ghostrider88 Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 Yeah,that´s why this example wasn´t really usable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showurcolours Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 Human body doesn´t work like that Haha I know it doesn't but 100kcal is still a 100kcal no matter where it's from. If you said a 100g of fat is a lot more caloric than 100g of protein then I'd agree with you Surface area is due to wind resistance. A skydiver doesn't lower his mass when he pulls his parachute he just increases the surface area of that mass. In a vaccum acceleration =mg and would therefore be only dependent on mass. I do agree though kcal = kcal = measure of energy It's my understanding that wind resistance is due to surface area, not the other way around. It is also my understanding that by increasing his volume, he lowers his density and thus increases surface area resulting in a decrease of mass ? I dunno, this is hurting my head now 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostrider88 Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) Nah you don´t get it, my english is far from perfect so I will advice you to search for "specific dynamic effects of protein". It´s pretty basic stuff yet the most overlooked from my experience. Edited January 21, 2013 by ghostrider88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showurcolours Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 Kcal is physical measure of energy=amount of energy you get by burning(literally) 1g of something. Human body use chamically bonded energy, so using physical measures is wildly inappropriate. It takes 10times more energy to fully breakdown and absorb 1g of protein than do the same with 1g of fat. So think once again about this "kcal=kcal" bs Firstly, scientists uses bomb calorimetry because it mimcs the energy we can obtain from food, no matter what method (that's what I was taught anyway) Yes it may take more energy to absorb and breakdown different types of nutrients but that isn't actually what you said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showurcolours Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 Nah you don´t get it, my english is far from perfect so I will advice you to search for "specific dynamic effects of protein". It´s pretty basic stuff yet the most overlooked from my experience. You're now talking about TEF (thermogenic effect of food), which I am very familiar with. Still though, 100kcal from protein and 100kcal from fat is still providing the same energy - which is what you didn't agree with in the first place - Disregarding the breaking it down and absorbing it, which is nearly impossible to workout on an individual basis. I do agree though that fat will cause a more rich environment and a greater TEF because of it's chemical structure and overall density. I think we are most likely agreeing with each other but the language barrier is prooving it to be difficult. Still though, good to see some guys with some sport specific knowledge 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostrider88 Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) Yes it is, your body won´t get same % of energy out of 100kcal of different macros making whole kcal math useless. Your energetic intake can be the same eating 50:30:20(P:C:F) and 30:50:20, yet clean energetic intake will be much much smaller resulting in BW drop. It´s only the energy you can use that counts in diet. Another basic stuff is to spread your daily food intake into 5-6 smaller meals instead of eating 3big meals. Without change in caloric intake you will most likely loose some weight just because it increases basal metabolism 6times a day instead of 3(not to mention there´s smaller chance of excess protein or carbs from bigger meal to convert to fat). Simples. Edit: I found one article for you using the same name for this effect(not that the name matters, I know they are the same things) http://jn.nutrition.org/content/15/6/565.full.pdf Edit 2: Back to Brad-My first advice would be don´t make it more of a torture than it has to be, it only increases the chance of failure. If you exclude sweets and fried foods, start to eat more frequently and start to workout your energetic balance will be changed drastically even without changing anything else. After some time your weight loss is going to slow down or even fully stop, than it´s the right time for another changes. No need to hurry, it´s marathon not a sprint. Edit 3 lol: As showyourcolors pointed out before, if you can´t live without chocolates, it does make a difference WHEN you eat it, If you really have to, eat it after workout, there´s a very small chance of turning those carbs into fat after workout,most likely it will be used to replenish muscle glycogen. Edited January 21, 2013 by ghostrider88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamKidney Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) Im not really sure how much it matters, and I dont know the ins and outs of it like some here... But all I did was set myself a routine. I'd go for a run on Monday night, gym Tuesday, rest wednesday, run Thursday, and then gym Friday, then ride throughout the weekend. To compliment that I cut snacking to a minimum, and made sure what ever I ate was classed as a "meal" in a sense. I'd have breakfast, lunch, maybe a light snack, then dinner. Didn't eat after 7pm, and cut back on fizzy drinks and sweets to lower my sugar intake (not too low, I just used to have alot) Drank more water, and began to notice changes in around 4-5 weeks. Felt so much healthier and better in myself. I need to get back into it however, Christmas has been cruel to me... Edited January 21, 2013 by Echo Lite 09 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showurcolours Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) Yes it is, your body won´t get same % of energy out of 100kcal of different macros making whole kcal math useless. Your energetic intake can be the same eating 50:30:20(P:C:F) and 30:50:20, yet clean energetic intake will be much much smaller resulting in BW drop. It´s only the energy you can use that counts in diet. Another basic stuff is to spread your daily food intake into 5-6 smaller meals instead of eating 3big meals. Without change in caloric intake you will most likely loose some weight just because it increases basal metabolism 6times a day instead of 3(not to mention there´s smaller chance of excess protein or carbs from bigger meal to convert to fat). Simples. Ok but 100kcal is given as an expended amount, not an ingested amount. That is to say that it will provide 100kcal no matter what is ingested because that is the expended figure - the very tiny minute amount it will take to break the food down to obtain that energy. Also, you energy intake can't be the same from 50/30/20 as 30/50/20 (P,C,F) because= 1g protein = ~4.5kcal 1g carb = ~4kcal 1g fat = ~9kcal. So by that simple knowledge, 50/30/20 would equate to 225kcal/120kcal/180kcal (total of 525kcal) (P,C,F) and 30/50/20 would equate to 135kcal/ 200kcal/ 180kcal (total of 515kcal) So actually the second ratio would provide 10kcal less than the first. as for BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate) - yes eating more meals of the same calorific density as the previous will increase BMR, resulting in the ability to either gain weight or increase weight Edit, Yes that journal does refer to TEF but it doesn't support your 'thesis' - especially when it's done in twenty rats haha It's mainly about the breakdown of protein and calling for more specific test conditions as opposed to the energy it will output - "more significant measurements of specific dynamic effects of food nutrients could be made if the heat production of an animal maintained in energy and nitrogen equilibrium, instead of the fasting metabolism" Edited January 21, 2013 by showurcolours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostrider88 Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 1g protein = ~4.5kcal 1g carb = ~4kcal 1g fat = ~9kcal. So by that simple knowledge, 50/30/20 would equate to 225kcal/120kcal/180kcal (total of 525kcal) (P,C,F) and 30/50/20 would equate to 135kcal/ 200kcal/ 180kcal (total of 515kcal) So actually the second ratio would provide 10kcal less than the first. That´s exactly the problem, this makes you believe you will be more prone to gaining weight on the 50/30/20, it´s higher energetic value after all(Not that the 10kcal makes a difference...)In praxis, this diet will do the exact opposite as more protein increases you energetic output(by increasing termogenesis) thus resulting in negative energetic balance, I think this is the perfect example how misleading kcal=kcal can be. Anyway, I have to get back to writing my diploma thesis(dammit) but I enjoy this kind of debate with knowledgeable people. See you later gents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showurcolours Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) In praxis, this diet will do the exact opposite as more protein increases you energetic output(by increasing termogenesis) thus resulting in negative energetic balance, I think this is the perfect example how misleading kcal=kcal can be. Anyway, I have to get back to writing my diploma thesis(dammit) but I enjoy this kind of debate with knowledgeable people. See you later gents. But I disagree again, there's no evidence for protein increasing thermogenesis/TEF. Also, it could never be a negative energetic balance because the calorific intake of protein would never be less than the required amount to digest and absorb it. Examples of negative calorific intake would be celery. 'protein increases you energetic output(by increasing termogenesis)' - which is unproven because thermogenesis/TEF is regardless of energy output. However, energy output would be directly affected by a chronic change in BMR that may be induced by changes to homeostasis. What's your thesis on? I chose psychology for my disseration (I'm guessing it's the same thing as a thesis? Unless of course you're studying at a masters or PhD level?) But yeah good debate, this is exactly how pro scientists conduct their shit (note my informality now we have finished;)) Edited January 21, 2013 by showurcolours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradJohnson Posted January 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 I'm not one for science, those big paragraphs don't actually mean anything to me unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showurcolours Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 I'm not one for science, those big paragraphs don't actually mean anything to me unfortunately. Haha sorry dude, we pretty much highjacked this thread. I f**king love science - I'm a reet geek 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perez Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 Go Vegan! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostrider88 Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 Negative in comparsion to the other type of diet, that´s what I meant And my thesis theme is: "Effect of exercise on metabolism and phenotype in patients with metabolic syndrome". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showurcolours Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 Negative in comparsion to the other type of diet, that´s what I meant And my thesis theme is: "Effect of exercise on metabolism and phenotype in patients with metabolic syndrome". Haha sounds decent, PhD, Degree or Masters? My dissertation was entitled, "Investigating the use of colour as a psychological tool to try enhance the existing benefits of Green Exercise" My tutor said that if we use "the effect of blahh blah blah" we will most likely fail as it's not specific enough. Different tutors want different things I guess Good luck with it anyway man, I'd like to read it one day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostrider88 Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 Haha sounds decent, PhD, Degree or Masters? My dissertation was entitled, "Investigating the use of colour as a psychological tool to try enhance the existing benefits of Green Exercise" My tutor said that if we use "the effect of blahh blah blah" we will most likely fail as it's not specific enough. Different tutors want different things I guess Good luck with it anyway man, I'd like to read it one day! It´s medical degree. Heh,at this point even I would like to read it one day, I hate writing long paragraphs and 50pages is way too much for me, hopefully I will make it, still have plenty of time to do it. I just passed the exam of psychiatry last week, that was such a killer to learn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostrider88 Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 I'm not one for science, those big paragraphs don't actually mean anything to me unfortunately. You have to remember, the more you know about diet, the more efficient it can be. Don´t you wanna see good results? If you do, read some literature 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradJohnson Posted January 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 You have to remember, the more you know about diet, the more efficient it can be. Don´t you wanna see good results? If you do, read some literature I'm not one for literature either. I didn't have the best teachers to be honest. I got a good grade and that's the end of it for me. Hence the reason I need a career in the army. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andeee Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) No matter what i eat or drink whether junk or healthy i still manage to fart excessively loads and real bad. After doing a newcy brown fart in the indoor spot other week i think if someone lit a match it would of sparked the whole place up haha. Ask Bing lol EDIT: After giving my ex girlfriend a dutch oven on numerous occasions now i know where i went wrong in that relationship... YOLO I think i need to see a vet. Edited January 21, 2013 by Andeee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showurcolours Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 I'm not one for literature either. I didn't have the best teachers to be honest. I got a good grade and that's the end of it for me. Hence the reason I need a career in the army. Join the marines and have some self respect lad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradJohnson Posted January 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 Join the marines and have some self respect lad! Yeah the marines is a better option to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showurcolours Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 Yeah the marines is a better option to be honest. Yes brad, yes it is. I trained for them when I was 16/17 and it was grueling, I trained with my mate though and after like 4 months he applied and got in. I decided I wanted to go to university and get a degree first. He said it was amazing but he dropped out after a year because he thought he went in too young. Plus, green berets look siiiickk! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the mysterious leemur Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 Okay couldn't be assed reading all this ( sue me) but here's my tips for loosing weight or getting fitter. 1. Run , it's great cardiovascular exercise and you'll be doing a lot of it if you join the RMs. Learn to get over the pain and learn to run or quick march with a loaded bergan. 2. Swim , it works out your whole body , doesn't put nearly as much stress on your joints as other exercise and will improve general fitness ( also recommend if you want to be a marine ) 3 Use body weight or dumbells and the like , not machines , you'll learn better form and you'll have to control your muscles more. 4. Push yourself! If you want to loose weight something I've found useful is this. Eat quorn instead of meat. Quorn is high in protein like meat but very low in fat , also in my opinion can be preferable in taste. Hope that helps you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkuskaUK Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 (edited) Im 21, 6ft3/4 and weigh 14 stone... should i be worried then? Edited January 22, 2013 by AkuskaUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCottTrials Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 you should just take as many different kinds of roid as you can at once. My mate did that, you might know him. Mo Farah? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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