FamilyBiker Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 crazy bike defined the release date with putting the geo up,not a clever move. nah,i didnt want to start an argument,no worries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isitafox Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 Holy shiznitch. Tarty have just listed the reach at 765mm?! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 That'll be an in-a-rush while eating lunch typo, oops! Corrected, ta. I was tempted not to put it up to make frame copier's lives a little harder, but then I realised it's probably the best way to ensure there's no way they'll copy the geo exactly 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Bleech Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 Looks fantastic, any news of when the framekits will be available? Looking at the spec and knowing how much detail/testing/thought has gone into this bike, the price seems fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isitafox Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 Superb, that fully confirms my need for one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dk2 Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 Awsome....i need a frame set. Any dates from the tarty guys on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ТrialsRider Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 (edited) Blah-blah quality and stuff(all steel frames in the world(dirt/street/4x/bmx) seems to be complete shit and crap in front of god tier handmade Arcade made from super-duper cosmic CrMo mined on Krypton if we compare prices on Arcade and other steel bike frames), but why Ozonys Styl costs 900 pounds for whole bike(Even if we'll set same brakes/hope hubs and stuff it will still be pretty cheaper than an Arcade)? I'm afraid to imagine how cheap framset is and how much it cheaper than an Arcade. Edited November 19, 2013 by ТrialsRider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD™ Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 Why? Because that's how they want to set their prices. If you don't think it's a good enough price, don't buy it. Stop whinging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben_travis Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ТrialsRider Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 I'm not whining. I want adequate prices on trials market, that not even close to adequate. And I want it for people, and I want trials and street-trials especially to rise and to involve new people in (especially in Russia). With prices that high it's IMBASSIBLE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HippY Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 Blah-blah quality and stuff(all steel frames in the world(dirt/street/4x/bmx) seems to be complete shit and crap in front of god tier handmade Arcade made from super-duper cosmic CrMo mined on Krypton if we compare prices on Arcade and other steel bike frames), but why Ozonys Styl costs 900 pounds for whole bike(Even if we'll set same brakes/hope hubs and stuff it will still be pretty cheaper than an Arcade)? I'm afraid to imagine how cheap framset is and how much it cheaper than an Arcade. I am kinda glad that you did not mention Omen bikes, because than it would be too suspicious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD™ Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 No, it isn't. As you've mentioned, there are many cheaper ways into the sport. People on a budget can take those, and those who want and can afford the Arcade will buy that. Should Ferrari's be the same price as a Honda Civic? You are whinging, and it's boring. Almost IMPOSSIBLY boring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bing Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 I'm not whining. I want adequate prices on trials market, that not even close to adequate. And I want it for people, and I want trials and street-trials especially to rise and to involve new people in (especially in Russia). With prices that high it's IMBASSIBLE. Hello clitgerm. Nice to have all the negativity back, the forum mood was just starting to lift. Nice to see the balance restored Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 but why Ozonys Styl costs 900 pounds for whole bikee. I don't think it's fair to compare two bikes where every single part on the more expensive one is better and, well, more expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ТrialsRider Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 (edited) What? I am kinda glad that you did not mention Omen bikes, because than it would be too suspicious Stop this shit already. You saw what I ride. And I do not advertise anything(unlike some persons on here). You see freaking difference between marketing and selling your own parts that you don't need? Also I'm not selling anything in UK now and don't think I will. PayPal and postage cost makes it pretty unprofitable. So you can't blame me, LAWL. Edited November 19, 2013 by ТrialsRider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HippY Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 What? Stop this shit already. You saw what I ride. And I do not advertise anything(unlike some persons on here). You see freaking difference between marketing and selling you parts that you don't need? Also I'm not selling anything in UK now and don't think I will. PayPal and postage cost makes it pretty unprofitable. I am willing to let it go, in case that you wont bring the level down here in forum. Please phrase nicer. We are British. We drink tea, and we are nice in general Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ТrialsRider Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 (edited) Hello clitgerm. Nice to have all the negativity back, the forum mood was just starting to lift. Nice to see the balance restored >negativity No. I'm good and pretty positive person. And I have reasons to say what I say. Just for example: I am willing to let it go, in case that you wont bring the level down here in forum. Please phrase nicer. We are British. We drink tea, and we are nice in general Every nation thinks they the nicest. About my English - yes, I need to rise it's level, because I like expression so much and can't say what I want to say nice. Edited November 19, 2013 by ТrialsRider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 thats a joke,no? 2400 euro for a steel rig? bwahaha You need to re-calibrate your idea of the quality and expense of producing steel frames, and stop thinking in terms of what a man in Peru does. The Arcade is made by a top factory who also do plenty of other high end frames, and consequently it's got a lot of high end features. It isn't a cheap frame to make, and consequently it isn't a cheap frame to buy. To give you another indicator, if the Arcade chain tugs were released on their own they'd be significantly more expensive than any other chain tug currently out there simply because of how intricate they are because Inspired wanted to make them as small and refined as possible. You can't do that in a cheap way. Similarly, the forks are fully custom and have had a lot of work put into them too. It's not like you can just pick out a pair of steel forks with a custom tapered dropout suitable for a 15mm through-axle, as well as the custom through-axle to go with it, is it? The Arcade complete bike is built with a spec that's arguably better than the Fourplay Team (e.g. the Arcade bashring/sprocket combo compared to the Fourplay Team bashring/chainring setup). If the spec of a bike is more expensive than another bike, why would it suddenly have to be cheaper just because of the material of the frame/fork? Like I said before, the Arcade frame/fork aren't cheap to make, so the overall price of the bike isn't suddenly going to drop simply because it's not made out of aluminium... why Ozonys Styl costs 900 pounds for whole bike Because they wanted to make a cheap bike. Inspired wanted to make a good bike. That's why the cranks, freewheel, bashring and BB on the Styl probably costs less overall than just the rear hub alone on the Arcade. The Styl frame is proportioned in such a way you can't have the seat slammed, even if you wanted to. It's got FFW. It's got a 28h front wheel. It's got a needledick front tyre and a wider rear tyre. There's no attention to detail. If you don't give a f**k about what you're producing, you can cut corners wherever you want which will in turn lower the price. Inspired didn't do that. Consequently, Inspired have made the best bike they're able to make, and Ozonys have just made some cheap bike. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Bleech Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 The Styl is pretty expensive all things considered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamilyBiker Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 (edited) in general youre right,mark(and i know youre a man of the bike business). but ask the people from inspired,and if theyre honest,they´ll tell you that the setup of the jigs and the frame parts which are special cost a few 1000 more than a standard production lot at first,and every frame above the minimum order quantity will cost,say 120 € if its a really expensive one in taiwan(random mtb frame like canyon is around 60 incl powdering),assuming inspired dont have some people welding frames in their basement for wages european workers are used to i think the frames are made there,as literally every frame nowadays. a dh frame costs around 170 usd if you order it from taipeh,minimum 120pcs.. dh frames have 12x150 dropouts and there are hubs from shimano with 15mm through-axle,so i´m kind of wondering why a fork with that 15mm axle system should be that more expensive in taiwan,were everything bike production related is round the corner and all those catalogue parts are there at quantities you´d never believe,a dropout costs just cents there. i´m not just talking,we had a seminar(is it called that over there?) about bike production economics and stuff,and the guy who held it was in taipeh frequently to order 1200+frames for Trek,thats where i got that infos from btw no pun intended,just discussing i think everything has to have its price,but i think NS bikes or Scott or else do their homework too,and have high end bikes for just about half the money.some of them have reynolds tubing in the higher grade numbers not to be seen against inspired,i like their bikes a lot and they seem to be massively durable i´d say that about any other frame that is priced above 300-400€ max.,thats high already Edited November 19, 2013 by FamilyBiker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 The fact the guy who was giving you that information was talking about ordering thousands of frames should suggest that the economies of scale are going to be totally different though, and even if they're not just for Treks, those parts are probably going to be shared by other companies too - something that isn't the case with the Arcade frame/fork. EDIT: Re: NS Bikes/Scott - from looking at their range, their frames are fairly basic as are the parts they spec them with (not to mention a cable-lever and a U-brake being probably less than the price of a Hope rotor...)? I might just be looking at different bikes to you though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamilyBiker Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 (edited) could be right what youre saying,but double the price(!)of any mtb frame would be 120,and double would be a very high assumption. for example if the factory has a minimum order batch of 100pcs(pretty common),and inspired wouldnt just need 100 for sure,jig adjustment is at a fixed price,2 years ago that was like 1200€ for most of the factories the guy dealt with. so 1200+[100x120](thats reaaaaly high believe me)=13200.shipping for a container would be 1000€ from china to uk(for a 25 footer,should take 100 frames). customs would like to have taxes etc,lets grab high again and say 20%(from the amount the frames cost incl.shipping) 20% of 14200 would be 2840,so put that on top. for 17040€ you have imported 100 frames to your home country,making every frame at a pure product cost of 170,40€,and thats the minimum quantity at which the frames arent cheap for inspired.100+,no prob i think--- was just an example with factors from 2011,but you see that the profit margin gives a lot room for either profit or good prices. at last its that decision that makes stuff expensive for the customers here. i´mm sure you´ll say something about wages here and stuff,but that cant be 200+% of the frames pure cost imo Edited November 19, 2013 by FamilyBiker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 a pure product cost of 170,40€ So what should be the retail price of this fictional product be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shercofray Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 (edited) Now you're just making up figures to try and jusitify your argument! Please stop posting utter rubbish! Edited November 19, 2013 by shercofray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamilyBiker Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 (edited) So what should be the retail price of this fictional product be? in germany between 349-499€,thats high end dirt/street stuff.remember,i took double the normal of a frames cost in taiwan as an example Now you're just making up figures to try and jusitify your argument! Please stop posting utter rubbish! okay,tell me how its happening in real life then. sorry guys,but do you all just want to tell me that one of 100+ frames cant be produced at a price a handmade one i own was? theres a whole industrial city bigger than any capitol in western europe specialized on bicycles Edited November 19, 2013 by FamilyBiker 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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