Quality of life in UK

[forteh]

The problem is that (without wanting to be too condescending) so many people do stupid, pointless degrees for the sake of it. How many people have degrees in psychology, sociology, geography, art etc. etc. with absolutely no intention of ever using what is basically a waste of space degree unless you plan to be a teacher in the subject or continue in academia? I would hazard a guess that if 80% of all sociology graduates are in mundane jobs only 10% of engineering graduates (say with a 2:2 or better) will be in a crappy job.

Agreed 100%, my degree is a crappy one (non honours because I was too lazy to stay on any more, got a merit grade though so I guess that's equivalent to a low 2:1?) and my initial job requirement was only for an hnc, however ability and knowledge I've gained have put me in good stead. My sister did economics and politics at durham, just missed out on a first but went on to teach economics at repton school (Roald Dahl was a pupil there) so hasn't wasted her degree subject (one I would class as a semi pointless one).

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

[Tom Booth]

I want no replies based to or about this. TF in actual good debate shocker!!!!

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

My point on the degree was not so much the education side of it, more the employer side. I think society dictates you must have a degree to succeed, be it astrophysics or hair and beauty. Employers look favourably on degree holders, yet some of the most practical people I know and have worked with have all been less of an academic and more of a do-er.

I think that may start to change. With the £9k fees it wouldn't surprise me if a lot more apprenticeships and in-job training schemes start popping up in many industries that until recently have required a good degree. Equally it appears that universities are changing how and what they teach to try and make things more applicable to the real world and offer more to students than just the ability to learn past exam papers.

[Tom Booth]

Hopefully, it would be nice to have a practical and industrious Great Britain!

[Luke Rainbird]

Correct. This is exactly how the world works nowadays, you don't really stand a chance of getting a job anywhere unless you know someone who works there.

Bullshit, but it certainly helps. Still, if you don't know someone who works where you'd like to, it's not that hard to change that - meet people!

"Everyone has a degree" type comment

I think society dictates you must have a degree to succeed, be it astrophysics or hair and beauty. Employers look favourably on degree holders, yet some of the most practical people I know and have worked with have all been less of an academic and more of a do-er.

The sad fact of the matter at the moment is that since bullshit degrees came along, it has become considerably easier to get a degree. No two ways about that. The trouble is, however, that now we're in that situation it's no longer the case that a degree makes you stand out, but NOT having a degree can make things harder.

Around 75% of job vacancies out there at present demand a degree from their applicants. We're not talking surgeons, dentists etc here, but everything from menial supervisor-type positions upwards. THIS is when knowing people in a company can help if you don't have the formal qualifications, but otherwise by not having a degree you're really limiting your options.

It's a catch 22, as employers need to realise that many degrees are as good as worthless but are reluctant to do so when they can insist on this criteria. For that same reason, unis are reluctant to pull the plug on such programmes, and the cycle continues

Edit; More posts since mine I started typing:

I think that may start to change. With the £9k fees it wouldn't surprise me if a lot more apprenticeships and in-job training schemes start popping up in many industries that until recently have required a good degree. Equally it appears that universities are changing how and what they teach to try and make things more applicable to the real world and offer more to students than just the ability to learn past exam papers.

Fortunately this is making people rethink uni and consider other options like apprenticeships. However, getting to the raw figures, although the price of uni is now higher, the actual cost is now lower (still pay back 9% of what you earn over the threshold now, but that's increased from £15k to £21k) so it's actually easier to afford uni now than under the previous scheme.

Things are starting to get shifted around though, as because on face value tuition will cost people more, they're being a little more selective and the crap courses are starting to suffer. Let's just hope that continues and they get weeded out sooner rather than later!

[Max Quinn]

Jeeesus some of you need to look on the bright side of life. If you're stuck in this mindset of 'The economy is shit, life is shit, I won't get a good job', then sure enough, life probably will be shit and you probably won't get a good job.

Opportunities do occasionally fall into your lap, but they have a habit of doing so much more often when you're trying to make stuff happen for yourself.

And plus one on the networking thing. 'You need to know people' is an easy excuse, but why don't you get to know people?

The sad fact of the matter at the moment is that since bullshit degrees came along, it has become considerably easier to get a degree. No two ways about that. The trouble is, however, that now we're in that situation it's no longer the case that a degree makes you stand out, but NOT having a degree can make things harder.

Around 75% of job vacancies out there at present demand a degree from their applicants. We're not talking surgeons, dentists etc here, but everything from menial supervisor-type positions upwards. THIS is when knowing people in a company can help if you don't have the formal qualifications, but otherwise by not having a degree you're really limiting your options.

It's a catch 22, as employers need to realise that many degrees are as good as worthless but are reluctant to do so when they can insist on this criteria. For that same reason, unis are reluctant to pull the plug on such programmes, and the cycle continues

For me the problem is that degrees have just become a right of passage of the middle class. You grow up through secondary school just knowing 'I'm going to go to uni after this', just because it's what people do. People (me included don't get me wrong) end up going to uni more just for the experience and to not miss out rather then anything to do with education and it's just like this 3 year long middle class summer camp. Upping the fees is a good thing if you ask me, but only as long as they use that to provide more grants for estate kids an stuff that show promise.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Max Quinn

[forteh]

My point on the degree was not so much the education side of it, more the employer side. I think society dictates you must have a degree to succeed, be it astrophysics or hair and beauty. Employers look favourably on degree holders, yet some of the most practical people I know and have worked with have all been less of an academic and more of a do-er.

In my opinion, a degree doesn't just show the persons ability to perform in a certain field, but also the ability to problem solve, think independantly and push boundaries or what is possible (thinking perhaps in more of an engineering environment here perhaps). On the flip side you can have the drive and ability to do all of those things without the piece of paper saying that you can but employers will look for the degree as a sign of competence however misfounded that might be.

In the water treatment sector (sewage in particular) many of the water authourities have cut out the old dead wood (the people who know how water treatment works) and replaced them with new blood graduate engineers. A good proportion of them do not have a clue what they are doing and have zero common sense; they are too keen to quote literature that they have read and learnt verbatim without any physical experience and will refuse to accept the advice of someone with 50 years experience in the particular field.

[clerictgm]

Anyone suggesting the UK doesn't have a higher quality of life than Russia should really try going to Russia. No offence to russians, but its pretty grim - as grim as you see on those russian videos of people jumping off blocks of flats. Driving along, there's not just the odd disintegrating concrete factory with smashed up windows, pretty much all of them are (we drove along the bottom of russia, didnt visit moscow or anything where I suspect it might be better).

Buildings like this - everywhere, with no new buildings to be seen.

Old-Soviet-Factory.jpg

The roads are basically screwed (it made me think that road tax is actually well worth it - need to remind myself that), the police are corrupt, you get stopped & checked in and out of every major town - that sucks - could you even begin to imagine what that would be like if we had that system over here?

The people there seem sad/angry and it wasn't until we left that we realised how much of a drain on your sanity just being there was. That was my experience of russia for about 5 days.

So I do have sympathy, and the quality of life - buildings, jobs, security, government etc is much better here.

Isn't it AWESOME? I freaking love places like that, Places with NO people. Oh how I want to go to Prypyat an USSR dead city. This is my another passions besides of riding. We explore locations like that (some of them are abandoned). Packs of wild dogs, sharp knife in sheath, absolutely no one besides you, rust, ruins and atmosphere of loneliness and emptiness. This is awesome. To explore, to climb, to sit on the rooftop of some almost destroyed postapocalyptic-like building and talk with a friend in the rays of the setting sun.

Or if place not abandoned - it usually protected. So sometimes, we like some saboteurs from movie sneaking through the guards and hiding in shadows anxiously waiting until guards leave and in fear of being spotted when runaway is pretty hard.

[Tom Booth]

In the water treatment sector (sewage in particular) many of the water authourities have cut out the old dead wood (the people who know how water treatment works) and replaced them with new blood graduate engineers. A good proportion of them do not have a clue what they are doing and have zero common sense; they are too keen to quote literature that they have read and learnt verbatim without any physical experience and will refuse to accept the advice of someone with 50 years experience in the particular field.

That's the problem in my eyes, there isn't much hands on, everything's orchestrated perfectly.

My uncle used to repair auto bodies in he late 60/70s and he was bloody good at it. Sheet metal, spraying, refinishing, he was the champ.

To keep his interests up and hand in he delivers for my dad to various body-shops around our area. He recently went to a body shop were a lad works who's MIPA trained and certified (I know it's not quite a degree but stick with it). The lad had just done a full front end respray on a car and it looked horrific. Silicone fish eyes all over the shant. The lad had no idea what it was, why it had done it, what ad done it nor what to do with it. My uncle offered advice, he shunned it thinking he knew best and subsequently my dad lost quite a good customer because this berk had no real experience in the real word, spraying non pre-prepped parts or outside of a clinically clean spray shop. I know he was taught how to paint and prep during his course, he's a very good painter. But he was painting/priming pre-prepped problem free items. Stick him in the real world with airborne silicones and solvent pop and he's a liability.

[dann2707]

Personally I think you're drugged up to your eye balls and pretty much reciting this

[Dave Anscombe]

I cant really tell whether thats RC or not

tyres are a huge giveaway

[FamilyBiker]

the health state of that gate is frightening me to walk through,but the photo is awesome in its way.

Edited February 5, 2013 by FamilyBiker

[shercofray]

Not going to uni was the best desision I ever made. I am now in a well paying roll training as an accountant - which has then changed my whole outlook on life and aspire to be a business owner in the near future. Where as if I had gone to uni I would be studying an engineering degree at a below average uni with little chance of gaining employment in a well paying roll when I graduate. Hopefully degrees will become less common and will once again be seen for the people at the top of the game to have.

[williams]

I sort of don't want to jump into this argument, but I sort of have to.

Even though I'm not a adult and don't see everything with "adult eyes" I still think that he have a point. Anyway, I've been in a few countries recently, and I've noticed a bit of what clerictgm is saying, if you for a example compare Sweden to England (I live in Sweden), I would say that the majority of people in Sweden seems happier than the people England. I can't give you a valid ansver why, but yeah they seem happier.

When I first got to England (I mean first visit ever) I got really dissapointed in how everything looks, England look really boring compared to Sweden (No offence haha). The build quality is better here in Sweden than it is in England. If you then compare it to the shit hole Russia, I can deffo see where he's coming from. I mean just look at this video:

I lived with a guy from Russia for 3 weeks, and the shit that clerictgm tells you is true...

I would like to point out that even though it may seem like I totally nob England, I deffo don't! In fact I like England way more than Sweden, I can't say why but I just do.

Just calm down a bit and give the guy a break...

[Tom Booth]

The build quality is better here in Sweden than it is in England. ...

You don't own anything from ikea, do you? Regardless of age, your points as valid as anyone's .

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

I think in general the Brits aren't overly extrovert so I can understand why we may appear less 'happy' from the outside and why our cities looks more boring. We also tend to play by the rules more making us generally more 'serious'.

[tryallmaster]

As for free time. If you want a girl, a car, a house and friends, forget riding. You'd do it on occasion. But it all depends on what girl you have, if you want stuff to stay clean, if you want to keep your house and car value up etc.

I agree with the rest but not this.. It's all about compromise.

[williams]

You don't own anything from ikea, do you? Regardless of age, your points as valid as anyone's .

I don't

But my points aren't as trustworthy because of my age

[Max Quinn]

Even though I'm not a adult and don't see everything with "adult eyes" I still think that he have a point. Anyway, I've been in a few countries recently, and I've noticed a bit of what clerictgm is saying, if you for a example compare Sweden to England (I live in Sweden), I would say that the majority of people in Sweden seems happier than the people England. I can't give you a valid ansver why, but yeah they seem happier.

Yer I think MonkeySeeMonkeyDoo kinda nailed this one. We're not overtly jovial people who shout about it a lot and are really up beat and smiley (the Americans are a key example of this) but that doesn't necesseraly mean we aren't happy. Even our comedy for example is dark and self depreciating, it's just all part of the English way. I can understand why that might come off as us not being happy though.

Seeing sights of the world for example, I'd be with Americans who'd say 'are you not impressed?' because I wasn't hollering, whooping and crying, but that doesn't mean I'm not appreciating it.

That said, people in public do need to crack a smile more often, people look at me like a madman if I laugh at something while I'm walking down the street.

[isitafox]

I suppose despite all the moaning I do about how crappy life tends to be I'm really lucky. I jumped straight into a £36k a year job which is safe as houses and if it wasn't for my own stupidity landing myself in debt I would be pretty much set. Of my wages after paying rent and bills and stuff without the credit card and loan payments I'd have around £1000 a month to cover shopping and general spends which is quite a considerable amount. This is a job which requires no qualifications to get into (you do have to pass a few tests to land an interview to see if you're suitable though) and has obscene promotional prospects for those willing to work for it.

The only problem is the fact to get into it you need a foot in the door which luckily I had in my cousin, without him putting a word in I doubt I'd have even made it to the assessment.

I'm also lucky in where I live in the country, it's a relatively rural location but has very easy links to places like Manchester and Sheffield and some of the best countryside there is over here though it doesn't take half an hour to land yourself in a dirty, squalid, crime and poverty infested area.

Yer I think MonkeySeeMonkeyDoo kinda nailed this one. We're not overtly jovial people who shout about it a lot and are really up beat and smiley (the Americans are a key example of this) but that doesn't necesseraly mean we aren't happy. Even our comedy for example is dark and self depreciating, it's just all part of the English way. I can understand why that might come off as us not being happy though.

Seeing sights of the world for example, I'd be with Americans who'd say 'are you not impressed?' because I wasn't hollering, whooping and crying, but that doesn't mean I'm not appreciating it.

That said, people in public do need to crack a smile more often, people look at me like a madman if I laugh at something while I'm walking down the street.

Also this about sums me up perfectly, the amount of times my wife goes on at me for being miserable all the time because I don't smile. My answer is just because I've not got a massive grin on my face 99% of my life doesn't mean I'm not happy.

[Mark W]

Hopefully, it would be nice to have a practical and industrious Great Britain!

When you need someone to market and sell your practical items, products or services though, you're going to need some of those artfags to make your generic handcrafted product look more enticing for their hard-earned money than the next generic handcrafted product Clearly some degrees are useless shit, but at the same time it's probably worth bearing in mind that a lot of seemingly useless degrees can have a pretty big impact on the way that the world operates.

I sort of assumed that as I was giving my uni £3k a year in fees my course wouldn't be absolute shit, but unfortunately it was. I taught myself more outside of uni than I learnt in it, although some of the in-uni stuff helped open my eyes to some other things. Regardless, had I not done that course I wouldn't have had the opportunities to further my "career" in London that then in turn led to me living in a few places, working for a few other people and then ultimately ending up where I am now.

That was all pretty much self-motivated and fuelled, but the key thing here is that the opportunity to go to uni is what opened those doors for me. I grew up in a shit farming community with virtually no job prospects. The only jobs there farming related, tourism/service industry related or 'Working for the Council' whether that be in IT, PR, general admin shit, or as a council worker. None of those particularly appealed to me, and without the neatly packaged opportunity to go and follow what I wanted to do I would've been pretty f**ked. Going back there at Christmas time and meeting my old... well, I would say friends but they were all dicks, and seeing how many of them have just wasted away not doing anything with their lives because they had no route out of the Llandrindod bubble makes me value my degree more. Yes, I'm in a significant amount of debt (around £30k I believe, although the SLC are pretty relaxed about giving me a total), but it's not like I've got bailiffs banging down my door, having to shuffle around credit cards and all that sort of thing - I pay a small amount every month, but as that's gone before the money's even in my account it doesn't really feel like 'actual' debt. Compared to the opportunities I've had, and hopefully will get through having a degree now, it seems like a relatively small price to pay even if my degree would theoretically be classed as worthless. A degree isn't just a qualification at the end of the day.

That's not to say that all degrees are totally worthwhile and everyone should do one because clearly that isn't the case, but it is worth bearing in mind they can be a means to an end even if that end isn't what the uni prospectus would have you believe it is.

[Pashley26]

I don't think GB had any degree clad arty faggots when it was at its international height of industrial quality and exportation. In fact, I think they used to ship them to France?

#dailymailpisstake.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Pashley26

[Tom Booth]

When you need someone to market and sell your practical items, products or services though, you're going to need some of those artfags to make your generic handcrafted product look more enticing for their hard-earned money than the next generic handcrafted product Clearly some degrees are useless shit, but at the same time it's probably worth bearing in mind that a lot of seemingly useless degrees can have a pretty big impact on the way that the world operates. .

No disputing, I understand there still needs to be a degree of art fag, hell, I'd even go as far as to say the people I knew in the industry were incredibly good at it.

[eskimo]

While it may have sounded that i made England out to be the worst place ever, in fact i was only replying to help the Russia guy understand England better, since everyone was so concerned with giving him some shit. Which in turned this topic back on track, go me.

Them photos of Russia are awesome from where i'm sat. I'd love to visit there without being mugged, stabbed or interrogated by the police obviously.

Overall I think Nick's got quite a low view of the UK when it's not that bad.

Yes and no, i just came across that way. I'm just not content with having to lie about things to get me a reasonable job, having to deal with people who don't care that they scratch each others cars parking, or stereotype one another every single day. While stereotyping is something we all suffer from (it's a human natural defense), most people don't make the effort from time to time to just say hello in towns or villages. In cities there are too many people which is understandable, so eye contact/ acknowledgement would be nice more often than not.

So I do have sympathy, and the quality of life - buildings, jobs, security, government etc is much better here.

It's pretty cool you've experienced it, and it's a shame most of us won't because of my point above.

I now live in Edinburgh and find the majority of people do smile in the street. And I mean that honestly, it is the majority.

You say Edinburgh is smiley, maybe you should start smiling back where they look at you??

Qualifications not meaning much..... can't really let that slip as it's rubbish. I agree they are not everything and they shouldn't be used as a complete evaluation of a persons ability but they do mean something. For example my career and the various companies I've worked for (including freelancing off my own back) have all required me to have done a degree. Ironically I've always worked as a graphic designer when my degree is in product design but never the less it has always been a requirement. I've fought for every job I've got and I've won them through a lot of early preparation, being prepared at interviews, being good at what I do and by quite basically being better than all the other applicants. I've not got anything based on who I know and I apply for jobs where there are often over 500 applicants. Hard work and an enquiring mind is all I've ever used. I do think that my degree isn't entirely relevant to my jobs (as much of my graphic ability has been self-taught) but it's not useless.

Okay that was probably bullshit to an extent. It's just i feel when someone has "qualifications" they're suddenly put above people who haven't, yet if it doesn't apply to the role work & life experience mean much more. But i guess it depends on where you're applying and if the interviewer is a moron and doesn't actually know 'what's/ who's best.'

The free time one was the one that really got me as without any shadow of a doubt that is utter nonsense. I have a girl, a good roof over my head, friends I see regularly and I still get out and ride multiple times a week - all on top of a full time job, sometimes freelance work and a 45 minute commute either side of work. If you sleep for 8 hours a night there is plenty of time to get things done, as I said originally it's all about your outlook. I ride every weekend and will always dedicate a whole day at least to it leaving the other to spend with the girl which can also include spending time with friends (quite happily the friends can fit in to riding and spending time with the girl). I get home from work at 6.30 so I can still have dinner with the lady friend, go for a night ride and be back at a decent hour to chill out before work the next day. There's not tonnes of free time, but it's there if you want it.

For you it works, but for me i have stuff that needs to be done which eats into the free time, i just see it differently.

Can't comment on work politics as I never enter in to it. I've always got on with work staff but i'm not interesting in entertaining peoples drama and nonsense.

The last point about people needing to spend their wages just to get to work.... yeah that's kinda how it works. Unless you live within walking distance or are prepared to ride what you goin'a do? That's how it is and it is the case for every single person.

Work politics where i've worked isn't optional, and it isn't for allot of people. It's also not just 'drama' or 'nonsense' either. It's seems to be you've been lucky.

I guess your wages are good enough where you don't have to acknowledge that i said a day's wages.

Well said. The house situation is exactly how it should be though; why should the banks lend you their money when it will be hard to ascertain how much of a risk you are to them? If they have some of your money in an asset they will have first charge of, they should have the right to be able to re-coup all of their money as there will always be market fluctuations.

Their money??

Basically to re-iterate what many people have said, life is what you make it; work hard and you will reap the rewards.

And this is what annoys me. "Work hard and it'll pay off", not always. It ends up being stressful and not worthwhile. While i'm young, my Dad worked his ass off his whole life (while i think he's crazy), and i'm not even sure he knows if it's been worth it yet, but he's been in that cycle and there ain't no stopping him i guess.

German stuffs

It sounds you feel like i do, and i bet there's people in your country who would also say "you're talking shit" to yourself.

I don't think it's a case of educating yourself out of the position. The opportunity also needs to be there.

I don't think the people who had 'the opportunity' realise how lucky they were. I know some people here have recognised that they were, which is good. But trying to get that opportunity takes time to find, and allot of BS in the middle which is what i seem to still be doing, despite knowing i had some yet really they weren't. It's also safe to say everyone here probably has/ did work hard to get where they are (going).