Halal meat controversy

[ItsMatt]

Mans gotta eat, couldn't care less how it was killed. Would an animal care how you died? Nope.

well I would kill it by the easiest way possible.

for most animals that is killing and eating directly with their face but we have tools and why not just use the easiest way? no need to be a khunt about things

[Jake.]

If you look in the past humans have never really killed without using weapons, all we're doing nowadays is just using more advanced weapons. And there is no "wild" anymore, we simply grow our "wild" into our gardens/fields and chuck the animals straight into a machine to kill.

It is quite worrying how superior we have gotten as an animal to be honest when we're worrying how to kill animals in the nicest way possible!

[Pashley26]

This morning's Facebook gems.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=545_1345800806

http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/the-rt-hon-owen-paterson-mp-ban-halal-slaughter-in-the-united-kingdom

After some digging it would appear that the majority of Halal meat is not stunned prior to slaughter.

Sod it, giving vegetarian a try.

[Mark W]

After some digging it would appear that the majority of Halal meat is not stunned prior to slaughter.

But the British meat industry complained of “mischief-making”, pointing to research from the Food Standards Agency showing that 97 per cent of cattle, 90 per cent of sheep and 96 per cent of poultry were stunned before slaughter.

The Muslim community is divided over whether stunning of animals is allowed before bleeding, though the majority of halal meat is stunned – 81 per cent of sheeps and goats and 88 per cent of poultry, according to the latest Food Standards Agency report available.

Seems like it is according to the FSA?

Also, "Sheeps" amuses me.

[Blake]

What annoys me the most is a large company operating in the UK is giving in to the demands of a religion that isn't common in those native to the country. I think it's ridiculous to encourage religion of any form as all it does is cause more harm than good (edgy I know)

In regards to how the animal dies, quick and painless is all that bother me. Don't think it's nice to make them feel pain at the end of their miserable lives.

If I was a company and muslim came up to me and said they want me to sell halal meat, I'd tell them to buy it somewhere else or deal with what I sell. Live in a country were your religion is practised and not come to ours and moan that it isn't.

[dngr2self]

What annoys me the most is a large company operating in the UK is giving in to the demands of a religion that isn't common in those native to the country. I think it's ridiculous to encourage religion of any form as all it does is cause more harm than good (edgy I know)

In regards to how the animal dies, quick and painless is all that bother me. Don't think it's nice to make them feel pain at the end of their miserable lives.

If I was a company and muslim came up to me and said they want me to sell halal meat, I'd tell them to buy it somewhere else or deal with what I sell. Live in a country were your religion is practised and not come to ours and moan that it isn't.

It wouldn't be very good business practice if your company was in a predominantly Muslim area. Thats what this is about at the end of the day. The right wing media are trying to make out that Muslims are forcing their beliefs on us when in actual fact its just businesses opening themselves up to a wider audience.

[JD™]

What annoys me the most is a large company operating in the UK is giving in to the demands of a religion that isn't common in those native to the country.

There's more females than males in the UK. Does that mean that there shouldn't be shops that sell mens clothing?

[Azarathal]

There's more females than males in the UK. Does that mean that there shouldn't be shops that sell mens clothing?

Last I checked I'm native to here and I'm a man, you imply men aren't native

[JD™]

At which point do we determine 'native' though? I'm a very patriotic guy, as plenty on here know. But plenty of the Halal eaters in this country are essentially 'native' too, in the same way I'm native even though my family a fair few generations back are from all over Europe. My point is that they live here, and a company is making a decision to cater for them. No-one is forcing anyone who has a problem with that to eat at Subway. Same as, luckily, you don't have to wear high heels.

[Pashley26]

But you cannot eat at Subway. Or Nandos. Or McDonald's. Or Pizza Express and then ask for "Non Hallal" meat.

Could you imagine the butt hurt if a company advertised that they sell "non Hallal" meat in the gloating morally superior way that companies are now?

[dann2707]

At the end of the day it all comes out the same colour.

[GavLawson]

What I can't understand is why kill the animal the halal method and then not mark it as halal? How are the muslims who take part in halal going to know it's good to eat?

Personally I think regulation is required. The halal method should be tested and then compared with the traditional british method. If it's not as humane then improve it to match our standards and they can say what they like to the animal before its killed I could care less about that.

[Mark W]

Quite often the only difference is that a prayer is said. For the most part, the animal is stunned then killed in a similar way to how it would be normally. There's quite a bit of info around about the differences 'n' stuff. The only real difference is that the UK is one of the few EU countries who allow animals to be killed without being stunned first on religious grounds, whereas non-stunned killing is banned in various other countries. As mentioned above though, the majority of them are stunned prior to being killed, so they aren't going to feel any pain or distress. Well, apart from whatever it was that was used to stun them in the first place

[bikeperson45]

Islam's the most annoying religion for me, never see the Jews kick up a fuss about this stuff.

[*gentlydoesit]

Kosher statment.

[williams]

As long as it tastes good, I don't give a f**kkkkkkkkk about if it's halal or whatever! Need my protein.

[Sam Nichols]

No idea, but I guess it could just be different interpretations of it? Similar to how with Christianity there's a load of different 'levels' of belief, and how much people take on board different parts of the bible.

Actually the interesting thing about Islam is that there already is an interpretation of the Qur'an that exists by way of the last messenger from god - the prophet Muhammad. This interpretation of how to live your life is called the Sunnah and essentially explains how Muhammad lived his life and includes his teachings etc

The general gist of it all is that if you follow the Sunnah then you'll be a 'good' Muslim. Where non-Muslims often get a bit confused is when they assume that an indiscretion instantly means that they're f**ked. It's just not the case. But everything you can think of like praying five times a day, growing a beard, halal food etc it's all from the teachings of Muhammad. One further thing, a Muslim doesn't HAVE to grow a beard and if they can't pray one of the five times a day they aren't instantly struck down. It's all about following the purest path as beat as they can.

I have a lot of time for Muslims.

To keep more on topic: I eat cheap meat that isn't locally sourced so I'm a party to animal cruelty, even if it is cruelty within the confines of the law. I also have no religious beliefs. So as far as I'm concerned it doesn't matter if my meat has been prepared by way of a religious ceremony or not.

Islam's one of the fastest growing religions in England so y'all better get used to delicious Halal meat.

[James Quigley]

I like meat, I eat meat, I don't care how the meat comes from the animal to my plate.

My view point is humans have been killing animals for a long time, and a sharp knife to the throat is definitely not the worst way an animal has died at the hands of a human.

Also lions etc tear their prey to pieces, that's barbaric so why not go on a big cat cull whilst blabbering on about the best methods of achieving a pork chop.

Edited May 10, 2014 by James Quigley

[anzo]

Also lions etc tear their prey to pieces, that's barbaric so why not go on a big cat cull whilst blabbering on about the best methods of achieving a pork chop.

Because the lion is a lion.

[Willeyeam]

I think comments along the lines of "killing animals has always been brutal why change" and, as above, "lions etc tear their prey to pieces", kind of miss the point. I studied history at Uni and did a module on Islam. In that i learned that the Halal method was partly introduced to cause as little pain as possible to the animal being slaughtered. Obviously technology has progressed (while religion has only stagnated) so that we now have the ability to slaughter animals in a way that causes them less pain than the traditional Halal method (without stunning), or indeed a lion tearing it's prey to pieces, and many people would like the option of eating meat from animals killed with the least distress possible. In most of Europe it is illegal to slaughter animals on mass for the production of meat without first stunning them. I would rather this were the case in the UK but failing that i don't think it is unreasonable that meat from non stunned animals should be labelled as such. I also can't see the problem with Halal meat from animals that were stunned and unconscious when their throat was slit, and i'm pretty sure that all the supermarkets have said that this was the case with their Halal meat, so to an extent i think this is a bit of scaremongering.

It's also a shame to see comments along the lines of "why should they come here and get their way", it's xenophobic at best, if not outright racist. I'm all for increasing religious freedom and multiculturalism up to the point where doing so infringes on the rights of others, and i think that is the case IF people are unknowingly eating meat from unstunned animals.

I've only read through half of this thread so i don't know if it's been mentioned but Sikhs cannot eat Halal meat yet many have unknowingly been doing so. But of course as a much smaller minority they haven't really been catered to.

[Mark W]

Wrapped that up with a top quality pun there, can't hate that.

[isitafox]

Are the same people crying about this going to be inquiring about the lives the chickens who laid the eggs the restaurant use had, or the practises used by the dairy farms their milk is sourced from? Pretty much every industry that involves using animals to get us produce of some sort is going to be shady as f**k once you start dipping down to the lower end of the cost range, or indeed if you're buying it from a fast food place where profits are key.

Living on a dairy farm I can honestly say that as far as milk goes the standards of living for the animals can't really be too low. If the cows aren't well fed and comfortable they won't give much milk and with the current price farmers get they can't afford to lose any money.

Also found out the other week that a local farm is one of the suppliers to MacDonalds for their beef and I've got to admit the standard the animals are kept there is pretty high. Big Macs all round!

[dngr2self]

*Halal Big Macs.

[Mark W]

Living on a dairy farm I can honestly say that as far as milk goes the standards of living for the animals can't really be too low. If the cows aren't well fed and comfortable they won't give much milk and with the current price farmers get they can't afford to lose any money.

Possibly, I guess it might vary though place to place - online there are quite a few variations of this kind of thing. I'm not saying it's going to be commonplace or anything, but it does seem to go on.

[HippY]

it is just me, who thinks, that companies looked at the halal technique, checked if it break laws, suitable for them and human (?) enough for the animals, and that it does not bottleneck the whole procedure, then said why not?

I am sure that the companies would not do it, if it would make the whole line slower or would break the legislations/laws

I think the problem with these type of stories is that the story were made to grab attention (for example I read that it is on facebook, 9/10 is BS there and that 1 stuff is something so obvious (but generally bad thing) but they put a gore picture, some nice words saying like if you care, everyone shares them to show their support

I think same here, grabbed a bit (the procedure) maybe some racist/gore picture, then let it spread. As people do not care how animals are killed in general, just go "hunting" in a store, it will get angry as the animals got killed like an... animal?