bing Posted July 2, 2014 Report Share Posted July 2, 2014 +1 I would agree on that. It also annoys me the amount of riders who choose to go to bash or pedal constantly. Why can they not go to wheels? Kind of fits in with the whole riders being in wrong categories People in the lower classes such as novice and primary aren't good enough to be tyres only, but certainly the rule could be extended to intermediate. I'm a novice class rider, and am guilty of bashing or pedal down now and again, but some stuff I couldn't through without it. Tyres only is a good rule, it certainly works in expert and elite, I think it should be extended to cadet and inters as well 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivian-Trial Posted July 2, 2014 Report Share Posted July 2, 2014 People in the lower classes such as novice and primary aren't good enough to be tyres only, but certainly the rule could be extended to intermediate. I'm a novice class rider, and am guilty of bashing or pedal down now and again, but some stuff I couldn't through without it. Tyres only is a good rule, it certainly works in expert and elite, I think it should be extended to cadet and inters as well Its understandable for primary n novice as its good practice. But when its Cadet/Expert then its wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bing Posted July 2, 2014 Report Share Posted July 2, 2014 Cadet you can use pedals/bash, expert is tyres only. But I agree, going to tyre/ wheel is better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave33 Posted July 2, 2014 Report Share Posted July 2, 2014 Not really got much to do with the dwindling number of entries but what gets me about British Trials is that British Cycling couldn't give a flying f**k about it. They have no interest due to the fact (and this came from someone who works for British Cycling) that it's not exciting enough for spectators?! If they put even half as much into trials as they do with some of the other cycling genres we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Apparently there is a new member of British cycling in charge so can only be positive. But totally agree how annoying it was that it dropped down to 1 person who had already made his mind up that trials is shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezmtber Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 British cycling doesn't even have a trial rider on there uci trials page. the pic is actually someone i work with on his road bike and i have told British cycling to sort it out several times, they really don't care for trials at all.https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/events/details/20420/UCI-Bike-Trials-World-Cup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 Hang around for 10 years dribbling about comp formats and quote anybody’s name all you want but its my 10, 15, 20 quid that goes into supporting the scene every time I ride a Scottish, British, whateverish comp - old or new format. I was "quoting anybody's name" because you appeared to be implying it was only a few people in the UK who were saying it when that isn't the case, but if you're preferring to avoid that and start talking about supporting the scene, I try to do that if I can, hence me sending e-mails like this to people I think might be able to make something cool happen: If you want to talk about directly doing stuff, the comp I put on had more people attend than pretty much all comps in the UK do, and also had one of the biggest prize funds of any comp there's been in the UK (I can't remember the exact figure but there was over £1k of prizes given out). I'm not trying to be all "check me out", but just because I don't ride comps any more doesn't mean I don't have an interest in how popular they are, and consequently how trials is as a whole in the UK. EDIT: And yes, "Hoof foot stump dick" is Stan's real name. EDIT 2: Did you call the people who tried to abolish the gears rule "gear complainers", and the people who tried to abolish the boot rule as "boot complainers"? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevind Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 Wow some realy positve thoughts and hopefully something will be done about British cycling and its attitude to trials. That perhaps will not fix the grass roots low entry problems but I am sure it would help. Look at the spectator numbers for the tour! People if they know something is on will come along especially if its free. City centre trials/demos are I believe the way forward or taking a trial onto a bigger event as previously mentioned. But it takes huge effort and time and money, so perhaps thats where British cycling get involved and bring it to the public as it is a brilliant spectator sport and it lasts all day, not just once as they go past. But to go a bit negative, when I started this club, Scottish cycling sent me an em after I requested a page on their website, that they did not recognise bike trials as a sport and couldn't help. It has UCI status at the world champs so where they can state that is beyond me. I have em them in recent weeks and not had one reply. Maybe its about time the trials community stood up and lobbied British Cycling to recognise trials and help bring it in to the future! The Bike Trial Federation do a brilliant job year in year out and have an AGM everyyear where riders voices can be heard. More rider input on what the riders want and I am sure it will be listened to. European versions of British cycling give a huge amount of help to trials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 Maybe its about time the trials community stood up and lobbied British Cycling to recognise trials and help bring it in to the future! Were you at the AGM this year Kevin? (Sorry, can't remember) Basically they don't care about us at all, and I can't think what could be done to turn that around. Frustrating! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 I'd imagine that last part is kind of a Catch 22 with money at the root of it - to make £'s out of trials they'd need to put money into it, but if they're not making £'s out of trials now they won't want to put money into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 Guess so. However, one of the reasons they cited for NOT helping was that BTUK is currently self-sufficient (with a small surplus)., so it's not like they've have to lob cash at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 I was actually wondering if the way that trials has just been getting on with things might have made BC think there was less requirement for them to get involved. If they see the main body in the UK managing things financially by themselves, and with no real idea of the potential number of riders out there they could sucker into getting BC membership if they were to support trials comps, it probably wouldn't look worth the effort to get involved with it. Another stumbling block might be the way that their funding comes from 'Partners' and Sport England who want them to "promote cycling at a grass roots level", and that's not really something that can be done with trials in the same way as - say - road riding. There's no coverage of trials events in any kind of bike-related websites online, virtually none at all within the trials world itself and very few members of the general public spectating so for them to justify spending money on it to the people who are backing BC might be difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulotrialsrider Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 I was actually wondering if the way that trials has just been getting on with things might have made BC think there was less requirement for them to get involved. If they see the main body in the UK managing things financially by themselves, and with no real idea of the potential number of riders out there they could sucker into getting BC membership if they were to support trials comps, it probably wouldn't look worth the effort to get involved with it. Another stumbling block might be the way that their funding comes from 'Partners' and Sport England who want them to "promote cycling at a grass roots level", and that's not really something that can be done with trials in the same way as - say - road riding. There's no coverage of trials events in any kind of bike-related websites online, virtually none at all within the trials world itself and very few members of the general public spectating so for them to justify spending money on it to the people who are backing BC might be difficult. Totally agree with the latter. It's a sport that needs more coverage, but with that you need there to be more competitions too - which are more accessible - and also you need them to be exciting. Most riders put on a good show, but some do tar the sport with very drab boring rides - do you want to be standing in a field in the back end of nowhere watching someone bash and drag their bike around a few rocks ... perhaps whilst getting wet... or.... Change that to a city centre car park - how many more people will a) be passing and stop to watch - take time out their calendar to plan to go into the town and watch it (then grab a coffee or go shopping whilst there). Demos are good - but competitions, especially a British national should be more entertaining, all variations of levels and riders. I did speak to a chap at our trial the other week who took his son to Blackpool for the national, and bought him his first bike to ride the week before, he didn't enter the national, but was amazed at what he called lack of spectators for a national trial. Perhaps more promotional work involved in the areas prior to the trial - but again its money and you need the riders to re-coup that money. I see a lot of really good riders hardly ever attend comps however - with most being perhaps busy or just not bothering. If there was incentive there to ride them, perhaps coverage or more money, you would get bigger entries? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevind Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 (edited) I was to attend the AGM. I did put forward points on behalf of the Scottish club for the future and had a vote on the points raised after the AGM. I unfortunatley had a trapped nerve in my neck which made driving long distances very painfull. Totally agree with all points raised above. Venues need to be in higher profile venues and with spectator access if trials is to grow. It maybe that this will be a point for this years AGM. Perhaps next year the clubs that have done British events, have a think of where they can do a trial that seems to be what the riders are requesting. But also riders need to stand up and help the few people that do these, then we will perhaps have a Championship going in a new direction. Negative points. Fort William has the biggest spectator numbers and yes they are there for the DH, but they still come and watch. I put in seven days of work up there (300 mile round trip) to get new sections built that resemble a modern section with two diggers (at cost). If I could, I would have had all eight in the arena but that cant happen yet! 36 riders made the effort? and nearly half were Scottish. Budgets may have to be prepared, even to cover increased costs for these public events and then we can go to BC with a program saying look here is what we intend todo for the future, and it is going to cost this. Grass roots trials at club level have to also move and put on more spectator friendly events, by tacking onto other public events where they can. That is what I try to do with the Scottish events where I can. Prize fund, but only for the top one or two classes would be good but from where? BC? I will ask for Fort William next year from the main organiser? The top guys live on there demo work or speaking to some have to work weekends which is the way it is. I dont have an answer for that one. Edited July 8, 2014 by kevind 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 ...tacking onto other public events where they can. Which kind/type of events do you mean, out of interest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isitafox Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 I assume he means things like Woodfest/Tartydays or having similar setups to the Sheffield Galvanize event at UK Downhill venues on racedays/weekends maybe? If you could get the support I reckon you could get 5-6 man made sections put together and run small trials comps though they'd be pretty limited in terms of difficulty, would either have to be for the lower classes or Elite stuff but you could still have a give it a go section like Tarty ran. Obviously there's a lot of logistics involved which I know nothing about so all this could be complete bollocks I'm talking! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulotrialsrider Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 I assume he means things like Woodfest/Tartydays or having similar setups to the Sheffield Galvanize event at UK Downhill venues on racedays/weekends maybe? If you could get the support I reckon you could get 5-6 man made sections put together and run small trials comps though they'd be pretty limited in terms of difficulty, would either have to be for the lower classes or Elite stuff but you could still have a give it a go section like Tarty ran. Obviously there's a lot of logistics involved which I know nothing about so all this could be complete bollocks I'm talking! I could be wrong here, but to run a trial over 8 sections 2 laps requires a fair amount of time to get round (riders). To put a trial in Tartydays - you would lose the best part of a day to the competition meaning other riders couldn't use the materials / obstacles, probably one reason why those don't run in conjunction. Sheffield event would be good - but i reckon wasn't a 2 minute task to get together. I know Tyke ran a demo in York for 3/4 riders before. I think an actual competition is always good too - people who may want to get into the sport would certainly see the "skill level" involved to ride. (ie white not being too challenging for a capable bike rider) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isitafox Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 I didn't mean run a comp within something like Tartydays I meant have more events like the one in Sheffield in the venue of bigger events like what happened with Tartydays when it was at Woodfest in 2011(?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevind Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 (edited) What I try to do is tie in with cycling events. Aviemore last year 1500 people through the gate. Not on this year, but hopefully next year. All on 700 tons of very grippy rock we moved to make sections last year. Onsite facilities, toilets bar, resturant hotel pool, sauna office facilities. Kirkliston was again to be at their cycling festival but they are not very good at organising dates. Killin falls, centre of the village and a huge tourist attraction and loved by the riders. always goes down well with everybody. Hotel right on the doorstep. I constantly get requests to help organise or layout trials at festivals or bike venues, but I only have so much time! Tried to tie one ih with SSDT last year but was told to give us money to advertise your event in the program. The club does not have that kind of money. Fort William is the big one each year. Other than Bob Macgregor which some of you rode last year, but again great venue with onsite facilities and the best cakes in the world. I try to organise and find venues with something else that will attract spectators, some fail but if you do not try! Never been to the Tarty days or other ones, but Barrow farm seemed to be as stated above, that the trials soaked up to much of the venue for to long, so trials events perhaps not the way to go for comps other than perhaps only the top class (s) with prize money on maybe four sections. They seem to well enough on there own. Perhaps (suggestion only) that the way to go is for only the top riders to ride at these events on less sections but with increasing difficulty through the knock out system. Maybe like the worlds with a junior and Elite route. but then no elites would turn up for second place! But that perhaps would bring through a younger generation of elites. My opinion is British championship should have a min level of ability that you gain at club events. I know the arguments against this. Other BRITISH chamionships all have only the best riders competing with perhaps the newer riders coming through. Think Big what about putting on a trial along with something like the British superbike champs. If it doesnt cost them or cost much for entertainment then who knows. I would ask up here but for fifteen to twenty riders of very mixed experiance, wouldnt sell, but if you sell them the top ten in Britian then perhaps. But I would expect to cover expensise and prize money. Just putting it out there for comment? Edited July 8, 2014 by kevind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezmtber Posted July 9, 2014 Report Share Posted July 9, 2014 Everyone should haggle with there local trail centre or bike park to get them to build or yourself on there land close to there visitor centres, a good size trials venue,with the hopes of building these venues up to size for our national events so we can be in the spotlight more. localy to me i can send mails out to lallangela, Delamere, Cannock chase, dimmingsdale ect.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevind Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 I have a meeting in a few weeks about that with a huge new bike centre that is being biult on the outskirts of Edinburgh. It is a private company, so there may be issues with costs as trials riders tend not to pay for areas to ride, as by nature of the sport we dont need to, (I have mentioned this and they are still wanting to talk. Here in Haddington we are fund raising for a BMX/Skate park that will have a fixed trials area as well, but not enough for a comp without a lot of extras being put in for a weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bing Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 The national at bracken rocks will be using tape where required to ensure no 'cheat' lines. I don't mind people going for the big dab instead of a sidehop etc but I don't like the sneaky round flag riding so it will be set out so that can't happen. Are you coming to observe Dan? Yes mate I'm in, have sorted it out with your Gill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isitafox Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 I have a meeting in a few weeks about that with a huge new bike centre that is being biult on the outskirts of Edinburgh. It is a private company, so there may be issues with costs as trials riders tend not to pay for areas to ride, as by nature of the sport we dont need to, (I have mentioned this and they are still wanting to talk. Here in Haddington we are fund raising for a BMX/Skate park that will have a fixed trials area as well, but not enough for a comp without a lot of extras being put in for a weekend. There's a local downhill centre near me and the owner has said he'd be interested in setting up a trials section but I just haven't got the time to go and sort something properly with him currently. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevind Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 I am sure somebody in the area would be able to help if that seems to be the way forward? These areas we are talking about would be easier to set up if it has some natural sections to mark out with or without the addition of artificial parts, then a completly artificial area.It just takes an initial visit and a chat to see if the area is viable. Then organise a work day through the club to get started. When I organised enduros and trials thats the way we did it. The trials scene all though very friendly has no CLUB social scene, thats maybe because I am up North and more than likley that everybody is pretty spread out. If the changes are to happen then it will take effort from the current riders and families to help get different venues up and running and not just the same few that do it year in year out. Up to everybody involved in Britian to make the changes and change is a hard thing sometimes, but it usually changes for the better if everybody is involved. We have been involved for four years now and from a personal opinion, last year was great fun as we had new venues and I like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevind Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 On Ross's thread about MBUK trials articals when they gave two or even more pages each month to trials, maybe someone who knows someone needs to get the main stream mags to start putting articals back in. Doing that is what I am not good at, so any budding media people out there willing to start the ball rolling and bring trials back on the up. The trials motorbike mag has started doing a monthly artical on bike trials, so its a start. Anybody? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross McArthur Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 What ever happened to actually giving out the prizes donated by sponsors? Does that not happen anymore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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