Clerictgm mk2 Posted September 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2014 (edited) Yeah but holdwise the Saints are more than enough. It seems that saints have poor quality and problems with spares + reliability is not so good as Hopes. Edited September 8, 2014 by Clerictgm mk2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bing Posted September 8, 2014 Report Share Posted September 8, 2014 If you can find the parts, you want old 2010 xt levers and m810 calipers. One of the best brake combos going Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted September 8, 2014 Report Share Posted September 8, 2014 It seems that saints have poor quality and problems with spares + reliability is not so good as Hopes. my saints are 4 years old (and second hand) and have never been bled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted September 8, 2014 Report Share Posted September 8, 2014 More pistons doesn't necessarily mean more power... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niconj Posted September 8, 2014 Report Share Posted September 8, 2014 my saints are 4 years old (and second hand) and have never been bled. I second that but only with them 810s. The newer ones apparently brake, even though I cannot figure out why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamilyBiker Posted September 8, 2014 Report Share Posted September 8, 2014 (edited) thehihopsoldier pretty much got it right,but have to agree with adam too. more slave pistons mean more power if the master piston remains the same. just force>>surface>>>pressure>>>surface>>>force if you look at the hydraulic system.but levers are a factor too. but most brakes change master piston diameter according to how much slaves there are,so the power isnt thaaaat much more (sure is in most cases but not by times)but the modulation is increasing,because you have "steps" in the power diagram.the pistons move out depending on how you pull the lever and how far and so on. hydraulic brakes arent really a simple press,with multipiston systems and features like servo wave a lot of factors come into play Edited September 8, 2014 by FamilyBiker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK92 Posted September 8, 2014 Report Share Posted September 8, 2014 Hope Trial Zone, Tech 3 lever w Jitsie Pads works AMAZING and Im 225 lbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEON Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 (edited) M810 Saints from new should last ages as long as you're not doing stupid things to them that break them. I've had mine 18 months from new and they're perfect. Buying used is another story, there's usually only one reason people sell Saints, because they broke them, I've bought used Saints to find out they're leaking, don't forget they're 5 years old now. I'd rather buy Saints every 3 or 4 years than use a Hope for 10 years, lever blade flapping in the wind. I also don't like the fact Hope wont get with it & use post mount calipers. Edited September 9, 2014 by LEON Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niconj Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 I also don't like the fact Hope wont get with it & use post mount calipers. But the Saints are PM as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEON Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 I know, and so are nearly all modern brakes, except Hope... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niconj Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 (edited) I know, and so are nearly all modern brakes, except Hope... But hope does have PM brakes as well. Edited September 9, 2014 by niconj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEON Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Then they should do it more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beedlo Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 I hate the new short levers which is why I'm still running the older style brake. A trialzone for street will glaze over pretty easily from my experience. You'd be better off with the 4 pot DH brake (although they have too much pad wobble for my liking) I've ordered a new pair of MT5 brakes, might mate them up with my saint levers to get the advantage of the servo wave. If the other MT brakes are anything to go by, power shouldn't be an issue I just received an MT5 a couple days ago. Heres for first impressions after bedding in. Feels more powerful than both M810 & M820. Less pad knock. The lever feels sluggish and yucky though, compared to the crisp snappy feeling Shimano levers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clerictgm mk2 Posted September 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 I think I'll try some 4-cylinders hopes (V4/M4/E4) with 203mm rotors for a start. Then maybe buy a saints and compare Saints vs Hope vs BB7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niconj Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 I think I'll try some 4-cylinders hopes (V4/M4/E4) with 203mm rotors for a start. Then maybe buy a saints and compare Saints vs Hope vs BB7. After having fitted Trialzones today I think that they are well up there with the Saints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clerictgm mk2 Posted September 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 After having fitted Trialzones today I think that they are well up there with the Saints. What difference between V2 and trialzones? What special in trialzones at all? It seems that it's just X2 with larger piston and race lever? And about saints M810, they are not made anymore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niconj Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) What difference between V2 and trialzones? What special in trialzones at all? It seems that it's just X2 with larger piston and race lever? And about saints M810, they are not made anymore? The 810s aren't made anymore but you can get the lever, the hose and the caliper independently and build one. The Trialzones have a 25mm piston. I don't know the size of the V2's piston but if it's smaller, there's less power. As for the Tech lever. It just so happened that I could compare my race lever with them and even though the two adjustment screws are a nice feature, I don't need it. I like the bite point close to the handlebars and that's possible with the race lever adjustment. It's true that the bite point adjustment affects the lever reach but I feel very comfortable with it the way it is now. In short: - The Hope Tech lever offers reach and bite point adjustment independent from each other. - The Hope Tech lever is heavier - If the V2s have a smaller piston then they are less powerful - If the Trialzones are even more powerful with a Hope rotor and Jitsie pads (compared to my SLX rotor and standard Hope pads), then the V2s with that setup can't impossibly be too weak. - The Saints (I've got a 810 lever paired to a Zee caliper with Goodridge braided hoses and a IS->PM adapter + Screws + EBC RedStuff pads) are 150gr. heavier than my Trialzones (caliper No.3 = no adaptor needed with a 180mm rotor) - The Saints feel more like an on/off brake in comparison to the Trialzones which transfer the power more progressively (my opinion) which gives you more modulation All in all you won't regret buying either brake even though I like the Hopes more as they offer spares, which isn't the case with Shimano and!!!! I have never read anything about Hopes braking like my Zee caliper did just the other day (on the rear). Zee by niconj, on Flickr Hope that helps with your decision. Edited September 12, 2014 by niconj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clerictgm mk2 Posted September 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) V2 has the same piston diameter(25mm). About saints - I want to try it, but as long as shimano are a retarded company (why to end production of such an awesome and successful product?) I don't really see any capability to try them (I'm too lazy to order levers+calipers separately and building it up). I don't get one thing: why no one uses 4-cylinder hopes in street-trials? M4/E4 are pretty light V4 are crazy powerful and all this with better modulation than 2-cylinder ones. Edited September 12, 2014 by Clerictgm mk2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niconj Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) V2 has the same piston diameter(25mm). About saints - I want to try it, but as long as shimano are a retarded company (why to end production of such an awesome and successful product?) I don't really see any capability to try them (I'm 1. too lazy to order levers+calipers separately and building it up). I don't get one thing: 2. why no one uses 4-cylinder hopes in street-trials? M4/E4 are pretty light V4 are crazy powerful and all this with better modulation than 2-cylinder ones. 1. It's really not that difficult and done in half an hour 2. Because everyone is using Saints. And I guess the 4pot Hopes are too expensive and heavy compared to the Trialzones. Also, if the wheel is locked, it's locked. With Trialzones, Saints or V4s. You don't really need more power. Having said that, if it wasn't for the squishy lever feel on the rear, the BB7s would be right up there as well. Edited September 12, 2014 by niconj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clerictgm mk2 Posted September 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) What's the most brake-abusing moves? BH gaps to rear like that and dropgaps? Edited September 12, 2014 by Clerictgm mk2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niconj Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 What's the most brake-abusing moves? BH gaps to rear like that and dropgaps? This and gaps to front I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEON Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 I think one reason saints get used a lot is the brake is much more firm than a hope, all the hope trial brakes I've felt are very spongey in comparison. That works for some people with wrist problems etc, but I definitely prefer the shimano feel. I think these days shimano make better disc brakes than Hope. Although Hope will sell you spares and sort you out while shimano will just laugh at you from a distance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 no servo wave-no care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clerictgm mk2 Posted September 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) LAWLWUT? hope has no servo wave? WTF? Hope brakes are just a simple hydraulic press? Edited September 12, 2014 by Clerictgm mk2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamilyBiker Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 cmon,dont get your funny moment,mate. imo the most abusive situation for a disc brake is hanging on the edge of something trying to bounce yourself up-backwards force ahoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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