leecee Posted April 26, 2013 Report Share Posted April 26, 2013 i'm new to this so i'm a bit clueless but.. i'm currently riding a commencal max max dj/park bike, it's a 26 and has got a pretty short wheelbase. i'm looking to get more of a street trials bike, looking at 24s, so had a go on a standard spec 2010 zoot but it seemed kind of too long - more awkward generally pulling up the front wheel/doing manuals etc. i've had the commencal for a little while now so i guess it's a case of getting use to a different bike but the zoot definitely didn't feel right.. so i was wondering do the inspired element 24 / fourplays have a similar geometry / ride similar to the zoot? also, the stem on my commencal (and most dj bikes) are generally different to trials bikes so they would make quite a bit of difference to the ride too? any advice much appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamilyBiker Posted April 26, 2013 Report Share Posted April 26, 2013 most people seem to change the bars/stem combo to some higher/shorter setup after buying the bike and seem to do better for bunny hops etc. the zoot is more on the longer side of frame reach,so if youre used to a park bike maybe an inspired is more suitable for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash-Kennard Posted April 26, 2013 Report Share Posted April 26, 2013 trials bikes tend to have longer reach and wheel base than dj bikes, but as said a high bar and stem combo should help massively. i know on my mates NS all you need to do is lean back and the front wheel picks up, i've found that trials bikes need more force to get them up to the balance point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leecee Posted April 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2013 yeah it doesn't take much to pick up the front wheel on the commencal, like you say - you just lean back! thanks for the advice, i'll look into the inspired / changing the bars/stem.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooo Posted May 4, 2013 Report Share Posted May 4, 2013 I find on bikes with different bb heights its a different angle that you have to lean back at / different motion to pull up the front wheel. On my dirt bike i have to pull back then up, on my fourplay just jump up and kick the rear wheel underneath you, (its a lot less effort to get into a vertical position than a dirt bike). As for manuals they are a lot harder on the higher bb bikes, there is a much shorter range between front wheel of the floor and looping out. You basically have to be almost stood up to manual them, where as on a 4x bike you can be almost sat down. I can manual my dirt bike easily and its just locks into the position, I still struggle getting a metre out of my fourplay. Running a shorter stem and high bars will make streety moves easier and the Zoot more comfortable / fun, I run a 70mm (but some people prefer 90mm) Element is pretty similar to some Zoots, both Onza and Inspired change their geo across years and models, at some point there is an overlap but i can't remember where. I don't think the 10mm wheelbase will greatly change your ability for trials at this point, although I have heard the zoot forks are heavy (may or may not be true for your model). Just keep trying, its a different geo and needs different body language, you will find the sweet spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamilyBiker Posted May 4, 2013 Report Share Posted May 4, 2013 ^^this. had a 990 wb,+20 frame and changed to 1030/+53,manuals are trickier than before and i´m totally relearning pedal ups atm,because the frame reacts that different on my movements. short little hijack:did anybody ride both a steety and a trialsy frame with the same wheelsize and can compare the different movements for pedal ups for me? i have the feeling a streety frame was a bit easier to get up to rear,but its paradox... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooo Posted May 4, 2013 Report Share Posted May 4, 2013 :did anybody ride both a steety and a trialsy frame with the same wheelsize and can compare the different movements for pedal ups for me? Can't compare same wheel size but when i went from mod to 24 street I found I had to lean back more. Think about standing completely straight mid-air with your bars on your lap. Higher bb will put your wheel more forward, lower bb put your rear wheel more behind you; so you have to lean back to land, making you feel more unstable on high pedal ups. Higher stack will put your rear wheel even further back and will also mean you have to lean back earlier for the pedal up to avoid the front wheel hitting. Higher bb and lower stack means higher pedal ups, while feeling more comfortable and less likely to loop out on landing. Even though a pure trials geo should be better for going higher, I don't think it makes it any easier. You may have just got into the habit of using the bunny hopping motion to get to rear which is easier on the shorter cockpit, whereas a pure frame needs some other variation of the motion, probably more upward jump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamilyBiker Posted May 4, 2013 Report Share Posted May 4, 2013 (edited) the weird thing is that in vids it always looks like a more trialsy bike tends to shoot up an obstacle from litlle to no distance,whereas street bikes seem to need runups.for me and my frame change it feels the other way round,the street frame was going up stuff from standing next to it,the trialsy frame wants me to pull up from more distance to the obstacle. strange,i know i´ll get ups dialled again,but atm its pretty annoying lol... Edited May 4, 2013 by FamilyBiker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leecee Posted May 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2013 still looking out for an inspired to try out. i definitely want to keep on with manuals/rolling/not too static and the commencal is good for that though it has a really short feel. so, i think something in between and quite a bit of getting used to the different setup/geo is the way forward.. again thanks for the info! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trials-Mikey Posted May 19, 2013 Report Share Posted May 19, 2013 still looking out for an inspired to try out. i definitely want to keep on with manuals/rolling/not too static and the commencal is good for that though it has a really short feel. so, i think something in between and quite a bit of getting used to the different setup/geo is the way forward.. again thanks for the info! josh leech @jaf bikesmight be able to help steer you in the right direction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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