has anyone made his own pad refills?

[*gentlydoesit]

The pads I sent you mike are the new style ones, with the curves on the end. The square shaped ones are the first versions

yeah, that's what I meant I gave him the old style ones and compared pics with the new style.

*Fmlybkr

If you want I'll get a vernier on one tomorrow, but I'm betting dr stix is right

[FamilyBiker]

thanks,will correct my cad drawing accordingly.

[AdamR28]

Little bit of friendly advice (genuine)... Let someone who's very experienced with brake pads try a set before you spend a lot of money on tooling.

[FamilyBiker]

Little bit of friendly advice (genuine)... Let someone who's very experienced with brake pads try a set before you spend a lot of money on tooling.

want to try a set?you are very likely being experienced being a shop guy and a rider.

pm me your address.

its not that i dont know how my pads should be,and i am not an idiot when it comes to materials and tension,friction and so on,thats basically what i am into since years and years.

for the moment i´d say if a 90+kg guy(me) is abusing pads intentionally and they take it,its nice to know,i´ll see where this´ll go.

even if i spend say 100 euro for tooling and materials (thats pretty much what it turns out like atm,including mould)and my idea of producing pads professionally one day doesnt take off me and my mates´d be having our own awesome free pads for the rest of our lifes.

taking into account that i spend like 30euros a year for pads thats nice to know

3 sets to make for a break-even

Edited May 3, 2014 by FamilyBiker

[trials hoe]

thats a fair bit to spend on what is essentially a whim, ghetto produces results too

done quite well with keeping bubbles out of these

time to get busy with a stanley

[FamilyBiker]

yeah mate,thats nice.

but thats kind of the reason i´ve been going for a proper mould,i think i´d kill myself with a stanley knife cutting pads for hours and hours

how long does it take for you to make a set?

[trials hoe]

in terms of pouring and setting : about an hour, cutting the backing shape ect : 20 min...my index fingers are right to be scared of stanley blades, cut myself making the last set haha

vacum forming a mould would be a hell of a lot cheaper than cnc too, plus the initial blank isn't too difficult to make with balsa wood or something

[FamilyBiker]

with a resin that has a handling time of around 2h you´ll be having far less bubbles without doing anything,the bubbles have time to rise and pop.

just saying

look what i am doing right now,

first green ones with the good stuff.i had to change the receipt to match the amount of pigment added,too much of that stuff and it doesnt cure fully,bubblegumish pads then lol

[trials hoe]

I got the mix with the longest pot life i could, getting the bubbles out is a technique thing and as for a mould I'm only looking to make my own pads rather than mass produce. thought about pigments, just never bothered

[FamilyBiker]

whats the wear like on your pads with 70a?

on my 85a ones its pretty much non existent yet,after 3 rides though.

thought i´ll be glueing pads into the backings 24/7,but surprisingly still running the first set lol

Edited May 3, 2014 by FamilyBiker

[niconj]

Why not keep them red and white. Looks better than green and they will not be mistaken for TNN LGMs.

[trials hoe]

on a smooth rim good but any pad would be, would probably last mins on a harsh grind though haha.

did you try them unglued into a cnc backing? the 70a want to peel out a bit on the leading edge, wanna try a pair of the 70a's?

[FamilyBiker]

Why not keep them red and white. Looks better than green and they will not be mistaken for TNN LGMs.

my green is more a "hulkish" one,wheras the tnn ones are more of an emerald green.still testing,could be possible they stay white.

on a smooth rim good but any pad would be, would probably last mins on a harsh grind though haha.

did you try them unglued into a cnc backing? the 70a want to peel out a bit on the leading edge, wanna try a pair of the 70a's?

i tried glueing and unglued,some of the glued ones worked loose(no play,just the glue broke),but none came out.

a set for the front on my mates bike would be nice,yes

[trials hoe]

part of the reason I didn't use any pigment was the lack of colour option that haven't been done, would be wounding if someone asked "how'd you get them lgms to work so well?" haha

pm me an address dude, will send some out to you you'll need to cut the backing shape in yourself though...

you get first pick i guess, while the others are spoken for

funky pads the the flash on

[FamilyBiker]

i went through a huge amount of research now,on the bottom you see different pads,every one was another compound,and i made 2 sets of every compound.

then i cut one pad in half to see how consistent (air trapped,colour inconsistencies) the compound is and kept the single pads for future purposes,while riding a set of each during every of that processes

thats 8 different rubbers and compounds of each i´ve tested,with number 9 being the first of the new rubber,and number 10 being my personal "bullseye"

i went through 100euros to achieve this,so:

pad producers,how do you explain a set of pads being 20 euros?

kind of joking,but not completely i´m afraid

[Sam Nichols]

And yet remarkably I'd still feel more comfortable buying a set of 'proper' pads for £20 odd pounds or whatever the cost.

Sorry, but whilst what you've done is cool as a hobby project and pretty admirable, it's really not proper R&D, you've made a start but you still have a long way to go.

[Mark W]

pad producers,how do you explain a set of pads being 20 euros?

kind of joking,but not completely i´m afraid

Because as with any product, you're not simply paying the cost of the product being made.

[FamilyBiker]

sure,i am not quite there.

strange that,coustellier was cutting pads with a stanley knife and noone didnt care to ride them,just weeks after he came up with that stuff,they didnt have even the time i´ve tested my pads for before they gave them away back in 2004.

just weeks after the first ones were seen (actually they rode worn koxx pads to which the coust compound was glued ) they were available online.

noone complained,a pro rider couldnt do sh*t regading brake pads right?

they literally used people for prototyping.

i´m forcing nobody to try my pads,i am just saying that i like em very much,and the suggestion to try them for the cost i have making them isnt a crime,people have their own will.

sure,if i´d add labour costs like at work they´d be like 30€ a set.

but professional pads,apart from real cousts, are pumped out by an injection moulding machine with a frequency of like 100pc./hour,what costs would you add to this if they come from china?

the guy who sticks the label on the pack,10€?shipping as a single set at a time,3€?plus 6 euro handling fee to "finally earn some money" that´d be raising a 1 euro pad set up to where trialtech or or or are.but in real life shipping for a box with 1000pc is like 20€,the guy with the label roll costs 150 a month because he´s chinese.

should people pay labour costs for the guy who orders them in china,as high as if he´d made them by hand as i do?most pads are just handed over from the shipping box to the customer,is it right that this raises the price per set by 10€

maybe i am a bit oldskool here,kind of a dreamer,i just cant figure out how this works.first world robs other countries workers,thats what this is telling me.

the reason why i´ve started this^^

believe me,pads are hardly a eur or gbp a set in production,i talked to several manufacturers (on aliblahblah andhere in germany) if they could produce my stuff,they just cant provide the same rubber i´ve found.

and to be honest making pads makes familybiker happy

Edited May 5, 2014 by FamilyBiker

[trials hoe]

You're moaning about the retail price vs manufacture cost...i do that a lot haha. Especially after seeing the two costs side by side at work with overpriced clothing.

Will post you some of the 70s this week dude

Making other things would make me happier someone give me a 3d printer, tig welder, lathe and milling setup...pretty please haha

[Mark W]

sure,if i´d add labour costs like at work they´d be like 30€ a set.

but professional pads,apart from real cousts, are pumped out by an injection moulding machine with a frequency of like 100pc./hour,what costs would you add to this if they come from china?

the guy who sticks the label on the pack,10€?shipping as a single set at a time,3€?plus 6 euro handling fee to "finally earn some money" that´d be raising a 1 euro pad set up to where trialtech or or or are.but in real life shipping for a box with 1000pc is like 20€,the guy with the label roll costs 150 a month because he´s chinese.

I'm almost certain we've had exactly the same conversation about frames before, but might as well go down this old road again - if you're looking at a company like Trialtech, Try-All or whoever, your break-down of costs leaves out quite a lot. There's the cost of the pads being made, shipping costs from the manufacturer to the company, customs charges (because they'll usually be part of a large order so you can't just slip them past customs), shipping costs from the company to a distributor/shop, then VAT (or similar, depending on country) when the shop sells them to a customer. That's not even taking into account that the company will usually have a profit margin they'll work to (without which there's very little financial incentive to produce the pads, and also no money then available for future projects/R&D), then a margin that the shop will work to (for similar reasons). Another possible thing that would raise the price is that some pad companies use material developed by other individuals, which would then also potentially introduce another cost as the material may need to be licensed from said person, or they'd want a cut of some sort.

I'm not saying whether the price for pads are right or wrong, but you're putting across a very much skewed, inaccurate version of the pricing of products, especially if they're part of the manufacturer -> company -> shop -> customer chain rather than just "pad company" -> customer chain. The one I've put up there is pretty simplified and misses out some stuff too, but even so it's still a lot closer to the realities of the situation than what you put in yours.

[FamilyBiker]

sure,and i understand the processes behind it,maybe i came across the wrong way.i´m the kind of guy that is rather buying at a known source (or "local"if you like,taking marino out of the equation,he´s just the only custom steel frame maker i am related to)than supporting the "1st world eats 3rd world" thing (yes another phrase of that kind,y´all should know my way to express by now )

its real,someone can produce pads here in europe and sell them for a tenner plus postage without loosing money.i could go up to the prices established "manufacturers" or labellers take and easily earn say 500€ per month from pads in my spare time,just from the demand i have in 2 forums atm.and thats with labour costs of 10€/hour.(edited,wrong button lol)a mould for 10 pairs is needed

i redefine my question(not that it wont be ripped apart anyways):

why does it have to be pads that go up from a few cents a piece to 20€ a set?while taking all this effort and climate change factors like transport etc,health politics in the producer countries...

if the above is possible.

a forum is a place where opinions can be shared,not a place where one says something and another one writes a virtual book in return.

i respect your opinion,man.but it seems like every bike business related post i make is an invitation for you to take your torch and go lynching the villain

Edited May 5, 2014 by FamilyBiker

[Mark W]

a forum is a place where opinions can be shared,not a place where one says something and another one writes a virtual book in return

I know actually using facts isn't something you're really keen on, but your post that I replied to was over 380 words. My reply was just over 280. Who's writing the book there?

I don't think I've really replied to you for a while, largely because I blocked you and only really read a post of yours from time to time if I click to actually check it out (usually based on seeing someone reply to it).

You're doing the same thing again though as before - saying "Discounting the reasons that make up the answer, how come X is Y?" Don't worry though, I'm rapidly remembering why I set your posts to 'ignore' so consider the torch extinguished. Good luck with the pads though, I'm sure you'd be able to earn "€500 a month" doing it. I once heard another pad manufacturer say almost exactly the same thing before. They're not around these days...

EDIT: OK, I lied - one thing I remembered just now while I was in the shower.

Chapter 2.

While I was still at TartyBikes, we got a particular type of Heatsink pad in. I can't remember which one it was, but they were pretty new. TrialsAddict got them in too, and were selling them at a reduced price. Because I can't remember the specific type of pads they were I can't remember how much it was, but it was a comparatively reasonable chunk of money off. As Heatsink and TrialsAddict aren't VAT-registered, TrialsAddict were able to sell them at that price and make possibly a tiny amount per pair sold (assuming they paid the same trade price as us). Because TartyBikes ARE VAT-registered, it was impossible for us to match that price as we'd have been losing money on each pair sold, even though we theoretically paid the same price per pad as TrialsAddict. To the customer there was a fairly large difference in price, but that didn't really tell the whole story in terms of who was making what, and what was therefore a 'reasonable' price for the pads to be. If you didn't know about the difference in VAT-reg status, it'd look like TartyBikes were just raking in a load of extra money, whereas that wasn't actually the case. The point I'm getting at is that there are a lot of variables in each chain of manufacturer -> customer, and doing a kind of broad, blanket statement using some relatively plucked-out-the-air numbers isn't really an accurate way of working out what's 'right'.

[FamilyBiker]

see,i am not a business guy(and you´ve seen that from my posts).i am a guy of doing stuff.you´ll never get things in my head that for your thinking are just normal.you could be my neighbour asking me to swap over some potatoes for his tomatoes,that´d work.

maybe i am just to simple minded (drops tear),and not made to exist in such a world.....

baaaaaam!(shot head)

nah,honestly,i am sure a few dudes on here are with me with my -in your opinion inaccurate- way of thinking that life and trading as a part of it could and should be way simpler than it is now.

i am not keen on working/consuming/repeat and dying after that without doing something with my life i am happy about.

(which btw i am doing as we speak,making pads for everyone,just for the fun of it ).

[Sam Nichols]

Don't forget the Pareto Principle! If 80% of the people say they definitely will buy your pads for £xx, only 20% will. I don't make the rules!

[FamilyBiker]

no problem,if 10 of the 40 people who asked me will buy a set i can continue making them even quicker because i can order compound in advance

but thanks,i am used to mass psychology and have a coworker that is a former dr. phil.

no offence taken,just joking back

(except for the 40 and the dr.phil )

Edited May 5, 2014 by FamilyBiker