit that Rusevelt would be proud of.

[CC12345678910]

I'm just trying to help someone out by telling them about the constant feeling of imminent knee/balls to stem contact I have whenever I ride a bike with a z610HX/trialtech lite chain and how I'd urge them not to bother even considering it, yet give constuctive advice on to what I would use instead, and you come back saying I'm talking shit.

When my notifications told me you'd replied 30secs after I hit post I and even now I've only just stopped chuckling at you.

Now this time I haven't tagged you, let's see how long it takes. Oh and If you're in an argumentative mood and want an old school TF/youtube comment-eske flame war - nah, I'm good thanks, I've better things I should be getting on with.

[Rusevelt]

Don't sweat it dude, this is typical TF.

[Luke Rainbird]

For the sake of balance, I ran nothing but Z610HX chains on around a dozen bikes over the past 10 years and they were never anything but stiff. Certainly no flex as you're describing.

I'm assuming the only change in your case was moving from the 610 to 510, ruling out any other source of flex?

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

If anything the 610 should be stronger (and lighter) because the pins are shorter hence less moment arm and mass. Z610HX all the way.

[Mark W]

I'm just trying to help someone out by telling them about the constant feeling of imminent knee/balls to stem contact I have whenever I ride a bike with a z610HX/trialtech lite chain and how I'd urge them not to bother even considering it, yet give constuctive advice on to what I would use instead, and you come back saying I'm talking shit.

That's because you were - the "sensation of the plates trying to splay over the z610hx's narrow pins" doesn't happen. The noise you're hearing/feeling will happen to any chain being run under similar circumstances. If my chain's running a little loose I've heard that on every type of chain I've run (Z610 HX, Z510 HX, Z510, K710, K710SL, K810, KHE Collapse). Besides, the heads of the pins are mushroomed in an identical way on the 510 and 610 chains so your "theory" would be just as likely to occur on either chain. Consequently, it's not "constructive" advice, you're just spreading misinformation. There's already plenty of that in the trials world - I spent a lot of my time at TartyBikes trying to put out those kinds of fires, such as the memorable time when Rusevelt posted on here that the Echo SL freewheels had an aluminium core and we got calls/e-mails about whether that was true.

If you've had good experiences with the Z510 HX chains then cool, just say that - you don't need to conjure up some baseless hypothesis about things to justify it.

[Dman]

Just tried a wipperman connex 100, absolute shite, around 15 stiff links, stretched loads. Going back to a BSD forever chain, ran one for about 6 months, hardly stretched, and is a thing of beauty, black and really nice looking pins.

[dave33]

That's because you were - the "sensation of the plates trying to splay over the z610hx's narrow pins" doesn't happen. The noise you're hearing/feeling will happen to any chain being run under similar circumstances. If my chain's running a little loose I've heard that on every type of chain I've run (Z610 HX, Z510 HX, Z510, K710, K710SL, K810, KHE Collapse). Besides, the heads of the pins are mushroomed in an identical way on the 510 and 610 chains so your "theory" would be just as likely to occur on either chain. Consequently, it's not "constructive" advice, you're just spreading misinformation. There's already plenty of that in the trials world - I spent a lot of my time at TartyBikes trying to put out those kinds of fires, such as the memorable time when Rusevelt posted on here that the Echo SL freewheels had an aluminium core and we got calls/e-mails about whether that was true.

If you've had good experiences with the Z510 HX chains then cool, just say that - you don't need to conjure up some baseless hypothesis about things to justify it.

actually have to agree with mark here, maybe 1 of the best chains ever for trials and they are £8 in some shops.... i think its the chain on 90% of full builds to ?

[CC12345678910]

This is going to be my one and only reply on this, I'm not gonna go at this for 3 pages in case that's the intent here.

I'm assuming the only change in your case was moving from the 610 to 510, ruling out any other source of flex?

Yup, thats the one. Which in my view makes it a not-made-up-from-thin-air direct comparison, without which I would have kept my trap shut.

610hx on an inspired with the same rohloff, well and evenly tensioned, meaning no slack or tight spots, makes teeth to concrete sensation/noises and generally makes me sh1t myself above 2ft objects, the 510hx that followed does not and feels totally solid to boot. Subsequently 610's have been dubbed by others a 'rubber band chain'. I've had better results from a £4 Taya chain from Halfreuds!

FWIW that less than 30h trials use 610hx went on my '75 Raleigh roadie (as it can be used on up to 8spd cassette too, & that only has six) and it splayed a link pulling away from traffic lights two days afterwards. I mark all pins I join with spray paint, and this was on a link I hadn't touched.

Does being in very realistic danger of being crushed between a double decker bus & and a traffic railing due a chain snap from a chain that shouldn't snap according to every other 610 user, sound theroretical or a 'hypothesis'?

[AdamR28]

The 610 and 510 are absolutely identical apart from the length of the pins and rollers. I've never personally broken a 610 or had links come apart (but have 'broken' many other chains).

I think the pins stick through the plates a touch more on a 510 though, so if you're the sort of rider to need extra peace of mind to help cure a non issue the 510 is worth fitting over a 610 I guess.

[CC12345678910]

How refreshingly tactful. It's a shame others have lost that ability - "This world is full of ar*eholes, it doesn't need another one" springs to mind.

EDIT: And because you were as nice as ever, I'm going to go against my word above ^^

1) The 610 and 510 are absolutely identical apart from the length of the pins and rollers.

2) I've never personally broken a 610 or had links come apart (but have 'broken' many other chains).

3) I think the pins stick through the plates a touch more on a 510 though,

4) so if you're the sort of rider to need extra peace of mind

5) to help cure a non issue

6) the 510HX is worth fitting over a 610.

1) i was/am aware of this, it's what puzzles me the most about my, quote, 'hypothesis' on the subject.

2) Because the plates are identical, I do doubt a plate would snap, but every 610 I've seen snap, ie. more than mine, splays over the pin end.

3) They definitely do. Had offcuts of both side by side in my hand this afternoon as it happens.

4) I definitely am. A good chain is cheaper than the dentist. I hate dentists. Idle robbing bast**ds.

5) Meeting concrete/wall/rock/other immovable object in a hurry or being a filling in a street furniture - stagecoach sandwich is/was not a non issue, but meh, whatever.

6) My original point.

BTW what on earth were you browsing TF for at 5am on a Sunday morning? Least of all replying to my musings?

Edited April 21, 2015 by CC12345678910

[Mark W]

Does being in very realistic danger of being crushed between a double decker bus & and a traffic railing due a chain snap from a chain that shouldn't snap according to every other 610 user, sound theroretical or a 'hypothesis'?

Not sure if you're intentionally missing the point I clearly made before, and the point that I made initially, but if that's unintentional then - to be tactful - "wow".

[bing]

Think I'll try a 510 on the next change then, I'm about due one. I've ran 610, 710, 810sl and a 910, khe collapse and some Reynolds 3/16 X 1/2 chain from work and the only one I've ever broken was the Reynolds. There's no price difference in most places so may as well try it. Spring tensioner anyway so flappy chain won't be an issue

[dave33]

Not sure if you're intentionally missing the point I clearly made before, and the point that I made initially, but if that's unintentional then - to be tactful - "wow".

Depends if the plate actually snapped or not I suppose ? Edited April 24, 2015 by dave33

[Mark W]

No, that's not really related to what I was saying. I was referring to the:

"Hearing that 'boiingg' noise as the chain whips about (even under constant tension of a rohloff) and feeling that stretchy, spongy sensation of the plates trying to splay over the z610hx's narrow pins simultaneously, every time even minor power is asked of a chain..."

That isn't what happens with it, especially when - as I said before - I've seen loads of chains make that same noise when it's been slightly undertensioned and you put power down through it (I borrowed a mountain bike a little while back and when you put a jab of power in on tech uphill sections - usually meaning you were running a fairly small ring up front so consequently having quite a lot of excess chain the rear mech was having to try to keep tensioned - it would make that same noise pretty much every time as the chain suddenly became taut again). That quote is just some made up theory, and that's totally unrelated to whether his chain on his roadie snapped or not (and also irrespective of where it happened).

[dave33]

yea sure,I'm just interested to see if the plate snapped or not.. god help his freewheel if thats his riding style i guess..