Rob Leech Posted April 27, 2013 Report Share Posted April 27, 2013 some of the frames that had the head angle off were because people who ordered had no idea of geo and ordered like 1080/365/72° and wanted a certain reach though,there are things you cant build because of physics.in that cases marino asks if youre sure,someone thinks he did his homework and either insist on the hta or the reach,not knowing that one makes the other impossible lol the lack of a decent jig plays a role in that too,imagine the build quality if he had one! Then you speak to the customer and let them know that something has to be changed to allow for the reach, not just go ahead with a measurement that's going to alter the overall geometry of the frame. If they do insist, you show them the drawing of the frame with the dimensions clearly shown then ask them to confirm that this decission would be final. Saying that the customer, who 9 times out of 10 dosen't realise that changing a single point can alter the frame massively, didn't do their homework isn't really an excuse when you're a professional who can see that the measurements don't add up. Frames that would have the exact geometry required? That'd be nice from a custom frame builder........ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted April 27, 2013 Report Share Posted April 27, 2013 I'm sure there are issues every now & then like there are with any product. Possibly, but when everyone I know has had the wrong head angle it sort of seems more than just a 'one-off' in that I know several people it's happened to. Ali's frame had a 76° head angle, for example. It'd be interesting to know how many people actually measure the geo of their frames when they get them too - it seems quite a few don't, which could be why you only hear problems from the people who do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperclip Posted April 27, 2013 Report Share Posted April 27, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEON Posted April 27, 2013 Report Share Posted April 27, 2013 (edited) Maybe he uses the Trials Forum tape measure? That's always a couple of feet off I'm not disagreeing. He should get some sort of jig, but I don't know his situation with hardware/workshop/money and it's not my business or my problem, but even that's not a guarantee from anyone. I've had products from BIG companies with all the top technology that are still way off. Echo forks where one leg was longer than the other, brake bosses so off centre that one V brake arm needed about 5mm of extra spacers. An Orange Zero where the headtube sat a good 3mm left of centre from the top/downtube. Orange Zeros of the same year with different head angles. Pace frame 4 bolt mounts that were about 10deg off and seemed to follow the curved seat stays and not the rim (a £600 frame) Those early Ashton forks where the disc mounts didn't line up. The same forks I had came with one v boss welded on so crooked it affected the feel of the brake. Never had any Trialtech forks myself but a friend has, why do the dropouts need filing to get a wheel in? Not a huge deal I know but I think on a £150 pair of forks I'd be right to expect perfection, all the other examples are from personal experience. I have no answers, I've simply injured my shoulder & have nothing better to do this weekend. Edited April 27, 2013 by LEON Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isitafox Posted April 27, 2013 Report Share Posted April 27, 2013 The trialtech dropouts only need filing if you use an echo hub as they have bigger axles than standard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 Never had any Trialtech forks myself but a friend has, why do the dropouts need filing to get a wheel in? Not a huge deal I know but I think on a £150 pair of forks I'd be right to expect perfection, all the other examples are from personal experience. Like Dave said - the Trialtech forks are made to the international standard size of 9mm. Echo hubs are made to 10mm. The £135 forks are correct. The other bits you mentioned all seem to be relatively old (e.g. Orange and Pace frames) - the majority of frames now are virtually all spot-on, definitely in terms of geometry primarily because the use of a jig means you can't really get a one-off frame wrong. In fairness it's not just Marino who get it wrong as the WIP frames people I know got weren't exactly accurate, but again if it's a custom frame I'd want it to be 100% perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bing Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 Ill just leave this here, its one i made earlier 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostrider88 Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 Ill just leave this here, its one i made earlierimage.jpg More like 1-2weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamilyBiker Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 (edited) fyi its a joke!in the past a few didnt get this lol Edited April 28, 2013 by FamilyBiker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEON Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 Like Dave said - the Trialtech forks are made to the international standard size of 9mm. Echo hubs are made to 10mm. The £135 forks are correct. The other bits you mentioned all seem to be relatively old (e.g. Orange and Pace frames) - the majority of frames now are virtually all spot-on, definitely in terms of geometry primarily because the use of a jig means you can't really get a one-off frame wrong. In fairness it's not just Marino who get it wrong as the WIP frames people I know got weren't exactly accurate, but again if it's a custom frame I'd want it to be 100% perfect. Didn't know that about echo, seems pointless but fair enough. They're relatively old frames but still made by legendary English companies who I'm assuming have more technology (mainly Orange) than Deng or any other small trials company, companies who just dabbled in trials for a bit and had much bigger things going on in the mountain biking world, so I doubt just their trials stuff was affected. But yeah, geo should be spot on I agree, and from personal experience mine is. So Cleric, again, the choice is yours (you probably gave up reading this thread) in any thread titled "Marino" you'll get opposing views, you'll also get the bummers/fan boys posting the memes, most of whom probably never owned a Jaf OR a Marino but want to feel part of it 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bing Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 Didn't know that about echo, seems pointless but fair enough. They're relatively old frames but still made by legendary English companies who I'm assuming have more technology (mainly Orange) than Deng or any other small trials company, companies who just dabbled in trials for a bit and had much bigger things going on in the mountain biking world, so I doubt just their trials stuff was affected. But yeah, geo should be spot on I agree, and from personal experience mine is. So Cleric, again, the choice is yours (you probably gave up reading this thread) in any thread titled "Marino" you'll get opposing views, you'll also get the bummers/fan boys posting the memes, most of whom probably never owned a Jaf OR a Marino but want to feel part of it Well said son, I was all ready to order a Jaf but for the bloody car breaking down, so it got put on the backburner. Then i broke my foot. i was trying to get a bite out of him, and it worked. I was gonna have a Jaf copy of a 2011 echo lite, less the bash mounts, but with the option for maggie and disk, and an onza style chain tension system. I was debating a 135 rear end, so I could use a pro 2, but it'll have to wait a few months now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dann2707 Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 fyi its a joke!in the past a few didnt get this lol I don't know how else to put this, but I really think this forum would be a much better place without your posts. You're just really not that funny hahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamilyBiker Posted April 29, 2013 Report Share Posted April 29, 2013 so you were one of that few! :wink2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezmtber Posted April 29, 2013 Report Share Posted April 29, 2013 Orange bikes still get things wrong now I can nearly count the bikes I have seen last year with shock mounts welded off centre and rear swing arms unagligned They all go back for either replacement or bending straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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