Blown Fork Seal Help

[aener]

So I was out on my Marin today. Finally getting to grips with having three times the travel I used to have and the comparatively insane speeds the bike lets me travel at (still pretty slow ).

Unfortunately, I've managed to blow a seal in the forks (Fox Talas 32s). I suspect it was from riding the other day whilst having the lockout engaged.

I've never had to dismantle suspension before, so I'm a little worried about it - especially as the two people I was with couldn't agree on whether it was the "top" or "bottom" seals. Are there any pictures I can take that'll let you guys in the know tell me?

I've done a bit of looking on the internet, and it doesn't seem all that difficult to dis- and re-assemble the forks, but all the guides I've found only show one set (the dust-wiper things. This guide seems the best I've found, but the only seals mentioned are the top ones. Do all forks have a "top" and "bottom" set, and the others just aren't listed in this guide? I don't want to buy replacements only to find they're the wrong ones.

I know I could just get them serviced, but I want to be able to do this myself for future instances, and don't want to pay the frankly absurd prices places are asking for.

If you need/it would be easier to diagnose with specific pictures, let me know. I understand I'll probably have to dismantle them to take said pictures, but that's Ok since I can't ride them anyway

Cheers!

[dezmtber]

If those fox forks are leaking oil. You will find the stanctions below the seals will be knackered. It's normaly a £300-350 service from mojo suspension.

New bushes, crown steerer upper and seals all round.

[Krisboats]

I'd ignore that rather doom and gloom prognosis, the bushings are there to ensure the fork stanchions dont rock while sliding up and down. If you take them apart and there's no scratches at the bottom of the stanchions then the bushings wont need relacing unless they were rocking before you found they were leaking.

Again, if theres no scratches on the fork stantions then you wont need new upper crown, steerer and stanchions. I highly doubt you would do, but it wouldnt hurt to check. A scratch that catches your fingernail could be sanded down to insignificance with 1500 grit wet and dry, slightly bigger ones can be more tricky and require bodging with nail varnish to fill the void.

If the seals up top are old then they may cause the forks to leak, or it could be a blown o-ring somewhere. If like you say, the lockout was on, then i'd wager towards an o-ring or main seal. Main seals should be ideally replaced every year, however not many people bother as you can usually get a bit longer out of them. When they stretch or wear they can let quite a lot of oil out.

[dezmtber]

If there over a year old with no service I can almost be 99% they will have marks on the stanctions.

I have seen 2012 fox float 32 fork legs last 5 months on two forks used by xc lads at work.

The seals and bushes used on more recent fox forks have been terible.

The older ones weren't great either.

While foxes work there awsome but if your after relabilty. On seals and bushes rockshox seem to be top.

[Matthew62]

Cummon, that's a bit of the ol' bullshit. I had my 36 Talas serviced a few months ago after having had them for 2 or 3 years. There were no marks or issues, I just got some new seals fitted as it felt about time but there was nothing wrong with the forks. Having Fox forks over a year old isn't a guarantee they're in trouble.

However having said that I don't see them as the out and out amazing forks they're always considered to be in terms of performance. I've recently tried a lot of Rockshox forks and really like the way they perform, hence why I've currently got a set of Pike's on order.

Can't help with the forks as I've always relied on people who know what they're doing to take my forks apart and service them. Talas forks can be a bit tricky due to the Talas assembly which is quite intricate and can be a bit prone to issues. I'm not sure how this affects the removing and refitting of seals but it's just something to be aware of, apparently the internals are quite fragile.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Matthew62

[aener]

So - I'll take them apart and have a look. If Dez's diagnosis is right, I'll just get some new forks. If he's not, from what my uneducated self can gather, it's probably just these that need replacing?

(Are these what people call the "top seals" or the "main seals", or are they the same thing?)

Obviously with oil changes etc.

Are there any giveaway signs to look out for that it's something else? (Or is it super obvious - like the o-rings will have tears in them or something?)

Thanks, I know it must be painful trying to explain intricate systems to someone who's never even looked at them

Edit: Searching for seal kits, the only packs that come up are ones like these: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fox-Forx-Fork-SKF-32mm-Low-Friction-Seal-Kit-803-00-613-Talas-Van-Float-/160836572746?pt=UK_SportsLeisure_Cycling_BikeLocks_SR&hash=item25729b564a

Would this do it? It's this area that the oil's coming out of, but I didn't know if that might be because too much is flooding in from elsewhere in the leg.

Also - is suspension fluid suspension fluid, or do different forks need different types? From what I've read, any 10wt fluid is Ok, but thought I'd check. (Coming from a background of Dot5 destroys Magura o-rings... don't wanna do something akin to that.) Thanks again.

Edited May 7, 2013 by aener

[Krisboats]

Yep those are the main seals, i'd be very suprised if dez is right to be fair (no offence meant, just you listed almost every possible problem) so i'd get a set on order and pick up some fork oil from the local motorbike shop. Its the same as mountain bike stuff, just you get more for cheaper.

Unfortunately o-rings can be hard to source as a problem. They can leak if they've just stretched or worn a little bit and determining if they're to blame is usually a case of seeing where the leak is and replacing the ones linked to that area. The other option is to replace every o-ring in the fork at the same time.

If the oil is leaking and smeared up the stantions and trickling down the back of the fork leg then i'd be 99% sure a main seal replacement will do the trick.

If you want to check the other areas of the fork then you'll need to carefully measure how much oil comes out of each area when dismantling and checking against the service manual oil levels chart.

[forteh]

Can't help with your problems but I was looking at the fox service manuals and decided against ever getting fox forks! OK they might work well but they do seem excessively complicated and somewhat fragile. I can see why the servicing is expensive, but imho 30 hours service intervals is pretty shoddy as well, my old bombers went for 9 years without a single issue before I serviced them

I like my nice and simple bombers

Good luck with the fix though!

[aener]

Yep those are the main seals, i'd be very suprised if dez is right to be fair (no offence meant, just you listed almost every possible problem) so i'd get a set on order and pick up some fork oil from the local motorbike shop. Its the same as mountain bike stuff, just you get more for cheaper.

Unfortunately o-rings can be hard to source as a problem. They can leak if they've just stretched or worn a little bit and determining if they're to blame is usually a case of seeing where the leak is and replacing the ones linked to that area. The other option is to replace every o-ring in the fork at the same time.

If the oil is leaking and smeared up the stantions and trickling down the back of the fork leg then i'd be 99% sure a main seal replacement will do the trick.

If you want to check the other areas of the fork then you'll need to carefully measure how much oil comes out of each area when dismantling and checking against the service manual oil levels chart.

This is exactly the case, so I'll try it first (and hopefully last).

Thank you.

[dezmtber]

I would say fork seals should fix it no problems.

But before you part with cash.

Turn the bike upside down. Undo to 10mm nuts on the bottom. And knock the treaded parts in. Then pull the lowers off about 2-3" to get a look at the stanctions.

[Krisboats]

This is exactly the case, so I'll try it first (and hopefully last).Thank you.

No worries.

[dezmtber]

This is the fox fork damage I see at least once a week

[krazykid009]

This is the fox fork damage I see at least once a week

I would say fork seals should fix it no problems.

But before you part with cash.

Turn the bike upside down. Undo to 10mm nuts on the bottom. And knock the treaded parts in. Then pull the lowers off about 2-3" to get a look at the stanctions.

If there over a year old with no service I can almost be 99% they will have marks on the stanctions.

I have seen 2012 fox float 32 fork legs last 5 months on two forks used by xc lads at work.

The seals and bushes used on more recent fox forks have been terible.

The older ones weren't great either.

While foxes work there awsome but if your after relabilty. On seals and bushes rockshox seem to be top.

If those fox forks are leaking oil. You will find the stanctions below the seals will be knackered. It's normaly a £300-350 service from mojo suspension.

New bushes, crown steerer upper and seals all round.

dezmtbr, if you see that once a week and you tell people it's a new stanchion/crown, then oyu guys must be raking in a whole lot of cash for no reason! It is very unlikely you will have scratched or damaged the stanchion at all, not unless you have come off and rammed it into a rock/tree, or covered it in grit and ridden down a rocky descent! My Foxes are about 3 years old now, and I have just blown them in the same way Flipp has. A simple (and much needed) seal change has fixed them, and they're good as new!

[haydon_peter]

If the fork has worn as badly as the photo Dez just posted I'm sure you could just fit new seals and be happy but ideally it's new fork/stanchion time!

[aener]

Cheers guys, that's very reassuring. I'll get a set ordered.

[FamilyBiker]

This is the fox fork damage I see at least once a week

i know this signs of wear only from the case the bushings had play and werent replaced,with riding the forks though...

[krazykid009]

Did you ever get this sorted in the end buddy?

[aener]

Got the seals, just waiting on the oil and then the fun/massacre can commence.