Rear Avid BB7 - A revelation

[Scoox]

I'll start off by saying that a rear disc brake on a mod is absolutely amazing. I used to think that a rear Magura HS-33 was the way to go and only a month ago I started using a rear Avid BB7, for the sake of giving it a try. I was pleasantly surprised. Below is a list of benefits of Avid mechanical disc brakes vs hydraulic rim and disc brakes.

• Consistent and reliable performance (the brake has NOT slipped once yet).
• Works even better in the wet, unlike rim brakes.
• Better modulation than rim brakes.
• No need to grind rims.
• A bent rim does not interfere with your brakes, therefore you don't need to worry about that until you get home. No more fiddling with spoke keys during your rides, so you can focus on the ride.
• Considerably cheaper than hydraulic brakes (disc or rim).
• Very easy to maintain with simple tools and no mess (e.g. oil spills).
• Once set up correctly the brake stays put and requires no maintenance.
• Pad wear adjustment dial makes it really easy to compensate for pad wear, takes 2 seconds and no tools. With HS-33 you you'd have to move the slave cylinders inwards towards the rim, which, owing to the way the brake is designed, happens to be a PITA, especially if you use a 4-bolt booster.
• Spares readily available (here in China virtually every bike shop stocks Avid spares whereas Magura and Hope stuff needs to be ordered in).
• Spares are not a rip-off. For the price of many Magura and Hope spares you can buy a whole BB7 calliper here in China.
• No more overpriced Magura HS-33 CNC backing pads.
• Avid mech disc brakes spares are much cheaper than hydraulic brake spares.
• Most parts serviceable with just an Allen key, perfect for in-field servicing.
• No need to bleed brakes. Changing a cable takes just a couple of minutes and can be done anywhere using an Allen key. Bleeding brakes, however, is the sort of thing you need to plan ahead for.
• No need to buy hydraulic fluid, which tends to be overpriced e.g. Magura Royal Blood.
• Harder to damage (e.g. no snapped hoses).
• Avid levers feature a "bend zone" which means if you knock the lever blade it will bend rather than snap (I had a crash a while ago and it worked, all I had to do is bend the thing back by hand).
• No oil leaks (unlike some Maguras when running a water bleed)
• Avid CPS design means the pads always sit perfectly square to the rotors, no shims required unlike with Hope brakes, and certainly a lot easier to set up than HS-33s which are a royal PITA with those plastic rings that get deformed once you tighten the mounting bolts.
• No frame flex issues, no brake boosters needed.
• Rim brake pads need to be of softer compounds to guarantee suitable braking performance, but soft pad material wears down fast. Disc brake pads last much longer.
• Soft pad compounds make brakes feel mushy, while my rear BB7 feels stiffer than any front HS33 I've ever used.
• Metal backing rim pads improve performance but cost an outrageous £30 here in China, whereas I can get a whole brand-new BB7 **with** pads for just £32.

My set-up is as follows:

• Lever: Avid FR5
• Calliper: Avid BB7
• Cable: Jagwire Ripcord (linear cable).

It's been one month with this set-up and my confidence has gone through the roof. My riding has improved much since. I bitterly regret all those painful years I've wasted with Magura HS-33, and all the times I've got hurt because of them.

Edited July 24, 2013 by Scoox

[Scoox]

By the way, I also own a pair of Avid FR7 levers but found them to be slightly heavier, bulkier and flexier than FR5 levers. The extra flex is introduced by the leverage adjustment screw that the cable attaches to. The FR5 is a simpler design in which the cable attaches directly to the lever blade, resulting in a stiffer assembly which I prefer. Also less stuff to go wrong.

I also considered getting a BB5 calliper. A mate runs BB5 callipers front and rear and they feel solid, especially because the calliper is made out of a single piece of metal, unlike the BB7 which is made of halves held together by two hex bolts. However, the BB5 lacks a pad wear adjustment dial, which makes my life a lot easier, so I chose to use a BB7. Performance wise they are the same though.

[cardenas_26trials]

What Avid rotor are you running? you could upload a pic of your setup!

cheers

[LukasMcNeal]

Massive downside if you sidehop to the left and catch the disc though!

[Perez]

Do you work for Sram by the way?

[Scoox]

I run a 160mm G2, I think the actual rotor is a fake because I only paid about 4 quid for each, although it's perfectly straight and works just as well as the original.

Knocking the rotor is defo a downside but I don't mind having to buy a new rotor every now and then if it makes my riding better, which of course it does.

I don't work for SRAM, in fact I am actually looking for a job at the moment!

Sorry for the crappy pic, I'll see if I can upload a close-up later as I am going to Spain tomorrow and I am busy packing.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Scoox

[dezmtber]

Nice setup discs on mods ***

[dk2]

"Bitter pain fuld experiences with hs33", in what way did it fail you, and was it in the same way on all occasions?. Always thought of mine as bomb proof...Im also like the bb7, runs it on my DJ.

[cardenas_26trials]

Used to run the same setup for a time until I bent the rotor couldn't get access to a new original one, and the others didn't played as well. It worked amazingly though. Moved to HS33 and now I'm running Hope on the rear, I feel this stiffer.

Only problem I found was that it caused a weird noise from the caliper, I think it was the pads moving inside. Oh, and the weight.

Apart from this, it's a GREAT brake for the price and quality.

Cheers!

[Jake.]

After all those things you said I'd still run dual maguras, it's the way to go on anything above 20" wheels.

Maaaaaybe disc on front but never on back.

[ogre]

rear bb7 is rad on a mod. got a 180mm rotor. shits ridiculous.

[Scoox]

My main prob with HS33 was maintenance. My front BB7, once set up properly, never needed any tweaking, other than the pad wear dial which of course does not need tools. The HS33 on the same bike required attention before, during and after every ride. It's like one of those girlfriends that always make up lame excuses not to have sex. With a rear BB7 it's always sexy time.

Typical maintenance issues I encountered:

• Pads won't be square by the end of the ride, especially softer pads, because they like to wear at an angle even if the pad backing is square to the frame (could be limited to plastic backing pads though),
• Softer pad compounds provided better braking performance but wear out very fast, so they need to be adjusted and replaced regularly. Replacing HS33 pads ain't cheap, especially the fancy metal backing ones.
• Constantly having to loosen and tighten the mount bolts is not good for the frame mount hole threads even if you grease them.
• Adjusting brakes with a much needed 4-bolt booster is way too much hassle.
• Rims need to be grinded, and re-grinded after a while.
• Rims need to be trued frequently to prevent rubbing.
• Water-bled brakes feel the shitz but can leak slowly over time.
• Changing an oil line and bleeding is a bitch especially with the new Magura barbed fittings. I could change a wire with my eyes closed though.

And because pads wear down very quickly, performance changes very quickly too, which means you cannot trust your brakes because they are not consistent.

[dngr2self]

Is it really a revelation though? A well set up brake will work well wether it's a disk, v or maggy. If you need to adjust your maguras that often then perhaps you're not setting them up right. I rarely need to touch mine apart from bleeding every few months but I would need to replace a disk cable just as often so I don't see the difference. Either way they're all easy to look after if you know what you're doing.

In fact I've snapped 2 disk cables now I think about it but I've only popped 1 magura.

[forteh]

I hadn't touched my maggie (short of topping up the bleed every so often because the RB lever leaks a touch and grinding 2-3 times a year) in about 3 years, then I changed my pads and I needed to reset the slaves position to suit - hardly high maintenance!

In contrast, I tried a BB7 on the back and it wouldn't my weight on a curb, let alone anything that required some sort of brake power. I use BB7 on the front and it's awesome, but on the back you might as well have been brakeless.

[dezmtber]

I fitted a hope trialzone last year.

Never bleed it

Never replaced the pads

Never replaced the rotor

I clean it with water

And on the odd occasion with fenwicks foaming cleaner and disc cleaner.

And reset it when I remove the rear wheel or adjust the chain tension.

Maintainence free

[clerictgm]

What about bb7 +203mm on 24? Why all streety riders (who prefer discs) uses rear hydro discs and no one uses mech discs?

Edited July 24, 2013 by clerictgm

[Azarathal]

Too flexy

[trialsiain]

Bb7 or trialzone for mod hmmm ? Thoughts

[Perez]

When i set up my Magura perfectly i can almost forgot about it during a year.

Last year i changed the pads, bled it, fit it to the frame, and thats it

The BB7 is a very good brake, but on the front. I dont have the guts to use it on the back and do some rail stuff.

[ogre]

currently i'm on a rear hope, i feel like my bb7 would have held where the hope hasn't. although it's still bedding in the bb7 was insta-rad.

[Scoox]

I thoght I'd come back to post an update on how my BB7 are holding up after over a year of use, at an average of 3 rides per week, 1-2 hours each. In short, the only thing I've had to do to thes brakes is adjust the pad wear dial, which takes a couple of seconds and no tools. I guess I've been lucky I've not knocked the rotors yet! The brake has not slipped once, with the stock pads, which are still going strong and are considerably cheaper than any fancy CNC alu backing pads for HS33 (in fact they came with the brake already). This brake makes me want to go out and ride, because my bike is always ready to go. Rear disc is the reason I love mods. Happy riding!

[Clerictgm mk2]

Can't resist:

• Brake slips every ride and has absolutely no bite.
• Works better in the wet, yup.
• Better modulation than rim brakes, yup, cap.
• No need to grind rims, yup, cap.
• A bent rim does not interfere with your brakes, yup, cap.
• Considerably cheaper than hydraulic brakes (disc or rim), nope, I bought my set for 160 EUR, could buy deores or something even better instead. Nokon/Ultimate setup may cost like a pair of a top shiny new Hopes.
• Very easy to maintain with simple tools and no mess.. hmm Good hydro brakes with well available parts are too very easy to maintain if you are not a retard. What about magura/echo's - can't imagine simpler construction than that.
• Once set up correctly the brake stays put and requires no maintenance, also like a good hydro.
• Pad wear adjustment dial makes it really easy to compensate for pad wear, takes 2 seconds and no tools. With hydro brakes it takes NOTHING to do. You just do nothing and pads adjusting magically by themselves.
• Spares readily available, like with good hydro brakes.
• Spares are not a rip-off, yup. But you don't need Hope spares so often if you cleaning/oiling pistons and rebleeding it at least once a 3 years.
• No more overpriced Magura HS-33 CNC backing pads. This is true, maggie pads are crazy overpriced. Polyurethane FТW.
• Avid mech disc brakes spares are much cheaper than hydraulic brake spares. Repeating yourself.
• Most parts serviceable with just an Allen key, perfect for in-field servicing. Hmm. With good hydro brakes you don't need this "in-field servicing". What can happen? Teared up braided hose? No.
• No need to bleed brakes. Changing a cable takes just a couple of minutes and can be done anywhere using an Allen key. Bleeding brakes, however, is the sort of thing you need to plan ahead for. Rebleeding hydros is too just a couple of minutes.
• No need to buy hydraulic fluid, which tends to be overpriced e.g. Magura Royal Blood. No it's not overpriced if you have a brain and it's working. For oil there are a bunch of analogs (fork/transmission oils) that even better. You can even use Antifreeze. What about DOT - it's cheap as hell.
• Harder to damage (e.g. no snapped hoses). Have you seen snapped braided hose or damaged Hope caliper or lever that rather snap some part of you?
• Avid levers feature a "bend zone" which means if you knock the lever blade it will bend rather than snap (I had a crash a while ago and it worked, all I had to do is bend the thing back by hand). Re-read previous statement.
• No oil leaks (unlike some Maguras when running a water bleed). Good discs hydros also has no oil leaks, because they has no oil, lol. Those who has also has no leaks. Saints are pretty leakproof, for example.
• Avid CPS design means the pads always sit perfectly square to the rotors, no shims required unlike with Hope brakes, and certainly a lot easier to set up than HS-33s which are a royal PITA with those plastic rings that get deformed once you tighten the mounting bolts. I don't need any shims while setting my hope brake. It's even easier to set than bb7. Pull the lever - tight up bolts and it's done.
• No frame flex issues, no brake boosters needed. Maggie doesn't necessarily needs a booster.
• Rim brake pads need to be of softer compounds to guarantee suitable braking performance, but soft pad material wears down fast. Disc brake pads last much longer. Lulwut? TNNs lives for freaking ever. It takes really long until they wear down.
• Soft pad compounds make brakes feel mushy, while my rear BB7 feels stiffer than any front HS33 I've ever used. This is true but only for really soft pads. TNNs are not soft pads.
• Metal backing rim pads improve performance but cost an outrageous £30 here in China, whereas I can get a whole brand-new BB7 **with** pads for just £32. Okay.

My set-up is as follows:

• Lever: Avid FR5
• Calliper: Avid BB7
• Cable: ECLAT CORE Linear (linear cable).
• Echo TR 180 Rotors

Edited October 17, 2014 by Clerictgm mk2

[laurent]

Indeed you can't resist taking your own opinion as an absolute truth, but in the same time keep asking the same question over and over again.

I'm used to ride BB7 as a front brake for a very long time, and it is almost the only part i can recommand to everyone being absolutely sure they won't be disappointed.

The only downside is that it is a bit heavy.

But for those who really like this brake, you can make it lighter using some more expensive parts such as race linear slick cable, ti bolt everywhere and a light rotor (Some work very well with it).

I am currently using one on the front of my mod with a Hope trial zone on rear. Both are way enougth powerful with plenty of bite.

You can't tell it is not working good because you are not able to set it up right.

Moreover, you can't say it isn't easier to set up than an hydro brake, in a way that you don't have to be carreful with fluid (Not that it is actually an issue).

Moreover your not exposed to leaks, so in my opinion it is way more reliable.

To conclude all your gibberish will not help anyone to make an opinion about brakes as it really seems biased to my point of view.

Anyway BB7 as an mechanical brake is one of the efficient brakes for trial riding (front or rear) and Hope trial zone is too,.even if both are not perfect.

BB7 with a sd7 lever offers in my opinion a bit more modulation.

[Clerictgm mk2]

as an absolute truth

Don't lie. I do not pretend on an absolute truth. Just like to sort out what I'm interested in.

And also learn to read, I'm saying that MY SETUP is BULLSHIT. Turn your logic on, this is != BB7 is BULLSHIT.

And yes, this is just my opinion. For me now Hope V4 Tech 3@203 Hope Mono6 SAW is the best brake ever. I'll try Saints later and maybe my opinion will change. But I personally hardly dislike mech brakes after trying Deores and Hopes.

>not able to set it up right.

Make me laugh.

Are you serious? Only retard can't set mech brakes. Don't say it like it something hard and like you need skill to do it never. You'll be disgraced and ridiculed in eyes of cyclists of any kind. Problem is in pads/rotor combination. Echo TR seems to be shitty rotors. Because with roundagon my BB5 worked awesome.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Clerictgm mk2

[laurent]

enlighten me please ? What's the point of saying something do not work because you didn't succeed in setting it up correctly ?

It does not tell us if it does work or not. It just tell us you can't set it up.

In a topic where someone tells us it works amazingly, after a year of use or so (So an actual review based on facts), it is pointless, it just add confusion.