isitafox Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Well Marino is underway with my replacement frame and all I can say is that if the whole process had taken place like this originally I would have been an extremely happy customer. He confirmed with me last week that he had a few jobs to finish and would be starting my frame this week, last night I received another email to let me know he'd started the frame and then I received a further 2 emails in the night to confirm a measurement (sadly I was asleep when this came) and another with some progress pics of the build. Like I said I wasn't awake to reply to the confirmation regarding chainstay length but he carried on regardless so I assume (pray) that he checked what had been discussed previously and got the measurement from there as the frame is pinned together complete and just needs the welds and gussets finishing. Anyway, here's the pics he sent me so far. Gone for a slightly different rear end this time to get around the tight chainstays! Pieces ready to start Front end Rear end Spanish BB (hooray!) Complete view He said he was gonna finish it today so I've just got my fingers crossed that all the numbers are correct as I'm happy with how it looks, will update as soon as I hear anything! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamilyBiker Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 the onepiece seatstays are damn cool. geo-wise its the same as the current one though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isitafox Posted March 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Hopefully yes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss-Higgy Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 It's looking good the seat stay is ace! Will have your design done soon, that curve has given me an idea too 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny00135 Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Going to look so nice built up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isitafox Posted March 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Had more emails from him today, the latest showing him welding the gussets on the seatstays. If only I could have it left raw, that would be perfect! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisRider Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Why can't you keep it raw? Looks like a nice frame! Welding on a carpet/rug...madness! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike_dummie Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Why can't you keep it raw? Looks like a nice frame! Welding on a carpet/rug...madness! I think it's tiles as you can see the grout And you should request it too be kept raw ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isitafox Posted March 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 He's said it has to be heat treated otherwise it'll crack/snap without a doubt. Don't know how true that is but it's not really worth risking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Heat treating still leaves it raw doesn't it... Just get him to lacquer it afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike_dummie Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 (edited) He obviously hasn't seen this Jaf frame which hasn't been heat treated and never will be! Edited March 16, 2013 by bike_dummie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isitafox Posted March 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 I thought that but Josh Leech explained it to me. "Also, just thought you'd like to know the reason behind your frame not being able to be left raw, the material Marino is using requires an oil quench in the heat treatment process. This will be why he has had to have them sand blasted, as a layer of the oil will be left on the surface of the frame after quenching (If you didn't know, quenching is the cooling of the part after it has been exposed to temperature) and this would make it impossible to paint and would also remover the 'raw look' you were after." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamKidney Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Basically the shot blasting remove said oil deposit, but in turn removes the heat marks left by welding, which will be the "raw" look you're describing I imagine. It will be raw steel, just not with the markings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Ah ok, so yeah raw steel but not raw, welded heat marked raw. Fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamilyBiker Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 (edited) He obviously hasn't seen this no but he tried that too,with 0mm flex as result. dont want to start anything isitafox,really.just commenting. btw those gussets look interesting,should stiffen that up even more Edited March 16, 2013 by FamilyBiker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Is that a BMX frame, rather than one of his trials frames? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamilyBiker Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 (edited) no,just a 358mm cs street trials one,wich is on its way to me now with the cuy.hellohhh,euro bb on a bmx? :wink2: edit:or did you mean the jaf? cant wait to see isitafox´s new frame built up,tyre clearance is massive by the look of it. i´d go for a transparent colour ,like blue,over silver,looks candy... Edited March 16, 2013 by FamilyBiker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isitafox Posted March 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 More pics, just needs brake mounts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Heat treatment is a weird one, sometimes it can make a frame weaker. Federal used to offer a frame as standard, or for a little more heat treated, the heat treated ones had way more warranty returns so they ended up taking away the heat treated option. That doesn't look like a Euro bb in that pic to me, but it's a little tricky to tell. Also that's not a direct comparison to the "test" (not exactly scientific haha) that Jaff did as the frame isn't on a surface. I also very much doubt it had 0mm flex, unless it wasn't with his full weight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich J Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Id question it was his full weight, the angle he is stood at looks a bit hard to balance. Also he is a smaller guy than the Jaf "tester" no offence meant! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Leech Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 (edited) Heat treatment is a weird one, sometimes it can make a frame weaker. Federal used to offer a frame as standard, or for a little more heat treated, the heat treated ones had way more warranty returns so they ended up taking away the heat treated option. That doesn't look like a Euro bb in that pic to me, but it's a little tricky to tell. Also that's not a direct comparison to the "test" (not exactly scientific haha) that Jaff did as the frame isn't on a surface. I also very much doubt it had 0mm flex, unless it wasn't with his full weight? With the heat treatment, the actual structural gains would depend entierly on two things- Tempering temperature - this would dictate the resulting hardness of the material. Filler wire used - I'm going to take a guess from the pictures that he's still using a mild steel filler (usually an ES standard) rather than cro-mo, which sort of negates the need for heat treatment as it is normally only used with larger stressed parts that have been welded fully with cro-mo as the welds become brittle due to the heat transfer. I'm surprised that no one has questioned this sudden need for heat treatment. He's been making cro-mo frames for a very long time now (and very nicely I have to say btw) and has never had a need for it in the past, so what's changed? I remeber seeing that he has possibly made a change from 4130 to 4140, but if this is true, why? There is very little difference between the two in terms of chemistry and mechanical properties, especially in the normalized state. Any'hoo, frame's looking tasty Dave, get some full build pics up when it gets to you . EDIT - another thing (mainly for peter), why is he putting purge holes in the frame when he's not purging? Ali, I can also assure you that the full weight was being taken by the rear triangle. Myself and Cuff had to stand in a pretty specific spot to stop the frame moving under our weights . Edited March 16, 2013 by Rob Leech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 I was talking about Marino not you Josh, I don't doubt that was as heavy as you state Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isitafox Posted March 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Would you say it's worth pushing for him not to treat it then Josh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Leech Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 At the end of the day Dave, there's obviously a reason that he's heat treating them, but from all my reaserch into the matter (wayyy too much time btw ) it really shouldn't be needed. If you can get a specific reason as to why he's doing it then go ahead with it, but I think you'll end up with more problems than if it wasn't treated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marinobike Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 At the end of the day Dave, there's obviously a reason that he's heat treating them, but from all my reaserch into the matter (wayyy too much time btw ) it really shouldn't be needed. If you can get a specific reason as to why he's doing it then go ahead with it, but I think you'll end up with more problems than if it wasn't treated. Hello Josh. please look this link: http://www.netwelding.com/Heat_Treated_4130.htm all BMX frames use Heat treatment, aluminum use heat treatment koxx, monty, DH INTENSE and more.. is more strong, im use CR-MO 4130 doble butted, the welding heat affected part, the treatment all uniformly homogenized. to a certain hardness in HRC. Thanks for viewing my work, I am freer to resume my orders, full custom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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