FamilyBiker Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 (edited) but the other thing is that you´d have no comparability between different bars,when it comes to "pure rise" if you choose bars from total rise,it could kill your wrists: 76mm rise /4°up has similar total rise then 50mm rise with 8°up.(assuming both have 700 in width) 8°upsweep,horrible! if it was total rise in the whole bike industry you´d get a random geo everytime you change bars i think it´d be better everyone would call it up/back/rise,more clear to see what you get Edited March 21, 2013 by FamilyBiker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 You'd look at up-sweep too. It's like those Trialtechs. if they were measured like the rest of the world they'd only be a 2" maybe 2.5" rise bar, but in reality the important bit where your hands actually go are more like 3" rise. I'd rather know where my hands are going to be rather than where some bent bits of tube are. Same with Da-Bombs, I'd rather know they are 100mm (or whatever) tall where my hands sit rather than 75mm where my hands don't sit. Once I see how tall a bar is, I can then look at the angle of rise to see if it's wrist friendly or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEON Posted March 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 However it's measured, I think everyone should just do it the same, apart from Azonics no mtb bar ever had any worthwhile upsweep. Now that trials bars have big upsweep it confuses things a bit. I'd choose big upsweep everytime, I like it, but not if it means 10 degrees of backsweep too. There don't seem to be any bars that have the best of both. I miss my Azonics. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 I'd take the 10 degrees backsweep but not the upsweep Every bar company should include total rise. It's like supplying a frame and not telling all the geo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Yeah I think Inspired or Tarty (whoever writes the description) uses total rise, which is not that helpful as everyone else in the industry measures differently. Most manufacturers measure something like what Peter said ^^ Not many people 'in the industry' put accurate weights, accurate geometry, any form of ERD for rims, hub dimensions, realistic durometer readings for tyres, inflated tyre sizes or anything of that nature on their websites, so I don't really think that basing ideas of what is good practice on what MTB companies do is a sound idea. In the trials world people provide even less info, although some companies have updated their sites now to include total rise for their bar heights (although Bonz managed to totally f**k it up somehow - it's not that hard...). Bend-to-bend rise is almost entirely meaningless so we went for something that's a closer approximation to what rise bars actually have (which happens to be how BMX bars are measured, where people actually care about how their bike rides rather than what some wank magazine/online news site tells them is the new fashionable rise to have on their bike). You still need to take into account the upsweep, but that's no different to having to take into account a head tube angle on a frame, or the reach compared to the wheelbase and so on. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamilyBiker Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 atm i´m riding a syntace vro system,thats very good but expensive as hell. i can adjust angle and sweep as i like it to be. someone in the trials world pleaseee copy vro! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEON Posted March 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Not many people 'in the industry' put accurate weights, accurate geometry, any form of ERD for rims, hub dimensions, realistic durometer readings for tyres, inflated tyre sizes or anything of that nature on their websites, so I don't really think that basing ideas of what is good practice on what MTB companies do is a sound idea. In the trials world people provide even less info, although some companies have updated their sites now to include total rise for their bar heights (although Bonz managed to totally f**k it up somehow - it's not that hard...). Bend-to-bend rise is almost entirely meaningless so we went for something that's a closer approximation to what rise bars actually have (which happens to be how BMX bars are measured, where people actually care about how their bike rides rather than what some wank magazine/online news site tells them is the new fashionable rise to have on their bike). You still need to take into account the upsweep, but that's no different to having to take into account a head tube angle on a frame, or the reach compared to the wheelbase and so on. I wanna say you're wrong...but you're not. I'm old school, I go by what was decided 15 odd years ago as the standard, which was misleading, a total height is better yes, but it should have always been like that, but I do 99% of my shopping outside trials shops so their measurements are what I'm used to. A 2" Azonic is much higher than a 2" Easton bar, so every firm is different. On a side note, can anyone make custom bars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamilyBiker Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 you know who can... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Speaking of, is the name 'Chaos' a reference to that certain person's communication style? Nice looking bike by the way, realised I got carried away with my hatred for MTBers and totally neglected to mention it - apologies! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEON Posted March 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Thing is I'm not into heavy bars, and I can't see anyone doing custom Alu ones that will be as good as what big companies do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEON Posted March 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 (edited) Speaking of, is the name 'Chaos' a reference to that certain person's communication style? Nice looking bike by the way, realised I got carried away with my hatred for MTBers and totally neglected to mention it - apologies! Cheers! You're part of a trials shop, riding for a trials company...you're forgiven lol. I like to think of his communication style as unorthodox...keeps you on your toes (and hotmail) Edited March 21, 2013 by LEON 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamilyBiker Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 (edited) you´d have have a t6 heat treating equipment for that,not a thing for a little company edit:as for leons last reply: yeah i too still think the waiting time sucks,but makes the stuff worth more in mind when it arrives. Edited March 21, 2013 by FamilyBiker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaotic3vil Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 (edited) I still don't understand why all this rant towards marino's building time. It's still faster than some small custom frame companies for example Triton, they are taking 6 months for order completion now. If you have a company with 3 or 4 people and they are well placed in the market it's totally understandable that suddenly they will take more time if there's more demand. Marino is getting better by the years. It's true he could get more updated instead of cutting communication for months. I dunno if people actually asked how long will it take to finish a order but if you just track marinos facebook and you'll see he got tons of work. There's no such thing as making it right, you can always make it better from someone perspective even the one's that "make it right" make shit, try to keep their rep up, get better and move on. Edit: Btw, Bike looks awesome! Edited March 21, 2013 by Chaotic3vil 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arw_86 Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 What size rear rotor are you using and what is that adaptor? Reason I ask is I just got s tab welded on my marino. Have a saint to fit and a 185 bb7 rotor fitted. I have a 185r adaptor but it is nowhere near big enough. I've also got clearance issues between rotor and tab, can't fit the adaptor in. Something along the lines of your adaptor looks more like it would work but I thought your rotor was a 203. I'm so confused right now Ps - you own my perfect bike. Enjoy it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEON Posted March 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 (edited) What size rear rotor are you using and what is that adaptor? Reason I ask is I just got s tab welded on my marino. Have a saint to fit and a 185 bb7 rotor fitted. I have a 185r adaptor but it is nowhere near big enough. I've also got clearance issues between rotor and tab, can't fit the adaptor in. Something along the lines of your adaptor looks more like it would work but I thought your rotor was a 203. I'm so confused right now Ps - you own my perfect bike. Enjoy it! Cheers! I bought a clarks adaptor from CRC, this one http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=69496 My rotors are both 203mm. What adaptor are you using? Who welded your tab on? As you can see on the 1st page the 203 rear adaptor is a big one! Edited March 27, 2013 by LEON Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arw_86 Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 All sorted pretty much. I was just being a massive bell and thanks to my dad he figured it out in about 1 second. Had the adaptor on wrong way round. I just saw 'R' with an arrow and assumed the arrow should be pointing to the rear. Anyway. Its on and works ok, feels good on bar but can push through with the cranks when brakes on. There's a slight rub. Think its the pads but its extremely close to one end of the adaptor. Will have a better look tomorrow. Thanks for the help. Oh and JAF welded my tab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oliverwhite Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 I have bike envy. That is so nice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bing Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 All sorted pretty much. I was just being a massive bell and thanks to my dad he figured it out in about 1 second. Had the adaptor on wrong way round. I just saw 'R' with an arrow and assumed the arrow should be pointing to the rear. Anyway. Its on and works ok, feels good on bar but can push through with the cranks when brakes on. There's a slight rub. Think its the pads but its extremely close to one end of the adaptor. Will have a better look tomorrow. Thanks for the help. Oh and JAF welded my tab Might need the pads bedding in again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEON Posted March 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 I have bike envy. That is so nice. Cheers! All sorted pretty much. I was just being a massive bell and thanks to my dad he figured it out in about 1 second. Had the adaptor on wrong way round. I just saw 'R' with an arrow and assumed the arrow should be pointing to the rear. Anyway. Its on and works ok, feels good on bar but can push through with the cranks when brakes on. There's a slight rub. Think its the pads but its extremely close to one end of the adaptor. Will have a better look tomorrow. Thanks for the help. Oh and JAF welded my tab Is the brake new? My front is new and I threw a small glass of water over it & dragged it. It was bedded in properly in less than 2 minutes. The rear wasn't as good though, I had dirt cheap nukeproof pads on it. Massive step down from the standard pads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arw_86 Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 Nah its second hand. I think he said it had good pads on though. I'm gonna mess around with it this morning and hopefully come to some easy conclusion. May try the water thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEON Posted March 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 Nah its second hand. I think he said it had good pads on though. I'm gonna mess around with it this morning and hopefully come to some easy conclusion. May try the water thing Wipe the inside of the caliper behind the pads etc so when your brake does get wet there's no oil & shit for the water to spread. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bing Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 If you need some spare pads, let me know. Have got 2 sets of Nukeproof trail pads, and 2 sets of ashima pads. £5 a set posted 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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