Tom Booth Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 I enjoy my 456 looooads and love hooning around Cannock chase but I'm longing for a full sus long travel (130-160mm) beasty to hammer. I've got a fairly decent budget and want some good kit for my moneysss. From what I've seen, cube seem great bang for buck over £1500, most seem fitted with xt/slx group sets and fox shocks front and rear. After a few evenings looking around is there anything anyone can see a miss with the cube sting 140pro? For the money it seems very well equipped http://www.tweekscycles.com/bikes/full-suspension-mountain-bikes/cube-sting-140-pro-29-full-suspension-mountain-bike-2014 ) I've known a few people with hard tail cube bikes but no full sussers, most have joy with them but it's always good to get a few more opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewEH1 Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Have a look at Canyon too, some quality bikes for not a lot of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Booth Posted January 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Cheers for that, I'll check em out.. Lapierre spicy 327 looks a good tool too.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezmtber Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 We had pretty much all the lapierre zestys from 2012 snapped the chain stays. and one had a frame replaced with the 2013 the cable routing into the headtube caused a load of hassle with the tapered steerer rubbing the hoses. they do ride well, bit have very long chainstays too. the canyons and cube bikes all seem very good value and good bikes i have seen a canyon with cracks recently but don't worry it could be a one off. i would highly recommend a stumpjumper fsr evo. a giant trance Kona process. trek remedy there's loads more bit i like to keep to the top brands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brettoll Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 Canyon or YT Industry, both are pretty good on the spec for money front as they sell directly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Booth Posted January 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 Cheers for the advice chaps, I'd hadn't seen Dez and Brett's posts about yt/canyons till now. I test rode the Lapierre yesterday and fell in love with it. So plush and just felt solid and the so fitted me beautifully. From what I've read they pulled the spicy a few years ago and this is its return? Cheers for the help so far thou guys, keep it comin'! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisRider Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 Try out a Trance, they are very highly regarded. I have an older one and absolutely love it, it was perfect for Cannock too I felt (although I really need some 140mm forks!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash-Kennard Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 just putting this out there, the newest team boardman looks shit hot, not ridden on yet, but last years one was pretty damn nice too! if not I would go second hand seen a few santa cruz's and pretty tasty all mountain bikes dotted about lots within your budget too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogre Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 the boardman full sussers are really nice, we've had 2 out of our store in the last few weeks and they seemed good when i was dicking about in the warehouse with them, i don't really do off roading but i'd certainly consider one.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Booth Posted January 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Test rode a medium sized Orange Alpine AM 160 today, rode soooo soo nice. Definite game changer, if it was a large I think I'd own it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew62 Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Cheers for that, I'll check em out.. Lapierre spicy 327 looks a good tool too.. Bare in mind that the Zesty has just been updated for 2014 with a brand new frame and it is better than ever. It looks absolutely gorgeous now and rides a treat. I've ridden with a couple of guys who have the 527 and 927 and they were both in love. They're a bit longer now and much stronger - no issues so far. Cheers for the advice chaps, I'd hadn't seen Dez and Brett's posts about yt/canyons till now. I test rode the Lapierre yesterday and fell in love with it. So plush and just felt solid and the so fitted me beautifully. From what I've read they pulled the spicy a few years ago and this is its return? Cheers for the help so far thou guys, keep it comin'! No, the Spicy has always been available as a longer travel Zesty basically. Now they're both 150mm travel with 650B wheels, just the Spicy's have a burlier build kit. There is also a 29er version of Zesty if you're that way inclined. Test rode a medium sized Orange Alpine AM 160 today, rode soooo soo nice. Definite game changer, if it was a large I think I'd own it now. I had a Five for a while and loved it for a bit, they're very active but they're not the most sophisticated. You need a good shock on the back to counter pedal-bob so they can be a bit of work up hill. Also due to the single pivot set-up if you're going down a rocky section and you're using the back brake then you're basically locking out the shock so you might as well be on a hard tail. I found the back end of my Five very flexy even with a maxle so you could get a bit of rear wheel steering around corners. I'm not sure what your budget is now based on some of the bikes you've mentioned but have a look at the Nukeproof Mega range. There's a Mega AM which is there 160mm bike, and the Mega TR which is 130mm travel. The 2013 is available with 26" wheels and the 2014 with 27.5" so loads to pick from. They're all good value bikes with some top end kit on and there's some good sales on at CRC at the mo so could be time for a bargain. I haven't heard many good things about Canyon bikes. They have good kit on them but they're Chinese off the peg bikes and the frames aren't the best riding. I'd rather pick a proven, good-handling bike and upgrade if necessary then buy a bike for its components. YT are meant to be ok but they take months to arrive even if you can get hold of one. The big downside to dealer direct brands like this is if you have an issue then you'll be waiting a long time for them to do anything about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross McArthur Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Also due to the single pivot set-up if you're going down a rocky section and you're using the back brake then you're basically locking out the shock so you might as well be on a hard tail. Hmm, I didn't know that. Could you explain a little more on why that happens? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew62 Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) Hmm, I didn't know that. Could you explain a little more on why that happens? This video sort of explains it: If you're braking on a bike that's so active, as you're locking out the rear wheel it's impacting on the shock and forcing it to compress so in affect it's locking out, or at least, not working as it should. If I went through stutter bumps or if I was riding downhill in to a berm that had big braking bumps and I was dragging my back brake, my Five would just lock up and bounce over all the bumps loosing traction. That's why so many elaborate suspension linkages exist to combat this and pedal bob as you climb. A four bar linkage or Horst linkage goes a decent way to allow the rear shock to work whilst not being affected the rear brake. Edited January 21, 2014 by Matthew62 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross McArthur Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Ah, ok. So because the braking wheel is compressing the shock, its not getting the chance to rebound. Gotcha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew62 Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Yeah because the brake calliper is on the seat stay which is driving in to the shock the brake and shock are fighting against each other. That's why rocker links are added to single pivots so that the shock curve can be controlled and can go some way to counter this. (i.e. bikes like the blood, and Nukeproof Mega). If you watch the video of Joe Barnes riding Ben A'an watch the slow mo as he's coming down the rocks, you can see the rear shock on his Alpine isn't working at all and his rear wheel is just banging off every rock which'll make for a horrible ride. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezmtber Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 What orange don't use a pivot just above the dropout like Kona ect... Kona bikes fitted the dope arm to stop that from happening. the orange bikes only suffer from rider pedaling input, which most of the new pedal pro shocks have fixed. a quick lesson in suspension then vvp, maestro and dw link suspension have a floating pivot point to take out the pedal bob. And brake lock out. But they loose some sensitivty over small bumps and that nice feel around berms. fsr links and single pivots. Handle small bumps well, and corner very well, bit suffer from pedal bob. horst link( Kona 4 bar) work well in most places, but suffer from brake input and can buckaroo under heavy bottom outs. trek use a 4 bar/ horst but have the pivot round the axle which helps reduce brake inputs. They still suffer from buckaroo. they all suffer from some draw backs. but its all personal preference. i just advise avoiding bikes that have bad reviews and snap all the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew62 Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 What orange don't use a pivot just above the dropout like Kona ect... No, they don't. the orange bikes only suffer from rider pedaling input, which most of the new pedal pro shocks have fixed. Bollocks. Have you ridden an Orange full susser? I like them (to a certain extent) don't get me wrong but that is nonsense. They suffer terribly from brake jack, that's not "rider pedalling input" as you say. i just advise avoiding bikes that have bad reviews and snap all the time That's helpful to an extent but not particularly enlightening. Not sure i'd base my buying choice entirely on magazine reviews considering how magazine reviews (& reviewers) can sometimes work.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Booth Posted January 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Cheers for the input lads, much appreciated. As it stands I've test ridden a spicy 327, a zesty 427 and the orange alpine 160. The zesty and spicy where 2 very similar beasts in my opinion, the orange a very different animal indeed. The lapierre felt very nimble, quick and fun to ride. I felt they weren't the most forgiving of bikes thou, more for the dedicated rider rather then the Sunday chucker.. The orange on the other hand felt very relaxed, very confidence inspiring, seemed to take it all in its stride and be quite forgiving. I liked that quite a lot. It felt very sluggish thou in the bike park I tried it in, very similar to my 456SS. I kinda liked the feeling but at the same time I dunno if it'd get tiring letting the bike work while you just hang on. At the minute the orange is my bike of choice given what I've tried, but another lapierre test might skew that thought. Matt, what size 5 did you have and how tall are you? Alpine 160s geo is kinda similar to my 456 in top tube length and standover so should be a comfy ride with a 40-60mm stem setup. Budget is around £2500, I'll stretch for the right bike thou. Bikes gonna be used for mostly chucking around red route runs, cannock chase, the odd run DH and a fair bit of xc. I know the last bit is abit of a leap away from their purpose, but it'd be nice to still go the odd 25-30 mile bacon cob run with the local club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew62 Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Cheers for the input lads, much appreciated. As it stands I've test ridden a spicy 327, a zesty 427 and the orange alpine 160. The zesty and spicy where 2 very similar beasts in my opinion, the orange a very different animal indeed. The lapierre felt very nimble, quick and fun to ride. I felt they weren't the most forgiving of bikes thou, more for the dedicated rider rather then the Sunday chucker.. The orange on the other hand felt very relaxed, very confidence inspiring, seemed to take it all in its stride and be quite forgiving. I liked that quite a lot. It felt very sluggish thou in the bike park I tried it in, very similar to my 456SS. I kinda liked the feeling but at the same time I dunno if it'd get tiring letting the bike work while you just hang on. At the minute the orange is my bike of choice given what I've tried, but another lapierre test might skew that thought. Matt, what size 5 did you have and how tall are you? Alpine 160s geo is kinda similar to my 456 in top tube length and standover so should be a comfy ride with a 40-60mm stem setup. Budget is around £2500, I'll stretch for the right bike thou. Bikes gonna be used for mostly chucking around red route runs, cannock chase, the odd run DH and a fair bit of xc. I know the last bit is abit of a leap away from their purpose, but it'd be nice to still go the odd 25-30 mile bacon cob run with the local club. Yeah the 2014 Zesty and Spicy will be very similar as they are essentially the same frame now, all 3 being alloy models that you've tried. I think they are forgiving but at the same time they reward effort. They're a focused bike that'll be great as you progress or ride more. Every full susser will feel less active than an Orange due to their basic design but it's whether you want that level of activeness ongoing is the question.... As you said it will feel sluggish without a good Pro Pedal or lockout setting, but even then you're still relying entirely on the shock to counter bob. I had a 17" Five which had the same top tube length as an 18" and I'm just under 5' 9". It felt a bit long with a 36 fork up front. I now run a 17" bike that's ever so slightly shorter with a 60mm stem and 150mm fork and it feels great. There's no reason you shouldn't have a bike to do DH runs on as well. I use mine for Innerleithen DH routes whilst also having it for all day rides. I would strongly recommend you try one of these: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/nukeproof-mega-am-275-pro-bike-2014/rp-prod107267 That's the 2014 model and you'd be hard pressed to find a better specced bike for the money. It comes with the new top-end Rockshox Pike which I have on my bike and it is phenomenal. The Moarch+ rear shock is something else as well. For bang on your budget there's the Comp spec: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/nukeproof-mega-am-275-comp-bike-2014/rp-prod107266 but you loose the £280 dropper and get the fork and rear shock with less adjustability. An incredible bike for the money though. They will ride a lot more like the Alpine, they are absolute monsters when pointed downhill. I rode with the guys from Nukeproof on the 2013 test bike day and I leant one of them my Five (the bike they were trying to beat with the Mega) and I jumped on a Mega AM....I felt it a lot easier on the ups and night and day on the way downs - like a mini DH bike. Just some further options for you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezmtber Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 With your budget. I would go with the five pro + pikes and reverb. £3350 ask around you will get 10% off it. Down to £3000. also think about the 2nd hand value of the bike, a lot of orange bikes hold there value well up to 5 years +. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Booth Posted January 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Yeah the 2014 Zesty and Spicy will be very similar as they are essentially the same frame now, all 3 being alloy models that you've tried. I think they are forgiving but at the same time they reward effort. They're a focused bike that'll be great as you progress or ride more. Every full susser will feel less active than an Orange due to their basic design but it's whether you want that level of activeness ongoing is the question.... As you said it will feel sluggish without a good Pro Pedal or lockout setting, but even then you're still relying entirely on the shock to counter bob. I had a 17" Five which had the same top tube length as an 18" and I'm just under 5' 9". It felt a bit long with a 36 fork up front. I now run a 17" bike that's ever so slightly shorter with a 60mm stem and 150mm fork and it feels great. There's no reason you shouldn't have a bike to do DH runs on as well. I use mine for Innerleithen DH routes whilst also having it for all day rides.That's kinda more what I was getting at with the Lapierre, focused. The orange felt fantastic, solid ride and great point and go kinda feel but the zesty felt abit more 'whippet' like, like it would do nearly everything the orange would, just faster but quicker to spank you if you dropped off. That's good about the sizing, I'm 6'3 so a 19" alpine should be more then adequate. The comment about 'not their purpose' was aimed more at the xc side of things. I guess they'll be abit too heavy and slack for the xc work but still capable. Can't have it all roads thou I guess. That nukeproof looks a grand piece of kit, but I dunno if it's just that stretch too far for my budget. Another bike that keeps catching my interest is the cube fritzz 180 race, very similar spec (maybe better infact)to the zesty and alpine and similar pricing. Might try and get a tester in the next few days and see how I feel over the weekend.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash-Kennard Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) get a santa cruz, go VVP and never look back? dont go crackirre, they ride really nicely, but not for long. what you planning on using this bike for? mostly down? or everywhere? Edited January 21, 2014 by Ash-Kennard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Booth Posted January 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Mostly harsh trail and brief stints of downhill. It'll have the odd xc run but I've got the 456 for those runs. I keep looking at Santacruz but for a similar spec bike, they are a fairway outta my league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew62 Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 get a santa cruz, go VVP and never look back? dont go crackirre, they ride really nicely, but not for long. what you planning on using this bike for? mostly down? or everywhere? I'm not sure VPP is the be all and end all. It's a hell of a lot of bearings to replace, especially as Santa Cruz aren't renowned for the longest lasting ones. Also Santa Cruz bikes are just silly money these days. As has been mentioned the 2014 zesty and spicys are entirely different frames and there's no reports of breakages yet. My main thing I'd be considering is the rise of 650b becoming the standard wheel size. I don't think I'd be buying a 26" right now as they're poring less and less popular and might be harder to sell on at a later date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Booth Posted January 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 get a santa cruz, go VVP and never look back? dont go crackirre, they ride really nicely, but not for long. what you planning on using this bike for? mostly down? or everywhere? Surely Snapierre would be more apt? My heads a mess. Lolol. Heart says orange, head says orange/Lapierre.. But Matt makes a good point, what's the future of 26"!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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