MadManMike Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 Marino, you're clearly a very skilled guy - some lovely frames being produced! Really wish I was as "practical" as that, I struggle with anything remotely like this haha - can't even saw a piece of wood in a straight line Shame I don't need a new frame / can't afford one, would love a nice custom one. Not gonna get involved in the heat treating thing as I literally know nothing about it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamilyBiker Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 (edited) as marino said it in a simple way,it makes it stronger,and especially more durable. josh,noone didnt mention the treatment procedure thats used,its normalization,then tempering.in germany we have the DIN 8580 norm for welded steel constructions,it says that the tensile strength goes down aprox 10% near the haz,with normalization this negative effects are gone. in every welded construction are haz-related weak points. the idea came with the need to treat fork legs with the new alloy,he had to glow them smooth(right term?)to bend them,as a result he and me tried it on a frame. youre a welder,too,you surely know about whats likely to happen if you dont have those holes: "cold" surrounding air,hot(500+C°) air inside the tube,expanding to twice the volume. i´ve seen tubes making "plop" and having a crack over half the lenght after that. no offence,but i thought welders have to know that stuff. you didnt answer my question about the colour isitafox,will it change? edit:parousia is ancient greek for "arrival",well chosen Edited March 17, 2013 by FamilyBiker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isitafox Posted March 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 I understand what that link talks about but they're basing it on steel frames being built for race cars, dragsters and motorcycles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamilyBiker Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 in the sense of industrial production they make no difference between it,its all normed to "welded constructions" as term. seems like it doesnt matter whats the purpose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Nichols Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isitafox Posted March 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 More pics of the finished product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Leech Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 I'm sorry to do this to your thread Dave, but with the amount of rubbish I get put on mine, it's about time they had some back. Hello Josh. please look this link: http://www.netwelding.com/Heat_Treated_4130.htm all BMX frames use Heat treatment, aluminum use heat treatment koxx, monty, DH INTENSE and more.. is more strong, im use CR-MO 4130 doble butted, the welding heat affected part, the treatment all uniformly homogenized. to a certain hardness in HRC. Thanks for viewing my work, I am freer to resume my orders, full custom. Some Bmx companies do go down the route of heat treatment, yes, but not all as Ali has shown. All aluminium frames have to be treated due to there post-fabrication properties and that's a fact (trust me, I've tested it out before). I don't disagree that it has it's advantages, but I feel that it's only an advantage if used for the correct aplication. Yes, drag/funny cars may need them, but have you ever seen a trials rider doing 300+mph with a jet engine on their back? Little bit more force going through their frame work. I have no quarrel with you supplying it as an option, but when you're pushing it as neccessary to people that are close to me socially and then taking over 4 months to produce something that should take a matter of days because of it seems wrong to me. Very well done on all those frames, but isn't it about time you posted some out? as marino said it in a simple way,it makes it stronger,and especially more durable. josh,noone didnt mention the treatment procedure thats used,its normalization,then tempering.in germany we have the DIN 8580 norm for welded steel constructions,it says that the tensile strength goes down aprox 10% near the haz,with normalization this negative effects are gone. in every welded construction are haz-related weak points. the idea came with the need to treat fork legs with the new alloy,he had to glow them smooth(right term?)to bend them,as a result he and me tried it on a frame. youre a welder,too,you surely know about whats likely to happen if you dont have those holes: "cold" surrounding air,hot(500+C°) air inside the tube,expanding to twice the volume. i´ve seen tubes making "plop" and having a crack over half the lenght after that. no offence,but i thought welders have to know that stuff. you didnt answer my question about the colour isitafox,will it change? edit:parousia is ancient greek for "arrival",well chosen Ok, it sounds more than acceptable with the forks if you're having to anneal them before fabricating begins, but keep it with the forks. He's been making cro-mo frames for a few years now and has had very little problems with them un-treated. Fair enough, I've never had this problem with such a small interior volume (in fact, I've never had this problem whilst I've been fabricating). I understand what that link talks about but they're basing it on steel frames being built for race cars, dragsters and motorcycles. This. Also, I think that the quality looks rather poor. The disc tab that has been rather shodily made by hand, the brake mounts that look like they've been chewed out by a beaver and just the welding in general looks pretty highly un-uniformed and rushed. Pretty shocking in my eyes, but probably worth the small amount you pay for it. Sorry again Dave, Josh. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 I think an "Is heat treating necessary?" thread needs to be opened for any further discussion really. I also think i need to get my hands on one of these new-fangled Jaf frames and see how the quality compares to my old Marino. That'll be the decider for me Dave: Looks good man, bet you can't wait! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamilyBiker Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 Fair enough, I've never had this problem with such a small interior volume (in fact, I've never had this problem whilst I've been fabricating). Just to stay off topic for a touch longer, I thought this was fairly standard in all bikes. Or am I thinking of ally frames where the temperature required is different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEON Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 2.025kg = 4.46lbs! I'm pleasantly surprised. My old one was 4.8 and that was more than light enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamilyBiker Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 50g heavier than the cuy! thats another reason for heat treatment,it drops the weight down by 100-200g Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 thats another reason for heat treatment,it drops the weight down by 100-200g So does removing a chainstay but that doesn't mean everyone should do it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamilyBiker Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 i think its opening the trials market for steel frames.if it works,like it does obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Leech Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 i think its opening the trials market for steel frames.if it works,like it does obviously. What? Ever heard of leeson, pashley or curtis? Because Trials has never seen a steel frame that's easily ridable before now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamilyBiker Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 i think its opening the trials market AFTER 2005 for steel frames.if it works,like it does obviously. fixed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Leech Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 I'm not going to argue with you today, didn't need it back then, don't need it now - my veiw on the matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEON Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross McArthur Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Leech Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 I know that this probably isn't relevant, but kindergarden cop has got to be one of the best arnie films ever made. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marinobike Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 Hello to be understood, watch the video, I not only stop, jump on. and not closed, with all my weight is flexible, like a spring, or a car dock, which flexes and returns to your site. Josh please, for closed, I want do the same on your Frame, and see if you do not need the heat treatment. I hope to see a video. Like jumping with his frame. also take an old steel frame which sold for long. but I think it's time to improve quality. the results will be seen in some years. a picture is worth more than my translator. best regards. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross McArthur Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 Someone please edit the Harlem Shake to that... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamilyBiker Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 what the...!!! that mild steel one died hard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny00135 Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 So much hatred on this forum... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isitafox Posted April 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 Frame is en route, decals have been designed by Indiprint all ready to be cut. Just gotta wait for it to land and I can get it painted and built up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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