Grammar Nazi's

[1a2bcio8]

I'm dyslexic and I often get my grammar wrong irrespective of whether I appreciate a given rule. It depends on the day but sometimes even when I reread what I've written I miss a mistake. It's difficult to express the effort that's needed to not make certain mistakes and I'm not badly dyslexic. I really struggle to remember the tense or singularity/plurality I'm writing in and, without noticing, contradict myself. In other words, I have a sense about how bad dyslexia could be very problematic. Your abilities are such that you simply miss mistakes even if you try; like a blind spot in your vision.

I would speculate it's because often our use of language in the written form is so automated or sub-conscious that when that automation has faults it's easy to miss. Our conscious or non-automated attention is usually focused on the gist of what we want to say. I don't think we are able to give full conscious attention to every aspect of writing because there's a lot too it. For some people their automation works fine so that when they focus on the gist the rest just happens but, for some, like myself, it doesn't always.

But, yeah, I often re-read what I've written multiple times in order to get it right.

I don't think it helps that we aren't taught grammar at school. We used to be but now it's left to intuition which dyslexic people find especially difficult. I know I struggled a lot more before I read up about grammar and studied another language. I've never really shared the Nazi' grammarian attitude though. As long as I can understand people then it's enough for me. I personally enjoy trying to be as coherent as possible regarding the accepted usage of language but I don't expect others to be as rigorous.

I find grammar an interesting subject particularly in the sense that it shapes our view of reality. Studying Sanskrit was strange because the verb is at the end of sentences rather than the middle of the subject and object. This seemed, to me, like an inaccurate way of representing the way things are but, actually, it's no less valid. It's just another way that shapes the way we think about things and that may or may not give certain benefits in certain senses.

Edited May 22, 2013 by Ben Rowlands

[aener]

I don't get why some people who only know one language, that they have known all their lives, can't even use it properly.

Before anyone says dyslexia, that's true but plenty of people also get misdiagnosed because of various reasons.

This.

Dyslexia makes mistakes more understandable, but what it absolutely does not do is exempt you from needing to try.

Browsers even have built in spell-checkers. All you have to do is right click a word with a squiggly red line beneath it.

[1a2bcio8]

I still suspect that with bad dyslexia it isn't that simple. If you can't spell something in the first place, will a spellchecker definitely help? You still have to recognise the correct spelling which your dyslexia may preclude you from doing. I also suspect this is very difficult to appreciate from the side of someone who doesn't share the problem. Admittedly, I'm speculating. However, I'm sure there are people that are both lazy and dyslexic or simply just lazy. Distinguishing between wouldn't be easy.

[Revolver]

I'd like to read someone with poor command of their language's reasoning, but seeing as it's generally a lack of effort that causes duff English, I doubt we'd get a nice answer,

[1a2bcio8]

I'm not sure what you mean?

[Revolver]

It wasn't a reply, it's just, I explained why I tend towards grammar nazi-ism so it would be good to read someone on the other sife's reasoning. You don't count because you're way too verbose!

[Pashley26]

Umm...

Dyslexia is usually visible as a numeric disorder or a restraint in the ability to read fluidly, the rest of the time it is an excuse. It has very little to do with the way things are typed or written as the process of typing each letter allows the brain to slow down and form the words correctly.

Dyslexia is so much more than somebody who can't read or write correctly, if you were actually dyslexic you would have the same word recall issues when speaking.

Hardly anybody I have ever met has actually been told by a professional that they are dyslexic, most have just given themselves the label to excuse some sort of learning issue.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Pashley26

[1a2bcio8]

Well, I've been told by the appropriate authorities that I am dyslexic despite not being considered by your definition. It's most problematic for me in terms of my working memory and therefore my ability to multitask with ideas - I really struggle to take notes whilst listening - but mostly I struggle with auditory dyslexia. I often cannot process the words people say and totally mishear what's been said. I guess, in some sense, in a bid to understand what hasn't been heard properly some part of me overcompensates for and I often think people have said very strange things by way of projection. This can be quite amusing at least. Dyslexia is now recognised to manifest in a range of ways well beyond what you've said. For instance, quite randomly, I find it extremely difficult to remember the spelling of words like 'succession' where letters repeat. Other words I find so much easier to remember. I think this evidences just how complex and varied our processing abilities are such that small areas can be impaired whilst other areas are okay.

And speaking and writing are different things. Lesions on the brain can impair the ability of speech (hearing or speaking) but leave intact the capacity for reading and writing. The two different capacities may share some brain structures but they also differ in others. People can even have impaired hearing whilst remain the capacity for speech or vice versa, which is really quite strange but the way things can go. Furthermore, the sheer extent of the brain's complexity leaves it very open to what may seem like inconsistent problems if we overly simplify the brain into basic functions of behavior and ability.

There's also the fact that when you speak you don't require displaying all aspects of grammar in comparison to writing. There's nothing in pronunciation that tells someone you meant 'its' over 'it's', for example. Your spelling of the word in speech, so to speak, is simply phonetic making use of a different capacity than is responsible for correctly recognising and using the visual symbols of a word. Speech is also a more intuitive process in terms of grammar whereas writing is much more formal and, to an extent, an arbitrary way of representing speech although it functions quite well in its choices of symbols. Often, much of it is unnecessary although useful. This is evident when we look at other languages which often don't consider a lot of the grammar that we use without suffering in their ability to communicate.

I do get why people are skeptical of dyslexia. It's quite subtle in the sense it's not like a physical impairment or a severe mental one which is easy to recognise externally. What's interesting is that dyslexics tend to, at the same time to having impairments in some areas, possess stronger attributes in their thinking in others. They tend to be better 'big picture' thinkers, for example. So there's pros and cons. The thing is that, currently, society emphasizes, especially in education, not 'big picture' thinking but memory retention and narrow thinking or specialization. Thus, because tests do not vary according to ability - so that one could be tested on how one best understanding a given subject - they are compensated in the form of longer exam times, equipment to help them remember details, etc. It's a shame because both types of thinking are useful in their own way but we currently only really cultivate one and, I think, to the detriment of society.

edit: It's taken me about 4 readings to notice what is hopefully all of my bad grammar, use of the word 'over' when I meant 'other', and so on...

Edited May 23, 2013 by Ben Rowlands

[Matt Vandart]

I'll just leave this here to illustrate how pointless grammar and spelling are in reality.

[Muel]

I'll just leave this here to illustrate how pointless grammar and spelling are in reality.

Spelling, yes. Grammar, f**k no. Take all the punctuation away and then try to read it. Edited May 23, 2013 by Muel

[Matt Vandart]

Cool I will give it a whirl Sam

I could still read it

Edited May 23, 2013 by Matt Vandart

[Pashley26]

Cool I will give it a whirl Sam

I could still read it

That's because of the eureka effect I described earlier

[JT!]

You know when people bitch about how TF has changed and they want the old TF back, well this is it.