Duncy H Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 What to do when it gets contaminated? Like putting tyres on and the crud they put on and oil etc? Run of the mill method would be to just regrind where as it would be a right pain or impossible to do so on these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.Wood Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 As far as contamination, since the material is bonded to the rim, you don't have to worry about solvents deteriorating the adhesion, so Simple Green or any household cleaner will do the trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamilyBiker Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 (edited) isnt that the way diamond grinding discs are made? diamond dust or similar stuff mixed with a special cyanoacrylate glue ganulate sprayed through a plasma "flame",melting dowmn on the surface? i think it could be something someone can do himself... hmmmm.... edit:googled this,theyre sintered. Edited January 16, 2013 by FamilyBiker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenmx50 Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 I think the price is almost a moot point at the moment. Current price works out to be £90. Thats the most expensive it'll ever be... As with all these things, the more people who use it, the cheaper it becomes. People are willing to spend £700+ on frames when a perfectly useable new one can be had for £300, people will buy titanium freewheels for very little weight saving, etc. I don't see how spending £90 for a trouble free rim is extortionate like y'all are saying. Having said that, I understand some people are bashers and destroy rims, fair one this isn't for you. I have also never tried it but going on what matey says it seems legit. Completely agree with all said above, If its as good as stated then i dont think you can knock the product/service itself. I will not be doing it as i just cant justify that price for my trials riding budget. But as said above if you willing to pay top money for top products a meer £90 does not seem to bad at all. Anyone that is dissing the product itself (not the costs).... ask yourself..... would you be knocking it if it was £20/£30?? I dont think the grinder would ever be used again. (as i said before this is based on it is as good as stated of course) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupintart Posted January 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 Grinding does take away quite a bit of material, just because it's dust when swept up doesn't mean much. In a matter of months time, the sidewall is at half if not more than half it's original thickness if you do harsh grinds. Just because it happened at a rate you didn't notice it (i.e. a lot at one time) doesn't mean it's not happening. Nearly every buckled rim is a rim that has seen multiple harsh grinds and it happened on a big move or botched landing. The sidewalls are thin(ner) and the aluminum has seen it's share of fatigue life from tension, truing, and abuse. And as far as the trials community behind everybody else, we're way behind. It took us YEARS just to get to carbon bars and lets not even talk about bottom brackets. ISIS is over 10 years old and we're actually spending MORE on bottom brackets than the rest of the MTB community. Hell, we even missed the whole outboard bearing BB thing which is light years better than isis. Not broke don't fix it? That's the weakest excuse for being complacent and or not wanting to accept that there are better options out there. Just because it isn't broke, that doesn't mean things can't be improved upon. By that measure we should have never left v-brakes or steel frames. As for the price, let me be clear that my price was because my rim was pretty much done ON IT'S OWN AND THE PRICE GOES DOWN THE MORE RIMS HE DOES IN A BATCH. There's a couple people in the US placing orders and theirs will be cheaper than mine because he's doing a batch. It's very possible to get the price down to 40 quid because of UK-US exchange rates and the batch size he does. As for the wearing down, there is no plastic in it. It's all metal and the material is actually stronger than the rim. It's bonded through very high heat akin to plasma coating something. It's a mixture of carbide and other minerals. Our urethane pads won't wear it down especially since there's no dragging done like rolling down a hill or stopping at speed where heat also becomes a factor. We have no heat build-up in our brakes. And even if it wears out, you can still use the rim by grinding it if you really want to get the most out of the rim. This coating is equivalent to a harsh grind. This is more for comp or demo riders who want consistent braking and/or a person who does harsh grinds every time. If you can get by on a light grind or anything less than a harsh grind and make your rims last, good for you.In that regard, this coating may not be the best option for you if you don't want to spend the money or don't need the harsh surface. As you can see from the video above, the coating holds ridiculously well. It's been pretty consistent across all pad compounds with the most noticeable differences being up front where the brake is feathered more. It still works out really well, but the pad characteristics and/or life are more apparent on the front than on the rear since the rear is mostly being locked up. It really isn't anything about being too good to be true, it's about progression of our sport and the products being available to those who want it. A titanium bb sounds too good to be true too but the premium price steers some people away while other people don't mind it. This is no different. This product was available in the past (plazmatic) and wasn't as good (but still better than a grind with the right pads.) It didn't have the flexing agent in it like this one has and the actual surface wasn't as good not to mentiuon reletively speaking, this coating isn't as expensive as the plazmatic coating was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupintart Posted January 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 To be clear, I'm not trying to push this product on anybody even if it seems that way from my tone. I'm just an advocate for people giving something a fair shot and not bashing it without experiencing it firsthand. I also want the trials community to know that there's a new product available that actually works and isn't some gimmick, which doesn't happen often. I took a pretty big risk on this myself since my current rim (the same model) has only been ground twice when I took the plunge to get a new rim coated and was perfectly fine. I however like my bike to be as low maintenance as possible while still keeping performance as a priority. This coating did that for me. I also like having the peace of mind of having a completely fresh sidewall. I don't bash rims until they're at the point where the sidewalls are thin and it seems like any gap over 3 feet will dent them or flat-spot them. So durability has never been an issue for me. So I realize how many of you this coating would not be a good idea for your to do, regardless of price. But for those of you who don't bash rear rims or have a comp rig, then this coating is damn good. FWIW, I got grease on my rear rim and simple green took everything right off. My very first ride was in the rain/mist so I know it works in the wet. It works and doesn't absolutely destroy pads. On a side note, there was another member of OTN that was looking into this very same thing (fwiw, he has several materials engineering degrees and experimented with knurling processes as well) and did not do it because the coater wanted $75 per rim and he had to have a huge batch and inventory and more or less dump a ton of money on something that he may not have been able to sell at the volumes he was required to have done. That's what kept him from doing it years ago. Nbkohring found a coater that didn't require a massive inventory and would work with him on pricing depending on batch size. He's not making hardly anything on each rim for those of you wondering if the reason the price is high because of profits. It's definitely not the case. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave33 Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 I have not read every post but, I can't see how this hasn't been snapped up. I mean if it's as good as he's saying it's for life. I know of loads of riders who don't have a grinder and have to go with a dead grind for ages until they can get me to grind for them or borrow a grinder. Then there is also the people who can't never get a decent grind And the cost of a grinder and having a place to do it How many rims do people actually distroy over time?? In the last ten years iv only had about 2/3 rims I have every Pringled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusevelt Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 Looks more abrasive than a harsh grind, so should work well for those running front maggies and want max hold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny00135 Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 (edited) Grinding does take away quite a bit of material, just because it's dust when swept up doesn't mean much. In a matter of months I think you grind a little different to us... My grinds take away very little material (i'm certain of this) and last a number of months before I need to even think about grinding it again.. I think your issue with grinds doesn't lie with grinds, but you're using a rim that doesn't hold grinds with a brake compound thats too hard. Causing you to grind your rim harsher and more often. Edited January 19, 2013 by Danny00135 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadManMike Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 I love my rim and only use lubricants on it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamKidney Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 Echo rims are king for holding a grind. I dont think I'll be buying another Try-All or Rockman rim. Will be single-walling my TR and enjoy having that extra bounce and lighter weight with a rim that works well with pretty much every pad going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny00135 Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 Echo rims are king for holding a grind. I dont think I'll be buying another Try-All or Rockman rim. Will be single-walling my TR and enjoy having that extra bounce and lighter weight with a rim that works well with pretty much every pad going. Agreed, if my old SL was lighter/ could be single-walled i'd still have it now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave33 Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 (edited) I think you grind a little different to us... My grinds take away very little material (i'm certain of this) and last a number of months before I need to even think about grinding it again.. I think your issue with grinds doesn't lie with grinds, but you're using a rim that doesn't hold grinds with a brake compound thats too hard. Causing you to grind your rim harsher and more often. How do you know how much you take off when you grind a rim, did you measure it or something. I don't think so because thats nearly impossible Your grind lasts ages because you don't ride as much as some. Do you ride in rain. Natural areas where it's muddy? Why is it that when some ones putting alot of effort in to improve trials and push things forwards you won't give it a chance. For all we know this could be a massive change in the direction of trials Edited January 20, 2013 by dave33 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny00135 Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 How do you know how much you take off when you grind a rim, did you measure it or something. I don't think so because thats nearly impossible Your grind lasts ages because you don't ride as much as some. Do you ride in rain. Natural areas where it's muddy? Why is it that when some ones putting alot of effort in to improve trials and push things forwards you won't give it a chance. For all we know this could be a massive change in the direction of trials I do ride often in all conditions, also... When i'm grinding my rim, there is no noticeable difference from the old grind to the fresh grind, that's how I know very little material is taken away... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave33 Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 I do ride often in all conditions, also... When i'm grinding my rim, there is no noticeable difference from the old grind to the fresh grind, that's how I know very little material is taken away... Right so your telling me you can tell the difference between 0.00mm and 0.10mm By eye ? I don't think so now stop being so negative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostrider88 Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 Why is it that when some ones putting alot of effort in to improve trials and push things forwards you won't give it a chance. For all we know this could be a massive change in the direction of trials Price,price,price and again, price. It might be worth it for pros or people who ride 20h/week, but for average rider here it´s just way too expensive no matter how well it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave33 Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 Price,price,price and again, price. It might be worth it for pros or people who ride 20h/week, but for average rider here it´s just way too expensive no matter how well it works. People who arnt pros are spending wAy more of ti fittings for magura just for the hell of ?? He's saying if he gets larger batches it's going to be alot cheaper But I'm glad you didn't come up with some shit excuse rather than saying its to expensive Which yea I agree price is to high at the moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupintart Posted January 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 (edited) I'm not sure I would agree with that. Judging by the builds of some of people bikes around here I would say it's very reasonable. What's another $100 usd when somebody's building a $3000 bike? Like pointed out, this is a much better investment than people spending it on Ti magura fittings that do literally nothing and save grams that aren't even remotely noticeable. Edited January 20, 2013 by rupintart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny00135 Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 And for the guy saying that there's no noticeable difference in material when you grind, then what are you grinding for if there's no noticeable difference? No noticeable difference in material lost.. not difference in braking performance.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostrider88 Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 People who arnt pros are spending wAy more of ti fittings for magura just for the hell of ?? It´s a bit different, you can buy 2 ti bolts every month and barely notice it in your wallet...But I kinda agree about the whole weight weenie bs, it isn´t necessary by any means, but if it makes them happy, who am I to judge...If I felt the need to improove my braking performance, I would consider this, but I don´t. Also you might have noticed people here tend to change stuff just for the sake of changing it too, investing in something you will change after few months wouldn´t be smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Dark Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 Well I for one am interested in getting a rear rim coated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.Wood Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 To all you haters out there: How much would you pay for this? £30? £50? £10? Out of interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostrider88 Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 Not that I´m hater, but if I needed it, 50 would be the most for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny00135 Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 I wouldn't... since I wouldn't need it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadManMike Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 Then why add to the thread? If you're not interested, move along. Personally I think this is a great idea - perhaps manufacturers could ship rims with this as standard in future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts