Disc.Jokie. Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 What hope you have and what's wrong with it? hope mono team green, and nothing, simply no hold compared to my saint and the bite wasn't up standards either :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bing Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 For the record, I've had m810 saints, best disk brake I've ever had. The bite and hold is brutal. I've also had a hope mono trial, which was shite, I'm on my second shimano deore, which is nearly as good as the Saint. I've not tried the newer hopes, but I have seen them bring made with love and stuff by proper northerners, which makes me want to buy them. But despite the obvious quality, they are a tad pricey. I'd use shimanos, despite the pad rock, purely on a price basis. If it was money no object, it'd be tech 3 v4's. Think that's a good enough reason as any mentioned above Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clerictgm mk2 Posted October 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 (edited) BB7 f**k all your hopes. I've used some. Compared to hopes they(I'm talking about MINE BB7s with MY setup: Echo TR rotors + ECLAT Core Linear cables and Avid FR5 levers) are total crap. They limited me pretty hard, because I do not trust them, they worked really bad, slipping, no bite at all, bad hold (even after cleaning rotor and pads with car pads cleaning spray, acetone and spirit). Both used with ECHO TR rotors and standard pads. I know that Avid rotors are better for BB5/7. But anyway BB7: 1) has bad modulation 2) only 1 pad moving 3) you can't do whips easily 4) lever feels worse than hope Also they need more attention to work properly. BB7 are great brakes if you have not so much money/prefer mechanics(I preferred mechanics earlier) and on/off feature is more important for you than having good modulation. But 4-pot hopes are more powerful anyway, they have good modulation and no problems with whips. They are strong enough to take impacts, WTF else do you need, those who complaining about how bad hope brakes are? I don't get how Ali can "don't trust" to E4/V4 with 183-203 rotors. Power is so much the only thing left to worry about is tyre grip in any conditions. Also funny thing about SRAM/Avid, they do best mechanics in the world but at the same time worst hydraulics in the world. Edited October 15, 2014 by Clerictgm mk2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niconj Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 (edited) ... Isn't TRA running the BB7 on his bike? If it doesn't limit him, it doesn't limit you. The BB7s are very good brakes, when setup with linear housings, standard sintered pads and Shimano rotors (Just because the Avids are never really true from the start). I agree with you that the lever feel is worse but pretty much every hydraulic brake has a better lever feel than mechanics. Oh and I have come to conclude. I'm not a good enough rider to be able to say anything about how some brakes are better than others. I ran Shimanos on my bike and was very happy with their performance until the caliper broke. Now I ride Hope Trialzones and am very happy with their performance. I'd rate them the same but, as I said, I don't do any 10foot drop gaps or whatever, where the Hopes might perform worse than Saints. Edited October 15, 2014 by niconj 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clerictgm mk2 Posted October 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 I didn't say that BB7 are bad. And I specified that mine were crap. Probably because of TR rotors, other stuff were good. Anyway 4-pot Hope is better in everything, the only "con" is price for those who cares about it. But I don't think that 300-500 eur is high for great brakes that'll serve you for many years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dann2707 Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 Just ride your f**king bike. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezmtber Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 Oi dummy what are you trying to say? Hope v4/trial, saint/zee, and many other dh brake setups will work for trials and they all have great hold simples there's no debate about it unless you have used them all on a trials bike and are capable of riding like a noob and pro all in one ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clerictgm mk2 Posted October 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 (edited) Oi dummy what are you trying to say? Hope v4/trial, saint/zee, and many other dh brake setups will work for trials and they all have great hold simples there's no debate about it unless you have used them all on a trials bike and are capable of riding like a noob and pro all in one ride. Ali said that V4 has no hold and he don't trust them, LUL. Just ride your f**king bike. I'm waiting for console or arcade. And I'm unable to ride till next season (mar-april 15) because of some reason. Also what about sponsorship? Fishing rod company pay to riders for using ZEINDZ or not? Edited October 15, 2014 by Clerictgm mk2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bing Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 (edited) Because they've finally locked you up for behaving like a twat? Edited October 15, 2014 by bing 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filo Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 I used Bb7 on on the rear of my 26trials bike for 2.5 years. I can honestly say that they were the best rear disc brakes I ran. There was never any slip, always grabbed, always modulated well. I really enjoyed using them. It was all in the set up. Most important was the older light grey caliper were the ones you want. There the 1 piece caliper. Once they went away from this there was way to much caliper flex when grabbed( there were the dark grey one) Xtr v levers Odyssey liner slick cables Red ebc pads 8in rotors, found the clean sweeps the most consistent with braking hold(rear rotor on backwards, helped stop bending on big drop gaps) I also used to put triflow down the cable, also stuck the nipple into some grease(this reduces all possible friction) I never had any issues, lubed the cable every 6 months, and slightly adjusted the pads. The down side was that frames like to break at the disc mounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clerictgm mk2 Posted October 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 Filo, custom pads, XTR levers, odyssey cables, it brings the price close to hopes. So it's kinda weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filo Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 True, however the reliability is there. Plus you don't need to worry about re bleeds etc. On my arcade I'm using the standard hope brakes, I've managed to loosen the banjo bolt with my foot on 2 seperate rides, oil every where, needed new pads, since that I've changed the banjo to a straight adaptor and put a standard bolt in the bleed. Haven't had any issue for months after doing that. I wrecked hard today and smashed my tech 3 lever. Let's just say it's going to be fun next bleed(ground the bolt head down) As for cost on the brakes, I brought my xtr levers for $60 and the bb7 for $40 each. All new all on eBay. Didn't really cost that much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clerictgm mk2 Posted October 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 (edited) Reliability is what Hope famous for. Braided hoses and no worry about broken hose 4life. Re-bleeds? Why? Maybe once a 3 years just prophylactically. And this is no harder than re-set BB7 after pads changing. So, you have an impacting expirience of tech 3, can you say that tech 2 is stronger to impacts after that? Edited October 15, 2014 by Clerictgm mk2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filo Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 In my experience I found the tech 2 levers handled crashes way better. The flush master cylinder helps, plus the top bolt took most of the force. I've never had full reliability with my hopes. They have always needed some tlc from the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clerictgm mk2 Posted October 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 (edited) Yep, it seems that tech3 are a bit weaker, not surprising because it's lighter than tech 2. Edited October 15, 2014 by Clerictgm mk2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clerictgm mk2 Posted October 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Found some info about piston sizes on HOPE brakes: X2 - 14мм М4 - all 16мм V2 - 25мм V4 - 16+18мм Trial Zone - 25мм Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isitafox Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Well done, you must be proud 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.Wood Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Fishing rod company pay to riders for using ZEINDZ or not? Just wading into this here... Are you saying Shimano are crap because they make fishing rods? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bing Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Just wading into this here... Are you saying Shimano are crap because they make fishing rods? Yes he is. And he's said it a number of times as well. Along with most trials parts being chineeeeeeeeeeeese sheeeeeeeeeetttttt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.Wood Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Righto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Found some info about piston sizes on HOPE brakes: X2 - 14мм М4 - all 16мм V2 - 25мм V4 - 16+18мм Trial Zone - 25мм So Trial Zone is ~22% more powerful than M4 then and ~8% more than V4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clerictgm mk2 Posted October 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 So Trial Zone is ~22% more powerful than M4 then and ~8% more than V4. Nope. Pads square(to be more accurate - contact area) must be included in calculations, because constant of friction includes square of contacting surfaces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.Wood Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Just wading into this here... Are you saying Shimano are crap because they make fishing rods? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamilyBiker Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) Nope. Pads square(to be more accurate - contact area) must be included in calculations, because constant of friction includes square of contacting surfaces. sorry,but think about a bike technichians words when he says "the manufacturers ALWAYS make their calculation with the best circumstances possible" that includes square contact,straight rotor,absolutely no air in the system,no bends in the hose,a defined friction coefficient of the tire,a defined spoke tension etc pp and so on.some even dont make themselves the hassle of testing on a real bicycle,they use a testing machine with a roll thats accelerated to a certain mass and speed and then stopped in different pulses.what you read about the braking power in their catalogue later is just those values they've got scientists to do that,i think youre going too far again with your opinion being the only truth.comparing laboratory results to real riding is the main problem because everyones setup is slightly different (which starts with the frame being used) edit:just saying,friction on a brake never is linear or constant,it changes due to surrounding factors changing,like air humidity... but hey,you wanted to take everything into account haha Edited October 16, 2014 by FamilyBiker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clerictgm mk2 Posted October 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) So Trial Zone is ~22% more powerful than M4 then and ~8% more than V4. Also saints has 15 and 17mm pistons, so it's weaker than V4 by this logic. Lever is also must be included in calculations. It seems that saints has longer level, but to compensate it longer travel they using this fancy "servowave", so you get power and good feel of the lever. I don't understand only one thing, servowave must be must have for trials, but why people need it in other disciplines? And why they need this maggie level bite and hold? FamilyBiker You're right, but it doesn't mean you can't compare 2 brakes in similar lab conditions and find out what's better in concrete parameters. Edited October 17, 2014 by Clerictgm mk2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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