trials hoe Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 (edited) so, since there is no rsq anymore guess i'll ask a few questions this way. firstly spokes - i'm looking to shed weight in all places i can (working on a basis of cost/weight ratio, spokes are relatively cheap and i build my own wheels. so a small weight reduction is feesable from a cost perspective) if some one could explain the difference between spokes (plain gauge, double butted and triple butted) as a weight difference and build strength. i use plain gauge at the moment and ti spokes are out of the question, absurdly expensive (at £80 a wheel) and snap easy from what i've read. alloy nipples - again cheap to buy and do as well as saving a quick bit of weight, are they worth it? have had a research and some say to stay away from them as they strip easy and corrode, these were the opinions of non-trials related riders and the stresses of trials are very different to other disciplines and i can't see corrosion being an issue as my bike never gets really dirty or wet. are there any drawbacks to using shorter nipples? would it make for a weaker build? alu bolts - again anybody run these? alu is lighter than ti and a fair bit cheaper, echo crank bolts are alu and they take a good wrenching up, granted m6 and m5 bolts will take less tension than m15 but are they 'safe'? mainly to run in the bar clamp and on the caliper mounts for a disk setup, in both places a fail would be unpleasant. ybn mk 747 chain - any reviews? a fair bit lighter than my current chain (echo sells these under their own name, but it still says the ybn name on the links) that's all i can think of for now, so any help would be nice cheers guys. Edited December 23, 2012 by trials hoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolver Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 Alloy nipples can snap pretty easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockman Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 I use double butted spokes on all my wheels, 2.0/1.8 and never had any problems, always seem strong and stiff.. and generally are easy to work with. I also use Alu nipples on all my wheels, as long as you don't bash a spoke with some force off an object they are fine. I am a qualified wheelbuilder in Cytech 2 btw 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trials hoe Posted December 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 Alloy nipples can snap pretty easily. this from personal experience? no-one ever seems to say what it was that caused them to fail, like weight of the rider and what he was doing. I use double butted spokes on all my wheels, 2.0/1.8 and never had any problems, always seem strong and stiff.. and generally are easy to work with. I also use Alu nipples on all my wheels, as long as you don't bash a spoke with some force off an object they are fine. I am a qualified wheelbuilder in Cytech 2 btw any idea of the weight difference vs plain gauge? also have a question about which way you twist/rotate the hub when lacing the wheel, just not sure how to word it. you seem like the right person to ask Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolver Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 Personal experience. I had them on my get around bike, just a few low bunny-hops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockman Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 this from personal experience? no-one ever seems to say what it was that caused them to fail, like weight of the rider and what he was doing. any idea of the weight difference vs plain gauge? also have a question about which way you twist/rotate the hub when lacing the wheel, just not sure how to word it. you seem like the right person to ask I think the last time I weighed it, was about 40g a side.. so pretty good. I don't understand the second part? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
customrider-Rhys Posted December 25, 2012 Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 (edited) this from personal experience? no-one ever seems to say what it was that caused them to fail, like weight of the rider and what he was doing. any idea of the weight difference vs plain gauge? also have a question about which way you twist/rotate the hub when lacing the wheel, just not sure how to word it. you seem like the right person to ask i get you, its anti clockwise and doing things like changing your chain spokes and nipple is going to save bugger all weight and possibly mean you have not as strong parts! whats the rest of your bike spec? people might be able to help with some weight shedding on other parts Edited December 25, 2012 by customrider-Rhys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trials hoe Posted December 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 (edited) is there a reason for anti clockwise? one of those things i've never been able to find a reason for while looking about ongoogle. alloys nipples are apparently worth 40g over brass (both wheels). i know its a small amount but i'm working on the basis of grams make kilos, so a small weight saving on everything will mount up. the chain is 90g lighter than the one i have at the mo (kmc 710) and my bikes a bit arse heavy too so would like to loose some weight from the back. spec in here -- http://www.trials-forum.co.uk/topic/178465-oh-no-another-deng-bandwagon/ will be changing the forks for some sl's or something similar, getting a lighter front tyre and getting some lighter cranks. oh it has some rockman carbons on now too Edited December 25, 2012 by trials hoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williams Posted December 25, 2012 Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 I would stay away from those alu bolts. I had them, and when I was going to tension up the stem bolts one just snapped and flew away, bare in mind that it wasn't even alot of tension in the bolt. They do look nice though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bing Posted December 25, 2012 Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 Chains - just get a kmc 710. Best one there is, nice and cheap, and very strong if you keep it clean and lubed properly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trials hoe Posted December 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 (edited) I would stay away from those alu bolts. I had them, and when I was going to tension up the stem bolts one just snapped and flew away, bare in mind that it wasn't even alot of tension in the bolt. They do look nice though. worrying stuff, but it's better that rather the went like that than when riding. did you try them anywhere else? maggie mounts, wheel bolts? Edited December 25, 2012 by trials hoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williams Posted December 25, 2012 Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 worrying stuff, but it's better that rather the went like that than when riding. did you try them anywhere else? maggie mounts, wheel bolts? thats what i have on already Yes I don't think that the stem bolts will break when riding haha, just when tightening stuff:) Yes I have one on the bleed hole on the maggie, a "safe" place to put it and I'm keeping it there:) Please DO NOT use them as hub bolts, since hubs require alot of tensioning they would just snap right off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted December 25, 2012 Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 alloy nipples are great! I've used them for the past 5 years and I've never snapped or rounded one off. I have them on my inspired now and they have been on two wheels before these. I think they build a better wheel too, brass nipples don't have much give and neither do steel spokes, so any imperfections creates a lot of friction making the nipples harder to turn at high tension. Alloy nipples are softer, so they "give" to any imperfections meaning a smoother turn all the way into the tightest of tensions, I always manage to get higher spoke tensions with alloy nipples. I wouldn't bother with alloy bolts, Ti would be better. As for chains, ditch the 710, they are heavy and stretch loads. get yourself a k610, they are better designed and hardly stretch much at all so they last longer, plus they are lighter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trials hoe Posted December 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 alloy nipples are great! I've used them for the past 5 years and I've never snapped or rounded one off. I have them on my inspired now and they have been on two wheels before these. I wouldn't bother with alloy bolts, Ti would be better. As for chains, ditch the 710, they are heavy and stretch loads. get yourself a k610, they are better designed and hardly stretch much at all so they last longer, plus they are lighter. think ill get some alloy nipples then, if they cope with the grief street will put through them tgs should be fine then. was reading a thread on a different forum about bolts, ti bolts seem the safe way to go......at a cost haha. cant find the k610, found a z610 though in 3/32" but i don't know if it will fit on my echo fw, tr sprocket will run both but there's no info on the fw. any disadvantages of a 3/32" vs 1/8" chain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake. Posted December 25, 2012 Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 think ill get some alloy nipples then, if they cope with the grief street will put through them tgs should be fine then. was reading a thread on a different forum about bolts, ti bolts seem the safe way to go......at a cost haha. cant find the k610, found a z610 though in 3/32" but i don't know if it will fit on my echo fw, tr sprocket will run both but there's no info on the fw. any disadvantages of a 3/32" vs 1/8" chain? Regarding the chain, I've run the Z610 for 1-2 years on various bikes and setups, perfect chain. Ali means the z610 chain by the way It works with my Echo 108 ffw, a trialtech 15t rear sprocket. Also worked on a Tensile 96 click ffw... It'll work on your setup for sure, and 3/32" chains are thinner than 1/8" and slightly weaker. The z610 is 330g and takes up to 1200kg load. The 1/8" one on tartybikes, z510 is 368g and also takes up to 1200kg load... So there's not a huge amount of benefit other than if you're using slightly wider sprockets then it'll help, most chains will be fine as long as they don't get twisted/bashed. http://www.tartybikes.co.uk/chains/kmc_z610_hx_332_inch/c7p11539.html Sorry if I'm rambling on but I hope that helped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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