2013 Echo SL cranks.

[AdamR28]

I'm a little disappointed that people arnt greatful that companies are trying to develop better trials components, it's a big factor that's pushed the limits of riding to today's standards.

People starting off trials these days have it so easy. Regarding the technology of bikes compared with ten years ago. These days you can learn a back hop in ten mins with bikes that are light and sit on the rear wheel with ease.

Of course the limited testing that companies such as echo are doing which is very limited is a draw back but trials parts take a very different level oh abuse from different riding styles it's impossible to test conclusively.

That's where you as the rider really needs to consider every thing fully before buying a 300gram pair of cranks to do 12ft drop gaps over and over

At the end of the days it's comon sense and I would rather see the limits being explored rather than just stagnating

So there will be failures! That's just part of it.

Agreed!

2) Is a reset ti bb and tryall cranks okay for a basher then? Just curious.

5) Not at all? People seem to do a good job of it on forums, even if it is just a rough estimate.

2) Yes and no - because of my 5). One person's definition of basher is totally different to someone else's too. There are just too many variables. The lifespan of Try-All cranks and Reset BB would have to be stated as 'from 1 ride to 4 years', as 1 ride is how quickly someone could theoretically kill them from a botched dropgap, and 4 years (or more) is how long mine have been on my bike. You'd need this sort of wide range n every product as well, so it wouldn't really help at all.

[Ross McArthur]

2) Is a reset ti bb and tryall cranks okay for a basher then? Just curious.

What's a basher?

Just curious.

[bing]

What's a basher?

Just curious.

Someone who has the skill, grace and smoothness of an anvil when it comes to landing and getting up stuff. Hope this clears things up for you bud

[AdamR28]

Haha. So 80% of trials riders?

[Jake.]

2) Yes and no - because of my 5). One person's definition of basher is totally different to someone else's too. There are just too many variables. The lifespan of Try-All cranks and Reset BB would have to be stated as 'from 1 ride to 4 years', as 1 ride is how quickly someone could theoretically kill them from a botched dropgap, and 4 years (or more) is how long mine have been on my bike. You'd need this sort of wide range n every product as well, so it wouldn't really help at all.

Thanks for clearing that up Ads

What's a basher?

Just curious.

Basically what bing said. Someone who doesn't land smoothly, tries stuff that's a teeny too big for them and never quite makes a move, such as a pedal-up too high = slip to bash/downtube etc..

[AdamR28]

No worries - I feel I should add a bit more to what I said...

You *could* narrow it down a bit, but then as soon as something lasts more or less time that was stated, the person who made that 'claim' would instantly be labelled wrong or lying, etc. Which isn't ideal! There's already too much finger-pointing and not enough taking responsibility for your own actions / decisions in the world

[CC12345678910]

.

Edited May 8, 2013 by CC12345678910

[Jake.]

You *could* narrow it down a bit, but then as soon as something lasts more or less time that was stated, the person who made that 'claim' would instantly be labelled wrong or lying, etc. Which isn't ideal! There's already too much finger-pointing and not enough taking responsibility for your own actions / decisions in the world

Yeah I've noticed that quite a bit, when people have stuff that last much less than stated a debate comes up. Especially with echo freewheels lol. You could put a rough estimate BUT say "These estimates are generated through reviews and people who have given feedback on the product, please don't take this time for granted due to every rider is of different shape and size, with different riding styles too". That sounds like it could work well, but only with products you are sure that have been put through realistic use.

[ghostrider88]

Yeah I've noticed that quite a bit, when people have stuff that last much less than stated a debate comes up. Especially with echo freewheels lol. You could put a rough estimate BUT say "These estimates are generated through reviews and people who have given feedback on the product, please don't take this time for granted due to every rider is of different shape and size, with different riding styles too". That sounds like it could work well, but only with products you are sure that have been put through realistic use.

It´s a different story with Sl freewheel though.

[AdamR28]

I see what you mean. Problem is, there are already a lot of situations that are filled with disclaimers like that - nobody reads them, and guess who is the 'bad guy'...I genuinely think they are simply too many variables.

[CC12345678910]

Agreed!

But there could be a company that explored the limits of strength using well designed products and well picked materials??

I remember not that long ago when there was the comp stuff AND the bashy TGS products. Mind you they still broke too but seemed to take more abuse back then.

Aside from the street scene, there just seems to be different degrees of comp lightness to me.

With mabye JAF being the exception.

Does this seem fair to peeps?

Edited May 8, 2013 by CC12345678910

[dngr2self]

I would agree. It's good to see the limits of lightness being explored but why not, as mentioned above, explore the limits of strength.

[ghostrider88]

I remember not that long ago when there was the comp stuff AND the bashy TGS products. Mind you they still broke too but seemed to take more abuse back then.

Back than frames weighted over 2kg too, just sayin...

[AdamR28]

I would agree. It's good to see the limits of lightness being explored but why not, as mentioned above, explore the limits of strength.

Because very few customers would buy the stuff cos it 'too heavy'.

[CC12345678910]

Back than frames weighted over 2kg too, just sayin...

The frames don't have to way that much more though, that's the daft bit. In some cases 150g and a better/differnantly designed... oh i dunno... bash mount say, or a thicker BB yoke is the difference when the a frame is 'improved', (read 'it works now lads') the next year, or after 6 months of complaints from retailers and the beta testers, us the PAYING CUSTOMER. (Deng seems to be deaf, chinese retrictions or not) Microsoft would good example of this test it on customers crap.

Because very few customers would buy the stuff cos it 'too heavy'.

The amount of times i've wanted to slap someone because the part that they should have bought was 'too heavy' by 50 grammes. Instead I see this type of rider spending lots of time in the tool bag with a bike that is fragile and not used for what it was made to do.

Be a bike and be ridden, not cotton wooled.

But If that is where the maket is so be it. Thats what the retailer has to buy in beacuse it sells. Unless a very well known retailer could start their line of products again... My TB bashring for example took so much sh8t on an old set-up that the bb snapped and bash looks like new, just needs a coat of paint. The TB bars are mint too.

And strong would be less work on warranties too no doubt?

Edited May 8, 2013 by CC12345678910

[ghostrider88]

The frames don't have to way that much more though, that's the daft bit. In some cases 150g and a better/differnantly designed... oh i dunno... bash mount say, or a thicker BB yoke is the difference when the a frame is 'improved', (read 'it works now lads') the next year, or 6 months of complaints from retailers and the beta testers, us the PAYING CUSTOMER. That really gets my goat that does. Microsoft are good example of this test it on customers crap.

The amount of times i've wanted to slap someone because the part that they should have bought was 'too heavy'. Instead I see this type of rider spending lots of time in the tool bag with a bike that is fragile and not used for what it was made to do.

Be a bike and be ridden, not cotton wooled.

It would be less work on warranties too no doubt?

Don´t have to but they did and it worked very well. The question is who would buy it nowdays? Noone, it seems to me people are buying lightweight stuff just so they have excuse to buy new parts every three months. About the warranty part, that´s why they offer little to no warranty. 3months for a frame? You gotta be kidding.

Edited May 8, 2013 by ghostrider88

[dave33]

Any part forsale should still be fit for its purpose and last a reasonable amount of time.

[stunt man t]

Any part forsale should still be fit for its purpose and last a reasonable amount of time.

its impossible for a part designed to be used in trials riding, as different riders ride in different ways?

take the try-all 108.9 freewheel

some skipt and some were ok

Edited May 8, 2013 by stunt man t

[CC12345678910]

Both above posts seem to be true.

I agree slightly more with the fit for purpose arguement though.

Edited May 8, 2013 by CC12345678910

[ghostrider88]

its impossible for a part designed to be used in trials riding, as different riders ride in different ways?

take the try-all 108.9 freewheel

some skipt and some were ok

Freewheel is a bad example, even if it skipped it was still in one piece and usable. Snapped parts on the other hand aren´t. And because manufacturers are not obliged to support their products with for example 1year warranty, they can make stuff like they do.

[dave33]

IMO its up to the retailer to make the choice as to sell the product or not. After all the responsibility falls on them.

Echo seem to have done their job of testing through Burton but there are many more factors that could have caused the failure. Material spec. Manufacturing process, wrong diamentions etc.

And with out any more information it's impossible to say. Who knows maybe he dropped off 15ft

[ghostrider88]

Who knows maybe he dropped off 15ft

The pic is from Russia, so it´s quite possible.

[LEON]

I think if you're gonna buy cranks like that, you need accept that you'll have to replace them fairly regularly to avoid breaking them.

They're not Saints, you can't fit & forget them.

Edited May 8, 2013 by LEON

[Martin Reynolds]

I always thought deng was going down the right route with with TR/SL thing. Have one line of products which are superlight, then another for strong/reliable.

[bing]

Any part forsale should still be fit for its purpose and last a reasonable amount of time.

Even more so if you are paying upwards of £100 for a part. If you are spending that kind of money, a reasonable lifespan is to be expected. Freewheels aren't really a valid point, because of the amount of hammer they get, and they way they are designed and built. Sometimes cheaper parts will last longer, but usually because they are heavier and more solidly built.