dezmtber Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 The orange five is 650b the alpine is still 26. you can have pikes, its full Shimano brakes and gears, and it has a threaded bb so you can have a hope in there. the orange you can change your own pivot bearings at a cheap cost. the lapierre has 8 bearings that you can change but with much more effort. And on the chainstays ot has 4 top hat bushes and 2 alloy sleeves at £12 to replace and they ware out quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew62 Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 The orange five is 650b the alpine is still 26. you can have pikes, its full Shimano brakes and gears, and it has a threaded bb so you can have a hope in there. the orange you can change your own pivot bearings at a cheap cost. the lapierre has 8 bearings that you can change but with much more effort. And on the chainstays ot has 4 top hat bushes and 2 alloy sleeves at £12 to replace and they ware out quickly. You keep banging on about the Lapierre's but you're constantly referring to the old bikes. From what I recall your shop stopped stocking lapierre so you won't have encountered a 2014 bike will you? Again, it is entirely different to the old bikes/frames. You're obviously very pro orange but basing your buying on just easily replaceable bearings seems a bit wild. You haven't addressed the brake jack issue I mentioned that you then said didn't exist... As I've mentione I've ridden a Five for a good while on a whole variety of trails and whilst I liked it at the time I genuinely wouldn't go back to one. Have you actually ridden an orange? I did love them at one point but they're just too long in the tooth now and quite expensive for what they are. They haven't really innovated for 15 years and whilst that's some of the appeal, the rest of the MTB world has moved on and they don't seem to want to compete. I'm not bad mouthing them as they've personally been very good to me and are a nice company but I think they're now just a bit out of the loop. Tom, 26" does unfortunately seem to be being phased out. It's not necessarily a good thing, but it is what's happening. More and more companies are focusing tier efforts on 650b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewEH1 Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 You keep banging on about the Lapierre's but you're constantly referring to the old bikes. From what I recall your shop stopped stocking lapierre so you won't have encountered a 2014 bike will you? Again, it is entirely different to the old bikes/frames. You're obviously very pro orange but basing your buying on just easily replaceable bearings seems a bit wild. You haven't addressed the brake jack issue I mentioned that you then said didn't exist... As I've mentione I've ridden a Five for a good while on a whole variety of trails and whilst I liked it at the time I genuinely wouldn't go back to one. Have you actually ridden an orange? I did love them at one point but they're just too long in the tooth now and quite expensive for what they are. They haven't really innovated for 15 years and whilst that's some of the appeal, the rest of the MTB world has moved on and they don't seem to want to compete. I'm not bad mouthing them as they've personally been very good to me and are a nice company but I think they're now just a bit out of the loop. Tom, 26" does unfortunately seem to be being phased out. It's not necessarily a good thing, but it is what's happening. More and more companies are focusing tier efforts on 650b. Screw you Matt and your obsession with snappy frames! But yeah as Matt has said, Oranges are 'great' but they have their drawbacks too. I'd advise to get something more 'modern'. That being said I think I'll alway keep my Five but maybe buy another full sus to be it's stablemate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezmtber Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 http://m.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=146074 found this if anyone needs more info about different sus designs. i read here the orage does suffer brake jack, maybe its a good thing i really like riding oranges and konas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew62 Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) Screw you Matt and your obsession with snappy frames! But yeah as Matt has said, Oranges are 'great' but they have their drawbacks too. I'd advise to get something more 'modern'. That being said I think I'll alway keep my Five but maybe buy another full sus to be it's stablemate. Haha, I do appreciate peoples concerns but then I've heard that for every cracked Lapierre you get a new one, and with a long warranty it doesn't sound so bad. Also there are a lot of dubious cases out there. One issue they've had in the past is that they've used filler on their alloy bikes where the welds are to create a smoother area. Quite often the filler can crack which shows up in the paintwork whereas nothing is functionally wrong with the bike. However Lapierre will still replace the frame.... Now people complain about this sort of thing but when I found a crack in my Skye (which turned out to basically be the same thing) Inspired weren't at first overly keen to do much about it and ordered it to be stripped to investigate the crack before they'd even tell me what they'd do next (potentially nothing). Also Orange frames regularly crack in exactly the same way in the area where the shock mount is mounted to the downtube, as there's a section that's only painted and not welded. As this twists it again creates cracks in much the same way, but no bad reputation... so it's all down to perception. Well you could hold on to your Five another 4 years and then sell it as they hold their value as we've been told, so I wouldn't worry http://m.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=146074 found this if anyone needs more info about different sus designs. i read here the orage does suffer brake jack, maybe its a good thing i really like riding oranges and konas. So you finally agree they do suffer from it? But you have ridden one and never noticed it previously? Maybe not ideal to give advice on full sussers with all due respect. I also don't get the comparison with Konas...comparing a 4-bar linkage driven bike to a single pivot? They're entirely different. Whilst it's perfectly acceptable to like both I'm struggling to see what your opinions are based on and I'm not sure they're helpful to Tom as they're all a bit whimsical. If you could elaborate a bit more on why you liked certain bikes I reckon it would help with the topic. Edited January 22, 2014 by Matthew62 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Booth Posted January 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Been thinking a lot about the 26/650b argument and lifespan. Checked crc outor a comparison on tyres. I know 26 has been here since the dawn of time but there's 250+ tyres against 37ish 27.5s. I'll probably be massively wrong but I don't think 26 is going anywhere for a while. I know what you mean thouatt, every advert in MBR is for the latest 27.5" bikes. They're pushing them hard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew62 Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) Been thinking a lot about the 26/650b argument and lifespan. Checked crc outor a comparison on tyres. I know 26 has been here since the dawn of time but there's 250+ tyres against 37ish 27.5s. I'll probably be massively wrong but I don't think 26 is going anywhere for a while. I know what you mean thouatt, every advert in MBR is for the latest 27.5" bikes. They're pushing them hard. Ah yeah, there's plenty more 26" stuff out there at the moment. My point is that from this year onwards hardly any bike companies are making 26" bikes. There's still plenty of old stock left but companies are beginning to make less and less 26" stuff. Some companies have completely gotten rid of it all together. It will take a while for things like tyre stock to catch up but distributors are now ordering 26" tyres in small quantities as they don't want dead stock. There will be lots of people who still have 26" bikes and they'll need parts but it's not the area of focus. A few of my friends are selling various 26" bikes at the moment and are struggling. I'm apprehensive when I come to sell mine at the end of summer. Two of my other friends however were selling 650b wheels (not an ideal comparison admittedly) and they sold them within a week. I would just have a good think...I built my bike early last summer and 650b wasn't such a big thing, now with the change to the 2014 season (Oct/Nov) everything is 650B, so you're placed at a better time to make a more informed decision. If you're not too worried about resale then I suppose it's not as relevant. As I previously mentioned there is nothing wrong with 26", it's just increasingly being seen as old hat. Edited January 22, 2014 by Matthew62 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Booth Posted January 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Sound advice and very much appreciated Matt. Cheers. Choice is definitely between the Alpine 160 and Zesty 427 after a second look today. I can see the pros and cons to each so I'm really struggling on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew62 Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) Sound advice and very much appreciated Matt. Cheers. Choice is definitely between the Alpine 160 and Zesty 427 after a second look today. I can see the pros and cons to each so I'm really struggling on this one. The Alpines do look a bit better in the flesh but they're still fairly monstrous. I guess there's things such as spec and weight. The Zesty is 29lbs out of the box which is very respectable, the Alpine will be a good bit more. My Five was 32.5lbs with a pimp spec on which was a bit silly. You get a dropper post on the Lapierre (a stealth one at that which if you did later buy a dropper for the Alpine you'd have to run externally) which is a big bonus and a higher groupset overall. You get infinitely better brakes on the Lapierre (for reference I love Shimano brakes but wouldn't run Deore's on a MTB), and a better level of crank, bars and stem. Pound for pound you get much better stuff on the Lapierre which would influence my decision. Just as a reference point. If you do go ahead and buy the Alpine i'd look at changing the fork. I've ridden a number of Fox 34's and they're woeful. The small bump sensitivity is atrocious and if you run them at a low enough pressure to get them to respond they dive through their full travel when you pull the front brake. CTD just doesn't work. You'll find (everyone I know who has ridden or owns a 34 has done the same) you'll always leave the fork in Trail mode so that it sits up enough through the trail (as you ride along), but it is so harsh and unforgiving when you're going quickly that they pack up easily and just feel unresponsive. The 32 is much better and the extra element of flex actually helps. I know Orange only appear to offer the upgrade to a Kashima 34 but i'd speak to them and see if they could put a Pike on instead. I rode last years Spicy 916 and whilst it was a great bike it had the top end 34 on and it just ruined the bike. My friends run the Evolution versions and all got rid of them for Pikes. I've ridden 32's and 36's, both of which perform perfectly well, but there's a space reserved in hell for the Fox 34. Edited January 22, 2014 by Matthew62 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Booth Posted January 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Sound as ever Matt. Cheers for your advice. The heart side of it draws me to the Orange, as Orange bikes have always been the pin-up if you like. My head rules the zesty just for pound for pound performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew62 Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) Sound as ever Matt. Cheers for your advice. The heart side of it draws me to the Orange, as Orange bikes have always been the pin-up if you like. My head rules the zesty just for pound for pound performance. I understand completely. When I decided to build a MTB after having not spent much time MTBing a couple of summers ago my heart was set on an Orange for the exact same reasons. I had a little test of a Five and saved up for a black & gold frame and built a blacked out beauty. I'd built exactly what I'd wanted for so long. Over the 18 months of owning it I thought it was alrite but I never enjoyed MTBing that much. Always felt tired, wasn't very fast going down etc etc, but it was a proper, good looking bike that was immensely improved over the Kona Coiler i'd be using on the very odd occasion beforehand. I moved to Scotland and started riding with lots of different people and over a couple of years have tried quite a lot of different bikes. As I mentioned earlier it was on the day riding with the guys from Nukeproof that I got a different perspective. I'd put up with everyone telling me I was riding either a door hinge or a filing cabinet and defended my bike no matter what. Over the course of 2 years I've gotten to understand where peoples comments are rooted and to an extent agree with. Quite simply Orange bikes wouldn't exist now if it weren't for the development of advanced shocks with great pedalling platforms. They've kept the single pivot design just about viable in a world with advance and efficient bikes (at the same cost, if not less). I've seen plenty of people giving them a pasting and ride them very well. They reward those who lay off the brakes and give it the beans, but then so do a lot of bikes without the penalties. I used to think Orange bikes were good looking but they just look so old now and cumbersome. I mean just shy of 3K for a 26" bike with a Deore/SLX mix with no dropper isn't very good. I built a custom bike so frame wise the price is comparable to most frames out there now, but I wouldn't justify the cost now. I mean look what you can get at your budget: http://dirt.mpora.com/dirt100-2014/dirt-100-2014-cube-stereo-140-hpc-race-29.html amazing kit on that for the money. This is very sweet as well: http://www.evanscycles.com/products/specialized/stumpjumper-fsr-comp-evo-29-2014-mountain-bike-ec053580?country=GB¤cy=GBP&utm_content=mkwid__pcrid_19178765816_kword__match__plid_&gclid=CKWZkKuHkrwCFYaE2wodBBIAqA (I'm aware both of those are 29ers but just for reference sake). I know I spoke out against Canyon, but that was mainly aimed at the Strive bike, this new Spectral is incredible for the money as well: http://dirt.mpora.com/dirt100-2014/dirt-100-2014-canyon-spectral-al-9-0-ex.html This is bloody nice as well: http://dirt.mpora.com/dirt100-2014/dirt-100-2014-trek-slash-7.html I don't want to influence your choice but just want to give my experiences. I bought an Orange for the same reason but I truly would never buy another one now. Having experienced the sort of bikes being made now, with the stuff that's coming on them, the Oranges just aren't competing. The only advantage you'll have is that you won't find a more active bike than an Orange (naturally) but other than that I'm left scratching my head. I mean I've heard the newest Alpines are nice riding bikes being that touch lighter than previous, but 2014 is proving a tough year for bike buying choice as it's at a stage of change. Edited January 22, 2014 by Matthew62 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Booth Posted January 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Solid stuff Matt, if your ever back this way shout at me, I owe you several pints and a good chase around Sherwood pines. Against my better judgement I think I'm gonna go orange and just get owning one out my system. I think I'll spec it with pro2s and slx brake set thou, it's then just about everything I wanted when I started looking for a bike. EDIT- After sleeping on I couldn't be more certain on my decision. As daft as it seems after what's been discussed I'm still sticking to the Alpine. Out of the bikes I tried it was the most 'fun' bike out the pack for me. I know I'll probably regret it in 12-18 months but I'll worry about that then I suppose.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew62 Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Solid stuff Matt, if your ever back this way shout at me, I owe you several pints and a good chase around Sherwood pines. Against my better judgement I think I'm gonna go orange and just get owning one out my system. I think I'll spec it with pro2s and slx brake set thou, it's then just about everything I wanted when I started looking for a bike. EDIT- After sleeping on I couldn't be more certain on my decision. As daft as it seems after what's been discussed I'm still sticking to the Alpine. Out of the bikes I tried it was the most 'fun' bike out the pack for me. I know I'll probably regret it in 12-18 months but I'll worry about that then I suppose.. Ha, you've got to go with your heart now and again, if it's what you enjoy most then why wouldn't you get it? I hope you have an awesome time riding it. What colour are you going for? You can see pics of my old Five in the 'non-trials bike' thread. Likewise, if you ever want a ride up in Scotchland give me a shout! P.S. Put some pics up when you've got the bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Booth Posted January 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Passion red seems the one for me, or ice white looks trick. Cheers man, planning on heading upto a few trails Scotland way this summer hopefully. I'll report back after today, I'll no doubt order a cube or something thou lolol. Cheers for the help you man, very much appreciated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Booth Posted January 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Ordered, passion red, slx brakeset and pro2s. 3-6 week wait . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew62 Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Ordered, passion red, slx brakeset and pro2s. 3-6 week wait . Yeah they're pretty much made to order these days and they're certainly not the quickest with turnaround time. Pro 2's will be a worthwhile upgrade and the latest Shimano brakes are great. At least it'll be here for the better weather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Booth Posted January 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 I was gonna add pro2s at a later date anyway so for £130 now it seems the best way to do it. I had a chat with the guy about the slx's and he recons they're great. Still might look into various options later on thou. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ULtrialsguy Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 I've got slx's on my DH bike and I can't fault them, you certainly won't be upgrading them later for lack of power. While I admit I did go through a phase of really wanting an Orange I can't believe nobody mentioned a Commencal Meta or any Commencal for that matter. I've got two friends with Metas and I've got a smaller 120mm travel Super 4 for more xc/enduro riding. They're great bikes and don't seem to suffer any noticeable suspension drawbacks. Anyways I hope you enjoy your new bike, passion red would've been the colour I'd have picked as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Booth Posted January 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Cheers man, that's reassuring to know. How long have you been running them? I contemplated the hope upgrade but it was stretching my wallet too far. I looked at the Commencal range but I weren't too won over. I know there good bikes but non really tickled my pickle.. I woke up this morning to an email confirming my order a it gave me the grin of a Cheshire Cat, so I think I made the right choice for me. I'm so stoked to get it, got a good summer lined up of a week at Afan and a good long weekend in the quantocks so I'm really looking foward to put it threw its paces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ULtrialsguy Posted January 25, 2014 Report Share Posted January 25, 2014 I've been running them since last June, even spent a week in the Alps with em and they never let me down once. Why anyone would need to spend more I don't know. I think the only benefit of the more expensive shimano's is better modulation. The slx's aren't as bad as say maguras for on/off effect but they take a little getting used to. First time my mate tried my bike out he almost went over the bars cause he was used to avids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Booth Posted January 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2014 This won't end well, I'm running avid elixr 5s on the onone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezmtber Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 I have been on slx brakes all year, they love this weather were getting at the min. no problems with them and i ride them twice a day to work. And one big ride every week rain or shine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisRider Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 If the the new SLX brakes are anything like the ones I have now then they should be verrrrry good, far superior to the Avids you have on the on-one. Which club do you ride with Tom? I really want to get riding more but i'm worried i'll join a club full of chumps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Booth Posted January 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 I call it a club, there's about a dozen of us that sort fair weather Sunday mornings out and head out for bacon cobs then back lolol. Sherwood pines cycling clubs supposed to be a good bunch, I've only ever met one guy from their thou and that's through work. He's semi pro thou so I avoid riding with him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisRider Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 The thing is i'm a fat b*****d and although my fitness has been getting better, i'm still not able to maintain what i'd consider a fast pace so i'm worried that if I go along to one of those things then i'll be the slowest in the group maybe i'll do a few more weeks by myself before turning up somewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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