Quality of life in UK

[Tom Booth]

By the way, Internet says that avg salary is 26500GBP/year in GB

The Internet also says lady gaga has a dick, don't take it to the word thou. In that 26500gbp you've got millions of 16-24 probably more people on the minimum wage, just breaking the 12000gbp barrier. You've then got the folks in canary wharf on 120,000gbp and there plus bonuses. I know the figures suggest that's the average, but I doubt many people in this country of our age are earning much more then 20k. At the minute the whole countries in the shit, and there seems no pattern to it. Necessities such as food, clothing, transport are all tits up yet luxuries seem to be going strong. Our government is cutting funding to the projects and schemes that could bump start our economy again. I wouldn't say the UK is a particularly shit place to live, the opportunities are there if your willing and able. There is help out there for first time buyers and business opportunists, just depends how hard your willing to try.

[Luke Dunstan]

Isn't Russia just full of Stray dogs, dancing bears and hairy women?

[Tom Booth]

3 of the same?

[Luke Dunstan]

My eyes have been opened.

[shercofray]

In that 26500gbp you've got millions of 16-24 probably more people on the minimum wage, just breaking the 12000gbp barrier. You've then got the folks in canary wharf on 120,000gbp and there plus bonuses. I know the figures suggest that's the average, but I doubt many people in this country of our age are earning much more then I wouldn't say the UK is a particularly shit place to live, the opportunities are there if your willing and able. There is help out there for first time buyers and business opportunists, just depends how hard your willing to try.

That's because they have worked to get there. Too many people think money will fall into their lap without having to do anything for it. If you want to earn more; go and educate yourself how too. The majority of people are to lazy to do this, and are just waiting for 'the economy to fix itself'. But they don't understand how this will happen; this is when people start complaining as they think it is a simple task.

[eskimo]

Architecture, cleanliness, people. About people: they look happy, smiles often. Facial expression can tell alot about how they feel. And when I back in Russia.. my f****g god. The contrast was so bright. People faces are angry, unhappy, hopeless.

So. How difficult it is to buy good apartments/house(how many years of saving up or how big is interest on loans) in UK and live good. To live(have some free time to ride and other hobbies and go out with girlfriend/wife), not to exist(work-sleep). And what about people? They are really so friendly as they look?

I'm back to post so i'll say my stuff.

England has allot of idiots. Idiots for many reasons, self-centered/ arrogant, inability to think before doing, lazy, spoilt etc. The list is endless.

I rarely walk down the street, any street and see people smiling. Even in Bristol my second nearest city which is my favourite of England which is nicer than the others even, and i still don't see many happy faces. These days making eye contact with someone is rare. Old people think you want to mug them, smaller people are paranoid from starting a fight, chavs think it's an invite for confrontation, females immediately thinking of their vagina, and there's more.

When it comes to work, qualifications don't mean much. If you have a provable knowledge of something you can talk some bullshit and get the job, but if you're up against someone who is a friend of someone in the company, forget about it.

Cars. A black hole of money, they are a necessity if you don't live in the city for most people not lucky enough to get working hours/ location that suit public transport. I just spent 25% of my original buying cost on it so i can have it 'trouble free' for a 18 months maybe. The cost is 20% more than i got in a month total.

Buying a house? I'm not entirely clued up cause i still live with my parents, which isn't out of choice either. But i know a couple who get minimum wage will have to save real hard for years to secure a deposit before they even start trying to even buy it. When will they finish paying for it? I'd say a minimum of 20 years, allot more if they have kids.

As for free time. If you want a girl, a car, a house and friends, forget riding. You'd do it on occasion. But it all depends on what girl you have, if you want stuff to stay clean, if you want to keep your house and car value up etc.

Most work places people are tolerable, but there's always politics that makes can be stressful, and if you're unlucky you can get a job where racism, bullying, violence etc is acceptable.

The bottom line is, the country is full of assholes who don't care about you, the ones who do get stressed/ depressed etc, or decide it's easier to be the majority and don't give a shit about others. Most people realise the country is just this from a young age. They just deal with it, focus on what life can offer such as riding, love or other hobbies/ sports and just forget what everyone else doing. Which brings me back to my initial point people who don't make eye contact, they're just busy with their own lives and couldn't care less about everything around them.

[edit]

I should add, many people spend a whole day's wages just to get them to work for the week.

Edited February 5, 2013 by eskimo

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

go and educate yourself how too.

The majority of people are to lazy to do this

allot

allot

*Sigh*.

Don't come to Britain it's full of f**king grammar Nazis.

Edit: But actually reading Nick's post that's quite a depressing view of life. It depends who you are, how much attention you paid at school and how hard you're willing to work. England has a lot of idiots? Sure but so does every other country in the world. The lazy buggers who play the system and sponge off the government are annoying but they don't affect me and I don't worry about them. Improving means testing and getting people back in work won't lower taxes so what does it matter?

Buying a house- if a couple are on minimum wage and struggling to make ends meet then they either need to accept that it's unreasonable to be able to buy a £250k house ever, try and get a better paid job or look for support from the government through the system that is there to help them. My wife and I both have pretty good wages but still don't have masses of disposable income after paying income tax, a good sized mortgage, council tax, national insurance etc. but we will still take over 15 years to pay off the mortgage even with regular overpayments. We both worked hard both academically and professionally to get there though and I'd do it all again if I had to.

Overall I think Nick's got quite a low view of the UK when it's not that bad. It just depends where you live I guess. Move somewhere reasonably nice and people will make eye contact, say hello and be friendly guaranteed.

[shercofray]

*Sigh*. Don't come to Britain it's full of f**king grammar Nazis.

Guessing that's all you were looking for whilst reading both posts. Great input

[Luke Rainbird]

<snip>

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

Guessing that's all you were looking for whilst reading both posts. Great input

[tomturd]

Anyone suggesting the UK doesn't have a higher quality of life than Russia should really try going to Russia. No offence to russians, but its pretty grim - as grim as you see on those russian videos of people jumping off blocks of flats. Driving along, there's not just the odd disintegrating concrete factory with smashed up windows, pretty much all of them are (we drove along the bottom of russia, didnt visit moscow or anything where I suspect it might be better).

Buildings like this - everywhere, with no new buildings to be seen.

The roads are basically screwed (it made me think that road tax is actually well worth it - need to remind myself that), the police are corrupt, you get stopped & checked in and out of every major town - that sucks - could you even begin to imagine what that would be like if we had that system over here?

The people there seem sad/angry and it wasn't until we left that we realised how much of a drain on your sanity just being there was. That was my experience of russia for about 5 days.

So I do have sympathy, and the quality of life - buildings, jobs, security, government etc is much better here.

[Matthew62]

I'm back to post so i'll say my stuff.

England has allot of idiots. Idiots for many reasons, self-centered/ arrogant, inability to think before doing, lazy, spoilt etc. The list is endless.

I rarely walk down the street, any street and see people smiling. Even in Bristol my second nearest city which is my favourite of England which is nicer than the others even, and i still don't see many happy faces. These days making eye contact with someone is rare. Old people think you want to mug them, smaller people are paranoid from starting a fight, chavs think it's an invite for confrontation, females immediately thinking of their vagina, and there's more.

When it comes to work, qualifications don't mean much. If you have a provable knowledge of something you can talk some bullshit and get the job, but if you're up against someone who is a friend of someone in the company, forget about it.

Cars. A black hole of money, they are a necessity if you don't live in the city for most people not lucky enough to get working hours/ location that suit public transport. I just spent 25% of my original buying cost on it so i can have it 'trouble free' for a 18 months maybe. The cost is 20% more than i got in a month total.

Buying a house? I'm not entirely clued up cause i still live with my parents, which isn't out of choice either. But i know a couple who get minimum wage will have to save real hard for years to secure a deposit before they even start trying to even buy it. When will they finish paying for it? I'd say a minimum of 20 years, allot more if they have kids.

As for free time. If you want a girl, a car, a house and friends, forget riding. You'd do it on occasion. But it all depends on what girl you have, if you want stuff to stay clean, if you want to keep your house and car value up etc.

Most work places people are tolerable, but there's always politics that makes can be stressful, and if you're unlucky you can get a job where racism, bullying, violence etc is acceptable.

The bottom line is, the country is full of assholes who don't care about you, the ones who do get stressed/ depressed etc, or decide it's easier to be the majority and don't give a shit about others. Most people realise the country is just this from a young age. They just deal with it, focus on what life can offer such as riding, love or other hobbies/ sports and just forget what everyone else doing. Which brings me back to my initial point people who don't make eye contact, they're just busy with their own lives and couldn't care less about everything around them.

[edit]

I should add, many people spend a whole day's wages just to get them to work for the week.

I'm sorry but there is a hell of a lot of bullshit in that comment.

The UK (as opposed to the country of which I presume you're referring to England) isn't a bed of roses but there's plenty to be had. I genuinely believe the majority of it depends on your outlook and aspirations (and I should clarify by aspirations I don't mean entirely financially based).

I'd consider myself one of the most easily annoyed person I've ever encountered. People in general can piss me off quite easily and by all accounts it tends to come across that it's my entire disposition however on the whole I think life is good.

In reference specifically to your comments... the first comment about a lot of idiots. I'm in 100% agreement with that, there is many.

People smiling..... very different from place to place. I probably don't look smiley down the street but am usually happy. So what? Why should people smile as they walk? Do you? I don't think a smile is a 100% reflection on peoples current state of mind. Until last year I lived in Central London and found on the most part people did not smile so often. From living there for a few years I can see why you'd not walk around with a constant grin but that's not to say they're/you're unhappy. I now live in Edinburgh and find the majority of people do smile in the street. And I mean that honestly, it is the majority.

Qualifications not meaning much..... can't really let that slip as it's rubbish. I agree they are not everything and they shouldn't be used as a complete evaluation of a persons ability but they do mean something. For example my career and the various companies I've worked for (including freelancing off my own back) have all required me to have done a degree. Ironically I've always worked as a graphic designer when my degree is in product design but never the less it has always been a requirement. I've fought for every job I've got and I've won them through a lot of early preparation, being prepared at interviews, being good at what I do and by quite basically being better than all the other applicants. I've not got anything based on who I know and I apply for jobs where there are often over 500 applicants. Hard work and an enquiring mind is all I've ever used. I do think that my degree isn't entirely relevant to my jobs (as much of my graphic ability has been self-taught) but it's not useless.

Cars. They only appeal to me to get me about and help me get out on the bike and meet far away friends and family so can't comment a whole lot. Some are troublesome - my current one I've only ever needed a battery for so it's too varied to even comment on.

The house situation is an annoying one. I don't know much of the situation as I don't have a mortgage but I've lived away from home since 17 so have rented plenty and know buying would be nice but I'm not currently in a position to do so. By the way someone on a minimum wage would never get a 20 year mortgage and have it paid off so the situation is worse than you imagine. There is another flip side which is equally annoying though. My girlfriend and I could easily afford mortgage repayments (as they'd be less then our current rent) but without the initial deposit it's no dice. Granted we could save up a 20% deposit but a 20% deposit on a £200,000 house (which you wouldn't actually be able to find in Edinburgh) is a sizeable amount of money and would require a lot of effort to put away. It doesn't mean we are any safer to have a mortgage so people in our situation get equally annoyed. We were paying £1000 a month rent in London before council tax and bills and we never missed a penny - still can't get a mortgage.

The free time one was the one that really got me as without any shadow of a doubt that is utter nonsense. I have a girl, a good roof over my head, friends I see regularly and I still get out and ride multiple times a week - all on top of a full time job, sometimes freelance work and a 45 minute commute either side of work. If you sleep for 8 hours a night there is plenty of time to get things done, as I said originally it's all about your outlook. I ride every weekend and will always dedicate a whole day at least to it leaving the other to spend with the girl which can also include spending time with friends (quite happily the friends can fit in to riding and spending time with the girl). I get home from work at 6.30 so I can still have dinner with the lady friend, go for a night ride and be back at a decent hour to chill out before work the next day. There's not tonnes of free time, but it's there if you want it.

Can't comment on work politics as I never enter in to it. I've always got on with work staff but i'm not interesting in entertaining peoples drama and nonsense.

You say the country is full of assholes who don't care about you? Why should anyone care about you? No one cares about me and likewise I only care for a few. Why is this an issue? I don't rely on the kindness of strangers and I'd hate to live expecting it. There seems to be a slight issue of expectation there. I enjoy a tonne of hobbies, keep myself entertained and educated and try to be nice to the majority of people I encounter and isn't that enough? There's plenty of beauty out there to enjoy should you want it. I say all this whilst in some way sympathising with your comments as often they do run through my head and every now and again it's easy to get dejected about life as a whole, but that's understandable. Whilst it may come across that I think my life is a bed of roses fairly often I get f**ked off beyond belief but it's at that point where I think it's up to you as the individual to make a choice as to what you want. In reality I live a simple enough life, enjoy my hobbies, have a good girl, have a decent place with a bit of spare money in my pocket and live in a City that I like and when I think about that what more could I want?

The last point about people needing to spend their wages just to get to work.... yeah that's kinda how it works. Unless you live within walking distance or are prepared to ride what you goin'a do? That's how it is and it is the case for every single person.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Matthew62

[Luke Rainbird]

Well said that man.

Work efficiently, play hard. It's not a hard one to get right if you've got the drive and the desire to succeed

[Luke Dunstan]

And if you just can't take English life any more, there's always Beachy Head...

[shercofray]

Well said. The house situation is exactly how it should be though; why should the banks lend you their money when it will be hard to ascertain how much of a risk you are to them? If they have some of your money in an asset they will have first charge of, they should have the right to be able to re-coup all of their money as there will always be market fluctuations.

[forteh]

For me life is great.

I graduated with a degree in engineering (note not from a decent uni, or with a particularly high grade - but enough for me to do my job) and started work as a draughtsman, in the last 10 years I have moved around the company in various positions and am now unofficially lead technical designer after the technical director retired last year. I say unofficially because we have a very lax company structure and it's just how it works - I will be moving into the position officially in the future.

I was very fortunate to buy my house in 2002* for a very good price and luckily managed to re-sort my mortgage a couple of months before the banks collapsed in '08 (or when ever it was) and secured myself a 1% above base rate - My current repayments for my house + 30k of equity loans is about 300 quid! I'm well aware that when the interest rate rises things will become more difficult but in the mean time things are pretty easy financially.

*Back then HSBC offered a 100% mortgage to graduate account holders.

I live in Lichfield (a pretty posh bit of the midlands) and even so I live on the edge of the 'rough' ex council estate, now admittedly there are some less than savoury people around here, a guy was kicked to death a couple of years ago over a bottle of wine (google michael eccles murder). I have never had any problems though, I don't associate of mix with chavvy types (sweeping statement there), not involved with drugs/gambling etc etc I dont have reason to feel unsafe.

Basically to re-iterate what many people have said, life is what you make it; work hard and you will reap the rewards. If you are lucky enough to do something you enjoy (which I do on a daily basis) then it makes things so much better.

Edited February 5, 2013 by forteh

[bing]

I was quite lucky in my job, as I was agency on minimum wage until I got took full time onto an operators job, just before the collapse of the banks. Unfortunately I can't see me ever owning my own house, but my rent is cheap enough for me, and my car is paid off ow with no reason to change it. My girlfriend is reasonably tolerant to me riding, and living on my own means the bikes live in the house. My son lives with his mum, I see him on a weekend, its not the best situation but I get by. I think life in England is pretty good, I'm quite content at the moment. Ask yourself this cleric dude, England can't be that bad can it, if quite a lot of your countrymen have relocated to it? There must be something there. But I warn you this, the grass isn't always greener on the other side, not without working for it

[FamilyBiker]

i can only say something about living here in germany.we´re one of the 15 richest countries in the world,but the difference between poor and rich is dramatic,and theres not much in between the 2.

people like me,doing good old honest craftmanship are struggling to get everything payed,but are more likely to leave their job sooner than a lawyer for example due to the fatigue hard work causes,but dont get enough money to ensure their retirement.others dont even have to work because its all family property since a hundred years.

our social system leaves the opportunity for people that really dont want to work to live nearly as good as i do,but i am working 45+ hours a week in summer (regulary 38,5) for the same amount of money an intentional unemployed would have without doing anything for it.

in every country theres something wrong,mainly caused by politics that dont have to look at their wallet before buying something,and wich have no idea what it is like to have to survive.

people that dont even have own children (hence not an idea what children need or cost to grow up other than from statistics) decide in politics what is adequate for me and my family to have or not.

people who dont have to pay taxes (yeah,politics dont have to here)from their 12000euro/month income decide what amount of taxes i have to pay and tell me how fair i have to see this fact.

and yes,thats because of people beeing lazy, not standing up to make clear theyre the power in a "democratic" system.

thats the trick:people must feel good enough to not raise their voice,everything else is suspect to change without notice :wink2:

Edited February 5, 2013 by FamilyBiker

[Tom Booth]

That's because they have worked to get there. Too many people think money will fall into their lap without having to do anything for it. If you want to earn more; go and educate yourself how too.

The majority of people are to lazy to do this, and are just waiting for 'the economy to fix itself'. But they don't understand how this will happen; this is when people start complaining as they think it is a simple task.

I don't think it's a case of educating yourself out of the position. The opportunity also needs to be there. How many people are here in this country at this minute with a degree yet working mundane retail jobs? To my knowledge other then a masters/doctorette there is no higher accolade in education to achieve. The opportunities simply aren't there.

At the minute I'm in limbo, I work 2/3 days for my dad and 2/3 days for myself. I'm fortunate to have the opportunity to do this, without it I can't see how else I'd be working other then a manual labour job. I'm educated in my field and like to think I'm quite good at what I do but if the work doesn't come in, I can't do it. I don't earn a great deal of money, I cope but could be more comfortable but I love what I do.

On the flip side a chap I used to work with left the job we were in and sourced a Job counting money in a bank. Earned shite money and had no interest in the company. He's still with the same company, gives even less of a shit about it but now has quite a cushy 30k+ bonuses advisors job, which he sticks for the paycheck. There was no education, no thought process or effort even. Just right place right time I guess.

I agree, a lot of folks do sit on there arse waiting for things to pick up/handouts, but stuffs not gonna pick up without investing in these opportunists and hard workers to boost the economy again. The building trade needs a massive boost, there has been 2 small building firms in my area that have gone bust in the past week!

I understand your other point, why should banks lend money to folks they know squat about becoming a liability, but without these 95% mortgages and schemes I can't see how the next generation can get on the property ladder for the foreseeable future. If this carries on the trades will be on their arse.

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

How many people are here in this country at this minute with a degree yet working mundane retail jobs? To my knowledge other then a masters/doctorette there is no higher accolade in education to achieve. The opportunities simply aren't there.

The problem is that (without wanting to be too condescending) so many people do stupid, pointless degrees for the sake of it. How many people have degrees in psychology, sociology, geography, art etc. etc. with absolutely no intention of ever using what is basically a waste of space degree unless you plan to be a teacher in the subject or continue in academia? I would hazard a guess that if 80% of all sociology graduates are in mundane jobs only 10% of engineering graduates (say with a 2:2 or better) will be in a crappy job.

[shercofray]

I don't think it's a case of educating yourself out of the position. The opportunity also needs to be there. How many people are here in this country at this minute with a degree yet working mundane retail jobs? To my knowledge other then a masters/doctorette there is no higher accolade in education to achieve. The opportunities simply aren't there.

Education doesn't stop when you finish A Levels or a degree etc.

Just because you're not being taught by someone else or don't come out with a piece of paper saying you can do it; finishing formal education is when life starts. Go and teach yourself things that will aid you, you're working for yourself? What are you doing? What can you teach yourself so people will want to pay you more to provide the service..

I have taught myself so much in the last 18 months; because I'm motivated and know where I want to be.

EDIT: Obviously everyone has a different view on life though..

Edited February 5, 2013 by shercofray

[Tom Booth]

Oh yeah, I completely agree there. A friend of mine did a degree in business, just so he was looked on favourably for the police.

My sister did a degree in architectural technologist and came out with quite a good score. Came out of uni into a fantastic job drawing shopping centres, she was made redundant and couldn't get anything other then a job ironing clothes! I think the phrase who you know not what you know is more prominent now then ever.

Edit - aimed at Dave.

[Martin Reynolds]

And if you just can't take English life any more, there's always Beachy Head...

I cant really tell whether thats RC or not

[bing]

I think the phrase who you know not what you know is more prominent now then ever. Edit - aimed at Dave.

Correct. This is exactly how the world works nowadays, you don't really stand a chance of getting a job anywhere unless you know someone who works there.

[Tom Booth]

Education doesn't stop when you finish A Levels or a degree etc.

Just because you're not being taught by someone else or don't come out with a piece of paper saying you can do it; finishing formal education is when life starts. Go and teach yourself things that will aid you, you're working for yourself? What are you doing? What can you teach yourself so people will want to pay you more to provide the service..

I have taught myself so much in the last 18 months; because I'm motivated and know where I want to be.

EDIT: Obviously everyone has a different view on life though..

In the last 18-24 months I've solely invested in trying to get my venture off the ground. Buying equipment, books and tooling etc. I provide a timber refinishing service, be it a full suite respraying to a small damp repair on a small footstool. I'd like to say I'm educating myself on cabinet joinery but I'm failing miserably . My real passion/aspiration is 50/60's jukeboxes. In my old job I worked with them quite a lot, which sparked my interests off. I've owned a few and refurbished them all, there a tough learning curve but I'm getting there. The service I offer isn't particularly mind boggling, nor is it difficult, but the 'knack' needs to be there. I was recently bought a set if chairs a local firm had 'professionally refinished', and they were dreadful. Yet to correct there work, then repaint them and final polish I charged them half of there original cost. I still profited on those, but as it stands I don't have the reputation to back up higher charges.

My point on the degree was not so much the education side of it, more the employer side. I think society dictates you must have a degree to succeed, be it astrophysics or hair and beauty. Employers look favourably on degree holders, yet some of the most practical people I know and have worked with have all been less of an academic and more of a do-er.