jeff costello Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 hello, long time reader, first timer writer. i have had a fourplay for about a year and i've been training a lot for the past 6 months. while making progress, i sometimes wish for something more pogostick-y, that is more willing to go on the backwheel. i actually only train trial-moves and next to no street stuff at all, apart from an occasional attempt at a footjam something. since i'm expecting a little christmas bonus this year, i was thinking about getting a rockman radix 24" frame. somehow it caught my eye and it should have appr. the geometry i'm looking for. also i VERY looking forward to horizontal dropouts. since i sidehop to the right the mech hangers and tensioners of the fourplay are a huge annoyance. but... this will only be an option if i can migrate all parts from the fourplay to the radix. including fork. (for the most parts this won't a problem, i have maguras in the back. and i know that i have to get a new headset and snail cams. and i also have a leftover longer stem). my questions are: can i used the inspired team fork in the radix? the difference in height between the inspired and other 24" forks is only between 0,5 and 1cm. is there any other reason for not using the inspireds? is the bottom bracket the same? do you generally think this i a good idea for a frame upgrade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJ. Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 You're opening a can of worms to be honest. Most parts will fit but the new bike won't have the feel you're looking for. Best thing to do would be to sell the Inspired and start from scratch and build a new Radix. Your wheel / tyre setup will be a little on the obese side for a non seated trials set up The forks are also really heavy, this'll make the bike feel really solid but it wont react like a proper trials bike it'll always have that BMX feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack1987 Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 I've seen this done before and it rode fine, you can always change parts at a later date plus it gives you the option to go back to a street bike if you change your mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waybe2014 Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 If you are buying that frame new you could get a full used bike for the same price which is what I did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waybe2014 Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 There are actually a few stocks on the for sale thread for between 250-450 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff costello Posted November 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 (edited) thanks for your replies, this was very helpful. so the radix/inspired combo won't be totally ridiculous. i'll give it a try then. i could still get proper 24" forks a few months later, if need arises. something i didn't think of before was the weight of the forks, whether this would result in a very front-heavy bike. i checked and the rockman 24" forks are only about 100gr lighter than the inspireds. this can't make that much of a difference. i forgot to mention that i custom built my fourplay. so i mostly have quality parts and there is no reason to get a new bike. Edited November 27, 2014 by jeff costello Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigjames Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 What about the gearing? Could you put up a photo or list the spec of your inspired? What stem is it you have spare? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieWilliams Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 (edited) I seen these on ebay if your staying front disc they say 4 bolt but they have disc mount to i'm sure http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Echo-SL-26-Bike-Trials-fork-4-bolt-2012-model-Black-/181574253808?pt=UK_sportsleisure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item2a46ab3cf0 Edited November 27, 2014 by JamieWilliams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff costello Posted November 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 (edited) sure, fourplay 2013 frame, team forks front: hope trial zone, 180mm back: hs33 2014 rims: inspired pro schwalbe talbe top tires (pretty worn, should be replaced soon) front hub: trialtech disc back: hope evo wethepeople royal cranks, animal pedals blank bikes euroBB inspired riser bars stem: onza 90/35 (my leftover stem is a trialtech 130/25) regarding gearing: i now run 22/15. but i'm still experimenting around, so i don't have a set preference now. i also have a 18t front sprocket, so i could easily switch to 18/14 if needed. i'm using the 22 right now mostly because of the bashring. Edited November 27, 2014 by jeff costello Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff costello Posted November 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 one more question regarding gearing: the chainstay length of the radix is 368mm. how's that measured with horizontal dropouts? innermost position? middle? end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Target Posted November 28, 2014 Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 one more question regarding gearing: the chainstay length of the radix is 368mm. how's that measured with horizontal dropouts? innermost position? middle? end? The rear rim must be in correct position against 4-bolt magura mounts while measuring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dngr2self Posted November 28, 2014 Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 Personally the only things I'd change are the stem and gearing. Even then it's not essential but would help you enjoy the bike more. It'll be heavier than the average comp build but it'll still be lighter than your fourplay.Personally the only things I'd change are the stem and gearing. Even then it's not essential but would help you enjoy the bike more. It'll be heavier than the average comp build but it'll still be lighter than your fourplay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff costello Posted December 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 (edited) now i've run into another problem someone else might have encountered before: how do hope evo rear hubs and snail cams work? i assume the hub has exactly 135mm? is the frame a bit wider to give space for the snail cams? or does it simply not work at all? can i run some kind of chain tug on the outside instead? like the inspired console tugs? the trialtech ones seem a bit long. or no tensioner at all? works on my fixie, but with a trial bike? i really don't want to buy a new frame and then be immediately be forced to a botch job with the chain tension. and if there is the slightest chance i might have to run a sprung tenisoner contraption again, i'm getting a different frame or stick with the fourplay. Edited December 3, 2014 by jeff costello Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted December 3, 2014 Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 one more question regarding gearing: the chainstay length of the radix is 368mm. how's that measured with horizontal dropouts? innermost position? middle? end? It's measured from the centre of the BB axle to the centre of the rear hub axle when the chain is tight with whatever gear ratio is specified (so I'd imagine 18:14). You'd 100% need to run the 18t sprocket up front as you won't have the clearance for anything bigger than that without the sprocket teeth hitting the BB yoke. how do hope evo rear hubs and snail cams work? i assume the hub has exactly 135mm? is the frame a bit wider to give space for the snail cams? or does it simply not work at all? can i run some kind of chain tug on the outside instead? like the inspired console tugs? the trialtech ones seem a bit long. or no tensioner at all? works on my fixie, but with a trial bike? The Hope hub is exactly 135mm wide, and the frame is spaced at 135mm. Most trials rear hubs designed to work with snail cams are 129mm wide to allow you to run a pair of cams (which are 3mm each). You might be able to squeeze a single cam in on the driveside, but that would possibly involve splaying the frame open a little (some frames are a little looser than others). You wouldn't be able to run a cam/tug on the outside of the dropout as the chainstay and seatstay sit too close to where your axle is. With the M10 Hope axle bolts you can theoretically get away with running them without tugs/chain tensioners because you can get them tighter than regular trials hub M6 axle bolts, but it's a bit more of a faff to set up. Staying rear wheel related, it would probably be really hard to get your brakes to line up properly with your rear wheel setup as it is. From memory, the Inspired rims are 35mm wide whereas the Radix is spaced to fit a 47mm rear rim. Consequently you may be able to get your brake pads set up when they're brand new, but as soon as they wear you wouldn't be able to push the cylinders in far enough to get your brake to work. That aside, the forks won't be the end of the world - they're not perfect for that bike but they'd still work fine. They're not as light as some of the out-and-out trialsy forks out there, but not hugely so so it wouldn't be the end of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff costello Posted December 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 (edited) thanks for the in-depth reply! i guess i'll stick to the fourplay for a while then. too much uncertainities/ bricolage involved for such an investment. i'll keep looking for a better suited frame for my setup. on a whim i put the 130mm stem on the fourplay (again) for tonight's riding and found it a big improvement. moves on the backwheel were noticeably easier and more comfortable. i take that as a hint that a more classical trial frame would be better for me. edit: i guess all the trial specific frames will have a similar spacing of the magura mounts? so i better expect building a new rear wheel in any case. Edited December 4, 2014 by jeff costello Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff costello Posted December 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) this thread is going for way longer than i expected, but i'm afraid i need some input again. i have painted myself into a corner with the parts i've chosen. i really want to change to a pure trials frame, but i can't spend a fortune (again). budget is around 500 with some wiggle room. somebody have an idea what's the best way to go here? a) stick with the rockman option (as described above): get new rear rim (i think i can re-use my old spokes, difference is just 1mm), try to make bmx cranks work and use either just one snail cam or none at all. get a frame that has integrated tensioners or accepts tugs: echo 24 or ozonys skill, get new rear rim, get new isis cranks & sprocket not really a fan of those frames, but the ozonys are really cheap (€180 for the "skill 24"). i like the black echo 24 a bit, but i'd have to get isis cranks, because of the spanish bb and the very little front sprocket clearance. c) say "f**k it" and go 20". (something i want to do at some point, didn't expect to do it now though). i actually contemplated this for a bit, as some frames and parts are cheaper, but i think the 116mm rear standard makes this idea too expensive. i looked around for something used to start out with, but i can't find anything here (either total crap or way too expensive). i think i'm still leaning towards option A. i guess i just need someone to encourage that this will actually work. Edited December 9, 2014 by jeff costello Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waybe2014 Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) As long as space isn't an issue I say just buy another bike for less than 500 then you still have the four play and less hassle and more options (20/24/26) http://www.trials-forum.co.uk/topic/189534-2012-breath-yes-full-build/#entry2618097 Edited December 10, 2014 by waybe2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff costello Posted December 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 (edited) thanks for all the help. i finally went with the "f**k it" - option: only used it for a few minutes so far, but really happy with it. feels completely different to the fourplay and even some moves immediately felt more comfortable. some observations: that 25/16 gearing only works by a hairbreadth - the problem is not the chainring (there's lots of room for more), but the chain passes the magura mounts only by a millimeter or two. same thing with the crank and the magura slaves on the non-drive side. had to use three washers to the it far enough away. all in all i almost stayed within budget. did re-use the bars, brakes, cranks, bottom bracket and headset from the fourplay though. the price of all the new stuff was almost identical to the cost of the radix and a new rim for the rear and two or three small parts. Edited December 23, 2014 by jeff costello Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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