British Soldier Murdered in Machete attack 23/05/2013

[Rusevelt]

The scene of a recent Machete attack on a british soldier Lee Rigby, in Woolwich, London. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22630304

Edited May 28, 2013 by Rusevelt

[AndrewEH1]

On a soldier no less...London be scary

Edited May 22, 2013 by AndrewEH1

[Rich J]

Terrorism?!

[haydon_peter]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22630303

It sounds pretty f**ked up.

[Jamie_Trials]

Filming it while shouting "Allahu Akbar"...

Surprise?

[anzo]

In before conspiracyyyy!

It was t'government want it!

[AkuskaUK]

Its f**ked up!

Im glad that they were shot, animals.

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

Good ol' religious extremist f**ktards at it again. c**ks need to be strung up.

Edit: Was it actually linked to road rage? The video on ITV and the description just make it sound like a couple of Muslim freaks being retardedly violent.

[1a2bcio8]

Ah, the standard huge emphasis on the crimes against 'us' relative to the general downplaying or complete ignorance of our crimes against others. That is, if this instance even falls into a category 'us vs. them.'

Cameron has returned to the UK for this? He'd never do the same regarding British atorcities around the world despite them being far worse. It's all a game of manipulation and racism.

The government will happily call this 'terrorism' ahead of the actual facts because it serves their playing to people's prejudices. The murder itself is heinous but so is the attempt to gain from it for political purposes.

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

Is it wrong that since 9/11 I do have a dislike/distrust/general lack of respect for the Muslim faith? It's pretty well known that I dislike religion as a whole but there's a real anger that wells up inside me when I see stuff like this where these nutters are doing things as god's will. I hear what you're saying, Ben, but the atrocities carried out by the US (and 'us') has never been in 'god's name' but (in theory at least) have been aimed at these sort of fundamentalist f**ktards.

If I see a Muslim in the airport or on the tube I do look twice. You may say that it's stupid to taint the majority with the extremist views of the few but then when someone calls their teddy bear Mohammad or draws a cartoon of Mohammad with a bomb turban on the result is hundreds if not thousands of Muslims baying for blood and demanding that all Americans/soldiers/Danes or whatever should be violently killed for their slur against the prophet it just makes me hate the concept of Islam that little bit more. It seems to me that their beliefs are stuck in a time centuries in the past- their treatment of women, laws etc. When a mother is willing to murder her own daughter by burning her with acid because she may have looked at a boy passing on a moped there is something seriously, seriously wrong.

Anyway, I probably am wrong and religionist or something but it's all just too messed up for words. Except maybe clusterf**k.

[1a2bcio8]

People's negative views of Muslims have, I believe, been heightened to justify western imperialism. There are, undoubtedly, factions of that religion that are extremist but they are a minority. I've known plenty of Muslims and none of them were extreme in their views. In previous centuries we characterized the victims of our imperialism as savages, etc. as a justification - we were bringing 'civilization' to them but, ironically, it required pillaging their wealth and murdering them amongst other things - and the current method of painting people of the Middle East as 'terrorists' grounded in religious fundamentalism is similar. Now, I'm not saying that's your view exactly but I've head plenty of people, on my facebook for instance, talking of everyone over there as just that.

The other part of this imposed world view is, as you've expressed, fear. This enemy over there and even around us will destroy us unless we destroy it first or impose this or that draconian law for protection. The American Government has has always had some sort of abstract 'war' on the go either against, Communism, drugs or terrorism. When one fades another straight away comes to prominence. Each justifies immorality because, at such times, when your survival is threatened, there is no room for such luxuries.

To me, it doesn't matter if atrocities are done in the name of religion, profit or power. It's the suffering that people experience, regardless of race, ethnicity, etc, that matters. You can be just as insane by your need for profit and power as you can religion. On that basis it's the level atrocity that matters and therefore we are amongst the worst offenders.

What's particularly interesting is that religious fundamentalism seems to be the channel that oppressed people use against their oppressors. I wish I could remember my readings on this to post up but it's fairly well established, even within the CIA - they call it 'blowback' I think? -, that our interventions around the world fuel terrorism. In other words, you can't necessarily blame religion totally. Rather, fundamentalist organisations are where you go to address this problem or express your hatred of those who have wronged you.

I've always felt that people don't really consider the complexities involved within any mass noun such as 'Christianity' or 'Islam'. Often one small part can be taken for the whole when really it varies to a significant extent. Christianity is not all about a bearded chap in the sky and Islam is not mostly constituted by radicals that want to blow everyone up. I guess it's easier to gloss things but you miss a complete picture that might totally reshape your attitude in ways that better serve you.

Edited May 22, 2013 by Ben Rowlands

[David]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZzG_w1kyNg

WTF

[Tony Harrison]

People are shocked by this, Boston, etc, because they live in a bubble where everything is safe and ok and nothing terrible is going to happen to them on their way to work.

The reality of the world is somewhat different - it's just that in a priveliged western existence you're fooled into thinking that this how everyone behaves and lives. The ideas of death and violence and terror become so pushed away and denied, that everyone's reduced to shock by the horrible realisation that "Oh f'ck! Maybe we AREN'T safe after all!".

This is the daily reality for so many people across the world, but we never go there and see it. We sit at home and watch some sh't like Family Guy instead of the news about Bangladeshi women getting acid thrown in their faces and Somalian kids getting hacked to death, and because it's so far away we can act as though it's not really happening. But it is. So maybe it's selfish that we get so angry when it's on our own soil - it's not that a life on a London street is worth more than a life in a Cape Town ghetto, it's just that we get extremely uneasy when this stuff happens close to us. Because it makes us question the illusion of safety and fear for our lives.

[Boumsong]

I wonder how the emergency servies personel feel being actively involved in situations like this. Must be made of tough stuff.

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

People are shocked by this, Boston, etc, because they live in a bubble where everything is safe and ok and nothing terrible is going to happen to them on their way to work.

The reality of the world is somewhat different - it's just that in a priveliged western existence you're fooled into thinking that this how everyone behaves and lives. The ideas of death and violence and terror become so pushed away and denied, that everyone's reduced to shock by the horrible realisation that "Oh f'ck! Maybe we AREN'T safe after all!".

This is the daily reality for so many people across the world, but we never go there and see it. We sit at home and watch some sh't like Family Guy instead of the news about Bangladeshi women getting acid thrown in their faces and Somalian kids getting hacked to death, and because it's so far away we can act as though it's not really happening. But it is. So maybe it's selfish that we get so angry when it's on our own soil - it's not that a life on a London street is worth more than a life in a Cape Town ghetto, it's just that we get extremely uneasy when this stuff happens close to us. Because it makes us question the illusion of safety and fear for our lives.

But the things that happen on a daily basis in Bangladesh, Somalia etc. are all also linked to Islam aren't they? So does that mean that Islam is even more evil than our pathetic Western media have us believe? It really is f**ked up and does remind me of our history lessons when 500 years ago we used to chop off peoples hands for stealing, treated women like third class citizens etc. It seems to me that Islam has no place in modern society in it's retarded backwards ways.

I like Family Guy.

[Tony Harrison]

I think Islam has a lot to do with it. I went to Bangladesh by choice, and tomorrow I'm going to Malaysia - both countries are 99% Muslim. I generally find Muslims to be friendly, charitable, lovely people. But that doesn't change the fact that their religion does indeed seem to be behind lots of sh't. The radical Islamics always seem to be the first ones to kick off when things aren't going their way, and the way women are treated in some of these countries just defies belief. It absolutely disgusts me. I don't see that religion in general has much of a place in modern society, but radical Islam, Sharia law etc, no way.

And, for the record, that's not the government poisoning me against Islamic people. I live in Asia and I enjoy spending time with people of different ethnicities, and despite the violence there I intend to go back to Bangladesh this year. I don't fear Muslims, I just fear those who think their beliefs justify being f'cking nasty to others who didn't do anything to deserve it.

[Luke Dunstan]

Did anyone else have a facebook feed full of ignorant and racist posts?

People have the idea that Muslim people as a whole are to blame, it's like saying all Christians are like the KKK.

Idiots.

[Muel]

Personally I think the time for reasoned debate and chatter is over. This attack is nothing to do with religion, it's about greedy f**king terrorists wanting to dominate the country. I've had a few Muslim friends who hate the extremist bastards as much as us, because it then shows 99% of muslims in a bad light.

I heard that the attack lasted for 20 mins, with about 30 onlookers stood watching. Says a lot about our culture that people stand, watch and video stuff instead of getting on the phone to the police straight away.

[1a2bcio8]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/8933193/British-soldier-jailed-for-stabbing-10-year-old-Afghan-boy.html

[manuel]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/8933193/British-soldier-jailed-for-stabbing-10-year-old-Afghan-boy.html

I'll be honest - if you can't see the difference between these two stories, you are trying too hard to see both sides of things.

[1a2bcio8]

And I'd say if you can't see the comparisons, in the most important senses, you're trying too hard not to...

I'm not trying to deny differences but the similarities are what matters in this instance. At least regarding the types of point I want to try and highlight such as can be found in my previous posts.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Ben Rowlands

[Skoze]

I'd really like to know the full circumstances of this, seems everyone's gone apeshit with the "it's terrorism" thing, but where does the smashed up car etc come into it? There was a brief mention on the BBC site which then seemed to just descend into all manner of confusion as the article went on.

[Rusevelt]

The attackers drove into the victim, then dragged him out onto the nearby road and you can guess the rest..

And now this EDL group wants to make their point heard like they did later that evening, there is gonna be some tension within the community.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Rusevelt

[hI-OOPS-CAPS]

I think Islam has a lot to do with it. I went to Bangladesh by choice, and tomorrow I'm going to Malaysia - both countries are 99% Muslim. I generally find Muslims to be friendly, charitable, lovely people. But that doesn't change the fact that their religion does indeed seem to be behind lots of sh't.

Actually it seems a culture is what defines a person more than their religion. Muslims from Indonesia and Malaysia are very much like all those from surrounding countries like Thailand. To me, a large population in the middle east have a big chip on the shoulder. If Islam wasn't the dominant religion, extremists would just be shouting the name of what ever was their religion when they were blowing something up. As the same with this guy in the video with a meat cleaver and bloody hands, he's obviously got something to prove.

[Skoze]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/22/woolwich-first-person-account

this is worth reading.