Views on gay marriage

[Dave Anscombe]

Apologies, anscombes back!

Word

[Blake]

Homosexual activity should be just as supported/encouraged as Heterosexual activity in my opinion. Including marriage.

I also find it extremely irritating how so many people have such a problem with gay people.

During school/when I was younger I was always being picked on being called gay and stuff, which f**ked me off because I had a problem with being called gay because so many people thought it was a bad thing. Which it shouldn't be, it's like laughing at someone for being straight.

However I also find it annoying as hell that because of media/social views whenever I'm joking about insulting my friends the first thing that comes to mind is "you're a big faggot" or "you're gay". I wish there was a world where none of this happened and being gay was just as normal as being straight.

I don't know why, I just do.

Edited February 6, 2013 by DrStix

[Ash-Kennard]

your only gay if you take it, apparently, therefore god loves the givers not the takers.

selfish takers

[J.KYDD]

I don't care, doesn't affect me in any way... But i feel like the church is almost like a 'club' and if they don't want you in there they have every right to chuck you out. So marriages in other places is fine, but thats just a civil partnership right? If you want it in a church, obviously religion must mean something to you, and I dont feel like you can pick and choose bits of religion that suits you.

This

[Matthew62]

To be fair I don't know why anyone would want to be part of an institution that has such a lax attitude towards child rape. Whether you are homo or heterosexual I don't understand why you'd want to be a part of any church, it's a relatively hateful institution.

In terms of marriage/civil partnerships - if you want it, you should be able to have it, no matter who you want to screw (animals excluded).

[Luke Dunstan]

People can do what they want behind closed doors, marriage is also fine...but not in a church.

[Muel]

To be fair I don't know why anyone would want to be part of an institution that has such a lax attitude towards child rape. Whether you are homo or heterosexual I don't understand why you'd want to be a part of any church, it's a relatively hateful institution.

In terms of marriage/civil partnerships - if you want it, you should be able to have it, no matter who you want to screw (animals excluded).

Which church are you referring to? There are plenty of denominations that definitely do not have a lax attitude to child rape.

You say "it's a relatively hateful institution", I assume you mean the Catholic church? If so, couldn't agree more, it's despicable that they're not doing more to police certain members of the cloth. However, hating an entire faith/club/group due to the actions of a few is stupid though. Do you also hate all muslims because of 9/11? How about all scouts because a few scout masters raped the lads in their care? There are advantages to being in any group or the group wouldn't exist.

This issue is political, not religious anyway. I come from a catholic family and I can't name a single person who is against gay marriage, just not in their church as it's against their religion. My Granny (who is 82 and has the strongest faith of anyone I know) told me she'd be proud of me if I got married to another bloke, but it would be a legal marriage, not a religious one. There's a difference between getting married in a registry office (legal) and a church (both legal and in the eyes of god).

[Matthew62]

Which church are you referring to? There are plenty of denominations that definitely do not have a lax attitude to child rape.

You say "it's a relatively hateful institution", I assume you mean the Catholic church? If so, couldn't agree more, it's despicable that they're not doing more to police certain members of the cloth. However, hating an entire faith/club/group due to the actions of a few is stupid though. Do you also hate all muslims because of 9/11? How about all scouts because a few scout masters raped the lads in their care? There are advantages to being in any group or the group wouldn't exist.

This issue is political, not religious anyway. I come from a catholic family and I can't name a single person who is against gay marriage, just not in their church as it's against their religion. My Granny (who is 82 and has the strongest faith of anyone I know) told me she'd be proud of me if I got married to another bloke, but it would be a legal marriage, not a religious one. There's a difference between getting married in a registry office (legal) and a church (both legal and in the eyes of god).

Yeah I'm predominantly referring to the Catholic church. It's true you can't tar the entire church and it's followers due to the actions of a fair few rapist priests....however I personally would have (and do) a fairly serious issue popping along to church every Sunday to proclaim my faith to an organisation that on a whole has done nothing to combat an extremely serious issue. Whilst your local priest may not be accountable as a congregation no one is doing anything to help by blindingly following along the same old teachings.

I've witnessed a whole heap of hypocrisy at the hand of religion and it's been enough over the years to leave me now with the views I have that there is not much good to be gained from religion. I admire 'blind faith' but it is so often used as an excuse or in place of real answers of explanations.

The Muslim/Islamic thing is quite different as 9/11 was done in the name of Islam by the extremists which was unfair on the rest of the followers, whereas the rape of children by priests I hope wasn't done in the name of God? I'm not bias in my dislike of religions - I find them all equally stupid and whilst the reasons for following differ the basic premise remains the same throughout. People are afraid of dying. Religion gives you another chance.... (apparently). Every religion is based around fear. Also I dislike Scouts for lots of reasons, not least their neck-ties!

See I know a good few Catholics and a lot of them are homophobic and think it's wrong in the eyes of God. See there's an issue there.... who's right? The people I know or your family? Whilst I like your families thoughts, technically speaking their religions instructions (which is the foundation of it all and what they're following each time they go to church) are teaching them that homosexuality is wrong. So based on that does that make your family bad Catholics as they are defiant against their teachings and going against their leaders.

Anyway back to marriage as I've said if you want it you should be able to have it. Whilst I don't really see the point of the whole thing (it's basically a mobile phone contract) I'm fairly confused as to why anyone who is homosexual would want to be part of the church and to be married within it?

[eskimo]

What is bizarre to me is that this is a major government issue. It's hardly something that needs to be 'discussed'.

"Being gay is acceptable, so why shouldn't marriage?"

"cause the church doesn't like it"

"well, the church doesn't have to be involved with their marriage and gayness"

"right, that's sorted then, back to shit that matters (Africa)"

[Paperclip]

What is bizarre to me is that this is a major government issue. It's hardly something that needs to be 'discussed'.

"Being gay is acceptable, so why shouldn't marriage?"

"cause the church doesn't like it"

"well, the church doesn't have to be involved with their marriage and gayness"

"right, that's sorted then, back to shit that matters (Africa)"

I agree highly paid people are getting paid for this, I personally feel Marriage is just for show anyway. Most people in England who get "Wed" don't have any religious views so why can't gay people do the same. Again I feel its all for show its not showing your love towards the other person or changing your life in any way It's just walking around with a ring on your finger. (Which most gay's would love anyway right?)

EDIT: The people behind this decision should make it so they can get married but not divorced = LIFE OVER!

Edited February 6, 2013 by Seabasss

[AndrewEH1]

Also I dislike Scouts for lots of reasons, not least their neck-ties!

Well if you ever hurt yourself out riding you won't being seeing me making a triangular bandage out of my neckerchief!

As for the LGBT, or whatever they like to call themselves, let them do what they want. Personally I don't really see the point in marriage, apart from a piss-up at the reception, but if they want to get married rather than enter a civil partnership then how can the government say no?

Edited February 6, 2013 by AndrewEH1

[showurcolours]

I think the vast majority of gay people wanting to be married though don't seek approval in the eyes of God, they simply want to be allowed to use the term married instead of saying "we're in a civil partnership"

I bet there are also a fair amount of gay couples who do want the approval of their Lord, because they are religious and the bible explicitly says that ALL man was created equal (except for black people and gay people apparently, although they outlined the racism some 60 years a go)

I agree though, it's a complete political issue and not a religious one. It's not as if the government are forcing the church to change their scriptures (Although this in the past has be done which shows how little meaning they really carry)

Where is Christopher Hitchens when you need him to slam some sense into people ?!

[JT!]

Wow, I just did some reading into all this. Turns out that homosexuals can get "married" in the guise of a 'civil union' where they receive the same legal rights as a married couple.

However churches can't legally host a civil union... what a f**king mess.

[Muel]

Yeah I'm predominantly referring to the Catholic church. It's true you can't tar the entire church and it's followers due to the actions of a fair few rapist priests....however I personally would have (and do) a fairly serious issue popping along to church every Sunday to proclaim my faith to an organisation that on a whole has done nothing to combat an extremely serious issue. Whilst your local priest may not be accountable as a congregation no one is doing anything to help by blindingly following along the same old teachings.

While I do agree that something should be done, I don't feel very strongly about it. I think it's down to the police to police things really, not the "club". Mind you if a teacher was at it in a school, then the school would be held responsible... It's an interesting debate to say the least. Either way I'm an atheist, but I really do admire the way some Catholics (my Granny mainly) manage to stick so devoutly to their faith whilst being quite open to criticism and change.

I guess it depends on the church you go to. I know some catholic churches/congregations are incredibly strict about these things, whereas others take a more relaxed/progressive/modern view.

The Muslim/Islamic thing is quite different as 9/11 was done in the name of Islam by the extremists which was unfair on the rest of the followers, whereas the rape of children by priests I hope wasn't done in the name of God? I'm not bias in my dislike of religions - I find them all equally stupid and whilst the reasons for following differ the basic premise remains the same throughout. People are afraid of dying. Religion gives you another chance.... (apparently). Every religion is based around fear. Also I dislike Scouts for lots of reasons, not least their neck-ties!

I think in any of these situations, it's not the club/group that's at fault, it's the crazy f**ker who rapes kiddies or blows up buildings because they've interpreted their groups ethics and teachings incorrectly. More should be done to keep an eye on them though really I agree, whether by the church or the police. I always wished I'd been a scout or a cadet of some kind, they're great! Teaching kids survival skills, getting them outside and seeing the world seems like a good idea to me. We were always told "Don't light fires", why not? It keeps you warm, you just need to learn how to control it. (That bit is slightly tongue in cheek, but I really wish I'd been taught these things).

See I know a good few Catholics and a lot of them are homophobic and think it's wrong in the eyes of God. See there's an issue there.... who's right? The people I know or your family? Whilst I like your families thoughts, technically speaking their religions instructions (which is the foundation of it all and what they're following each time they go to church) are teaching them that homosexuality is wrong. So based on that does that make your family bad Catholics as they are defiant against their teachings and going against their leaders.

I didn't mean that they condone it at all, when asked (and only when I ask them for their opinion) my Grandparents have told me straight that they don't approve at all of the fact that I'm living with a girl for the second time but haven't been married to either of them, but unlike most Catholics they always mention that it's not their place to judge my life, and as long as I have a set of morals by which I live my life that mean I aim not to cause harm to anyone, then they're proud of me. One of the most interesting things my Granny pointed out was that all religions basically teach the 10 commandments, as do most governments, schools, and morally decent people. Therefore if you stick to them, then it doesn't matter what form "God" takes, if he exists and you've lived your life well then he'll forgive you for not believing in him. As she said, "All the rest is part of being in the club, not getting into heaven".

Anyway back to marriage as I've said if you want it you should be able to have it. Whilst I don't really see the point of the whole thing (it's basically a mobile phone contract) I'm fairly confused as to why anyone who is homosexual would want to be part of the church and to be married within it?

This is where the real problems arise, what if you were born, baptised, raised and still remain a devout Catholic, but fancy men? You get chucked out of the congregation if they find out, which is a very hard thing to handle. To a lot of people, their religion is at least as important as their sexuality, so choosing between them is very difficult.

[Dave Anscombe]

religion-Is here to control people !Nuff said

[Muel]

religion-Is here to control people !Nuff said

Horse shit. Nuff said.

[showurcolours]

religion-Is here to control people !Nuff said

Agreed. It's basically a moral rule book for people who are too stupid enough to develop their own consciousness and feelings so they adopt those of others and never question them.

Religion may as well be a sin and here's why. Most of the teachings basically say (and this is true for all/most religions):

1. Everyone is created equal EXCEPT black people/gays/women (delete as appropriate, religion specific)

2. Love your God unconditionally, but at the same time FEAR HIM!!!

3. You were given free choice, but here's a shit load of meaningless rules anyway and all of them are sins which mean you won't receive atonement at death.

Rant over

[Dave Anscombe]

Horse shit. Nuff said.

Religion is fear based- fear is used to control people -Sooooo easy to see!

But if ive hurt your religious beliefs Im sorry sam it was not my intention

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

Religion is fear based- fear is used to control people -Sooooo easy to see!

That may the case in parts of America and I guess many strong Islamic countries but in the UK, today, that's far from relevant. Maybe in 1400 it was the case but today religion (rightfully) means f**k all to 99% of young people (thank Christ()).

[Muel]

Religion is fear based- fear is used to control people -Sooooo easy to see!

But if ive hurt your religious beliefs Im sorry sam it was not my intention

Nope, I'm a strong atheist, I just think that you're talking bollocks.

Not sure about some religions, but in the case of Christianity and Islam (I think), they teach followers to be compassionate and to lead a good life. Some teachers (vicars, bishops, all that shit) use fear, but the religions themselves do not.

I do believe in a simple form of Karma though, in that if you treat your friends and family well, when you need them, they'll help you. (Not in the sense of some unseen presence controlling my shit).

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

Not sure about some religions, but in the case of Christianity and Islam (I think), they teach followers to be compassionate and to lead a good life. Some teachers (vicars, bishops, all that shit) use fear, but the religions themselves do not.

There's always the undertone of threat and fear though (to those who believe, hallelujah). They teach people to be compassionate and lead a good life OR ELSE if you know what I mean. I would have said even more so with Islam and it's Sharia laws- why else would people be quite content to murder their own children because the child looked at someone of the opposite sex or got themselves raped or whatever? That's pure fear for their own safety in the eyes of Alladin .

[Muel]

Not really, you can go through life committing a few sins here and there but if you repent them and feel sorry for what you've done then you'll be forgiven.

Just based on my knowledge of general Christian teaching (I went to a school that didn't stick to one denomination and just taught us general Christianity stuff).

If you live a life of sin, I.E: causing harm to people a lot and not caring about it, or if it was for personal gain, then you'll go to hell. If your sins were justifiable or just low in numbers and you regretted it afterwards, then you won't.

They teach that although sins are not allowed, all people sin from time to time, and that any person can be saved if they repent their sins and in some cases, try to make up for them.

This is why confession exists, so that people can get advice from the vicar anonymously on how to better themselves.

So basically, unless you're a total scumbag, there's nothing to be scared of.

[Dave Anscombe]

i like pies

Edited February 7, 2013 by Dave Anscombe

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

So basically, unless you're a total scumbag, there's nothing to be scared of.

My (little) understanding of the catholic system is that it doesn't matter how much of a scumbag you are, so long as you repent before you die (and don't commit suicide) it's all gravy for you.

[Muel]

My (little) understanding of the catholic system is that it doesn't matter how much of a scumbag you are, so long as you repent before you die (and don't commit suicide) it's all gravy for you.

Pretty much, unless you do some really awful stuff like murder or rape. If you nick off with your brother's wife though, as long as he forgives you then you can consider yourself "repented". I think it's more to do with making an effort to make up for what you've done rather than just say you're sorry.

It's one of the only things I admire about Catholics over some other denominations, remorse isn't enough alone, you need to try to fix what you've done as well.

That's not to say you'll go to hell if you can't fix your sins, if you make the effort but the person you've wronged won't forgive you, then there's not much more you can do.

Edited February 7, 2013 by Muel