Sam Song Posted June 7, 2014 Report Share Posted June 7, 2014 (edited) I have had my King for about 4 years now, and it occasionally skips one or two engagements. While I did clean it, I might have to get a King hub tool and do a complete rebuild, instead of just taking the driveshell out (which I already did, and it still skips a bit). It's just ridiculous how expensive the King hub tool is, and I will not risk giving my King hub to a bike shop. Before I buy the King hub tool, I need to decide whether I will stick with a King rear hub for my future trials frames (which will make the cost of king hub tool worth it) or move on to front freewheel. So I want to ask, which one is safer between a King hub and an Echo SL freewheel (possibly the best freewheel on the market right now)? I have seen plenty of King hubs skip and I have seen plenty of broken SL freewheels. If you are going to talk about how freewheel makes the weight more centered, or is cheaper to buy, I am not really interested. When it comes to drivetrain, I want to go for the one that is safer regardless of weight or price. I will not consider a Hope hub since they come with pawls that can break instead of King hub's stronger internals. Share your thoughts here! Edited June 7, 2014 by Sam Song Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted June 7, 2014 Report Share Posted June 7, 2014 I will not consider a Hope hub since they come with pawls that can break instead of King hub's stronger internals. Not really true I'm funny about king hubs because when they skip, they spin and you're pretty much f**ked. When a freewheel/hope skips it generally just skips to the next engagement of the ratchet. you can send your king off to tarty and they'll sort it for you, i'd ask for adam to do it though, as jamie moxon had some issues with his from them. Echo Sl's are pretty good, there's a lot of them broken because there is a lot of them sold. They're cheap though so people don't mind shelling out £60 once a year or so when theirs go bang. however freehubs are more of a long term thing. I ain't keen on freewheels, but there's no real reason why. My two cents anywayzzzzzzzzzzzzz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack dickinson Posted June 7, 2014 Report Share Posted June 7, 2014 (edited) if you gonna get a front freewheel, get a jitsie, mean to be better thn the echo's also their a tenner cheaper Edited June 7, 2014 by jack dickinson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dman Posted June 7, 2014 Report Share Posted June 7, 2014 A friend is running a Jitsie 108 on his zoot now, couple months use no skips, sounds good aswell, not hope good but good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HippY Posted June 7, 2014 Report Share Posted June 7, 2014 I will not consider a Hope hub since they come with pawls that can break instead of King hub's stronger internals. Honestly, take a look around here in this forum and look for freehub bikes 10/9 will have pro2 Hope, from pure trial machines, that are in regular use(=longevity >small weight gain) and at street bikes, there are no other question. Personally I have a well used hope pro 2 hub, and apart from that it is really loud (I love it :$) it seem to hold up quite nicely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Song Posted June 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2014 (edited) Echo Sl's are pretty good, there's a lot of them broken because there is a lot of them sold. They're cheap though so people don't mind shelling out £60 once a year or so when theirs go bang. however freehubs are more of a long term thing. The freewheel cost is not the problem here. Many people do not have proper sprocket tools, a fixed vice, and a extension bar at home. removing trials front sprocket or front freewheel is a huge pain the arse, not to mention that frequent removal of freewheel and reinstalling can result in stripped threads. Edited June 7, 2014 by Sam Song Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted June 7, 2014 Report Share Posted June 7, 2014 you can send your king off to tarty and they'll sort it for you, i'd ask for adam to do it though, as jamie moxon had some issues with his from them. The spring in that hub was stretched to buggery, we recommended a new one but he said no. Customer is always right... On topic, don't discount a Hope because of the system it uses, it is the same as the SL freewheel after all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete.M Posted June 7, 2014 Report Share Posted June 7, 2014 Another vote for considering Hope hubs. None of mine have ever skipped, whereas my King hub did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsMatt Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 My two cents anywayzzzzzzzzzzzzz I saw you type this and it feels strange reading it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezmtber Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 I cant say anything about king hubs as i have only had little goes on them, what i have tryed they feel nice. i have used ffw and hope pro 2. and without a doubt the hope pro 2 is much better than any ffw i have ever run. fyi... I have never seen a hope pawl or drive ring snapped on 15 years of mechanics. i do see them newer pro2 springs snap but there £1 for a full set, and its usualy only one of four. and i have seen the geared alloy freehub body's snap on half on the evo hubs. (the springs broke due to corrosion on xc/road bikes and the geared hubs aren't for trials) but the trial/ss hubs just seem bombproof, had mine on for over a year only replaced one bearing just because i felt like it, it was a little knotchy. my chain snapped the kmc master link recently too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsbikingnunn Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 +1 for hope hubs. Had mine on my mod for a year now and only opened it up a few times when I got it to keep it clean but I don't think I've opened it up to clean it in at least 10 months and it still works perfectly! Never had it skip on me or know anyone who's had one skip. I've got one on my XC bike aswell and that's perfect too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartMini Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 gotta join the hope band wagon. Had mine for years, took it apart once to check it was clean. Never skipped, every engagement is always loud and positive. Echo sl's are really hit and miss. i've got one good one out of 4/5 dodgy ones (with a couple of them, being brought from new). I found with the echo sl's, the pawls wear against the center casing, which then allows the pawl's to 'pop' out of the casing a bit, getting jammed and therefore becoming useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigjames Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 fyi... I have never seen a hope pawl or drive ring snapped on 15 years of mechanics. Not trying to be argumentative, but really?! Just out of the people I ride with i've seen 4-5, we used to get a few through the shop with snapped/stripped drive rings and snapped pawls when i worked there. Personally, I've stripped a few drive rings, but they've always been sorted by hope. The King i had was brilliant, no issues with it really, keep it clean, bed it in properly and it'll treat you right. You do read some reports of getting a solid one can be a little hit and miss. Plus the additional cost over a Hope or a FFW in my opinion isn't really justifiable. With respect to Echo SL FFW, been running one of the original one's I bought second hand 3-4 years ago, it's never skipped and still feels solid. I swapped the FW body and lock ring with an Echo Ti FW about 2 years ago and the internals were still looking fresh, once again keep it clean and lubed up and it'll be fine. On the flip side i've seen the outer drive rings crack/snap and internals disintegrate on other peoples bikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.Wood Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 My King went to shit, even after services by both the importer and Tarty, skipped a full rotation on a horrible up to front and I had enough and sold him on. Got an original Pro2T, snapped hub shell. Got another one free, snapped hub shell again. Got another free one, stripped the ratchet ring. Had enough, sold him on and got a White Industries FFW, was ok but lockring kept coming loose. SL's came out, and I've had about 5 over the course of about 5 years. So nothing is fantastic, SLs are good and I believe Hope have sorted the problems with the Pro2's now. They were excellent when they worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HippY Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 My King went to shit, even after services by both the importer and Tarty, skipped a full rotation on a horrible up to front and I had enough and sold him on. Got an original Pro2T, snapped hub shell. Got another one free, snapped hub shell again. Got another free one, stripped the ratchet ring. Had enough, sold him on and got a White Industries FFW, was ok but lockring kept coming loose. SL's came out, and I've had about 5 over the course of about 5 years. So nothing is fantastic, SLs are good and I believe Hope have sorted the problems with the Pro2's now. They were excellent when they worked. It seems like you are killing freewheels in general, no matter the brand, condition, price or service Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake. Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 My King went to shit, even after services by both the importer and Tarty, skipped a full rotation on a horrible up to front and I had enough and sold him on. Got an original Pro2T, snapped hub shell. Got another one free, snapped hub shell again. Got another free one, stripped the ratchet ring. Had enough, sold him on and got a White Industries FFW, was ok but lockring kept coming loose. SL's came out, and I've had about 5 over the course of about 5 years. So nothing is fantastic, SLs are good and I believe Hope have sorted the problems with the Pro2's now. They were excellent when they worked. Damon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.Wood Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 Just a long time riding. I don't break that many parts, but my drivetrain gets quite a lot of shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamKidney Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 (edited) Only ever really used freewheels. Mostly Tensile/Echo. Tensiles were always wank, lasted about a month or so and would shit themselves. Degreased, bedded in yada yada.... My first SL was one of the older silver ones, that cracked in 3 places, bought another that lasted around a year, never skipped, but lost engagements, bought a third for my first 24" and that's the one I used up until selling my 2nd 24" after use on a few mods too. Was always spot on. Had a Typhoon briefly running a Pro 2 and couldn't fault it. After riding freewheels all the time going from 108 to 48 engagements was odd but soon got used to it. I trust both the pro2 and SLs. Edited June 8, 2014 by SamKidney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_Trials Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 The spring in that hub was stretched to buggery, we recommended a new one but he said no. Customer is always right... It wasn't on the service that there was any problems, it was when I sent it to you guys for the shell swap, I was riding along a gate and bailed it, bike fell and hit wheel pretty harsh sideways to be fair, hub then decided it'd spin freely both ways for some reason ha. Never had that problem since before but since the shell was swapped it happened on the first ride. Not to worry, just removed the drive shell slightly and popped it back in. All is well now though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdubz Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 If it is a case of not paying out for a tool, would it be worth sending it to tarty for a service/fix whatever the problem is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkshire Dale Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 I will not consider a Hope hub since they come with pawls that can break instead of King hub's stronger internals. ive had my pro 2 since summer 2009 and its been perfect!! ive never had it apart nor has it skipped bad enough to make me crash. plus if u watched the first round of the world cup u will have notice jack is running one and thats a good advertisment right there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 The thing that seems weird about discounting the Hope because it's got "pawls that can break" is that the Echo has "pawls that can break" that are smaller than the ones in the Hope hubs. The Hope pawls are serious business - I've chipped tiny bits of the tips of them off through wear before, but that's been it really. Even with that light damage they still work absolutely fine. You should check out AndyT's post on OTN about swapping from his King to a Hope. He was a die-hard King fan but switched to a new Hope hub and loves it. The engagement point thing isn't even an issue any more with the new 80-click ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dann2707 Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 I really dislike the new SLs. People can claim they haven't changed over time but they reallllly have in terms of quality. Been on too many group rides where people's new SLs have shat their outer ring to pieces. Hate to be that guy who claims that old stuff was better but from what I've seen, it's true. I have zero confidence in my "newish" SL it just feels different compared to my one from 2011. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manuel Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 The thing that seems weird about discounting the Hope because it's got "pawls that can break" is that the Echo has "pawls that can break" that are smaller than the ones in the Hope hubs. The Hope pawls are serious business - I've chipped tiny bits of the tips of them off through wear before, but that's been it really. Even with that light damage they still work absolutely fine. You should check out AndyT's post on OTN about swapping from his King to a Hope. He was a die-hard King fan but switched to a new Hope hub and loves it. The engagement point thing isn't even an issue any more with the new 80-click ones. How long have they been 80 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 Some time They did a ratchet ring switcheroo so they've got a 40 tooth ratchet now instead of the 24 tooth ones before. Both Danny and Ali are running them in the Inspired in Barca video to give you an idea of how long they've been around... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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