Hid Conversion

[Martin Reynolds]

Considering winters coming and its already getting dark when i leave work, it'd be nice to have headlights that'd actually light up the road.

Anyone had any good/bad experiences with HID kits? any to avoid?

was thinking something like this?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/35W-Bi-Xenon-HID-Conversion-kit-H4-Hi-Lo-4300K-6000K-10000K-UK-STOCK-/130793096358?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item1e73e044a6

Cheers

[Pashley26]

Eurgh so weird. I literally JUST fitted mine to the Audi.

Do it, HUGE benefit. Totally illegal though.

[Martin Reynolds]

Totally illegal though.

How? surely if you have a correct beam pattern, and the headlights are set up at the correct height, it doesn't matter what bulbs you use?

[RobinJI]

What car is it? If you don't have projectors, don't do it. If you do, I'd still be reluctant. It's nice for you but not for everyone else around you on the road. I'm a big believer that a standard halogen is perfectly enough for a dipped beam, too much light just means your eyes loose the ability to pick out the detail in the shadows outside the beam pattern as there's too much contrast for them to deal with. Dipped beams don't shine far enough ahead for it to be useful having every detail shown to you anyway, so there's no real advantage to them being really bright, they're just something that seems nice at first, but isn't actually helping. (like modern cars having tiny windows, it makes you feel safe and cocooned, but it's not safer, because you can't see out, so are more likely to hit something.)

If your lights are a bit shit then look at sorting the wiring (a lot of cars benefit greatly from a relayed power feed straight from the battery) and some half decent halogen bulbs, as well as making sure the lenses are nice and clear. If that's not enough then in the nicest way possible I'd suggest it's your eyesight or driving style that's at fault rather than the car.

(Admittedly, a well adjusted, sensible power HID set-up can be fine, but then there's no real advantage over a halogen other than the lower current draw, but if the cars designed for halogens then that's not going to make much difference anyway.)

Edited October 29, 2012 by RobinJI

[Pashley26]

Nope.

The beam pattern is not correct, to fit HID's you need to have a matching reflector and projector along with an anti glare lens. They also need to have a self leveling system by law. The upgrade kits ARE illegal, hasn't stopped me or countless friends running the cheap ebay kits for years though.

See in this image I took less than 10 mins ago how much glare there is, with normal bulbs or proper HID's with original fitment projectors you don't get any of that.

As Robin says as well, biggest downside is everything looks 2d with ANY HID's. Halogens give a better flood of light over distance than HID's, that is fact. But HID's are much brighter in the short term and look pimp as f**k.

Edited October 29, 2012 by Pashley26

[sfboy]

Thought self adjustment and washers (also a legal requirement) are only applicable for OEM fittings?

As the driver they are great, I have them on the Civ (OEM). But for everyone else they are a bit of a nuisance. I don't know how the self adjustment works, but everytime I go up a hill, I'm sure I blind everyone else on the other side.

Has anyone else noticed that new Mercedes have THE most ridiculously intense lights, every time I get blinded in the mirror, it ends up being a newish merc.

[Martin Reynolds]

What car is it? If you don't have projectors, don't do it. If you do, I'd still be reluctant. It's nice for you but not for everyone else around you on the road. I'm a big believer that a standard halogen is perfectly enough for a dipped beam, too much light just means your eyes loose the ability to pick out the detail in the shadows outside the beam pattern as there's too much contrast for them to deal with. Dipped beams don't shine far enough ahead for it to be useful having every detail shown to you anyway, so there's no real advantage to them being really bright, they're just something that seems nice at first, but isn't actually helping. (like modern cars having tiny windows, it makes you feel safe and cocooned, but it's not safer, because you can't see out, so are more likely to hit something.)

If your lights are a bit shit then look at sorting the wiring (a lot of cars benefit greatly from a relayed power feed straight from the battery) and some half decent halogen bulbs, as well as making sure the lenses are nice and clear. If that's not enough then in the nicest way possible I'd suggest it's your eyesight or driving style that's at fault rather than the car.

(Admittedly, a well adjusted, sensible power HID set-up can be fine, but then there's no real advantage over a halogen other than the lower current draw, but if the cars designed for halogens then that's not going to make much difference anyway.)

Its only a Citroen ax, but like i said, its nice to be able to see.

I know the headlights are properly shit atm due to poor bulbs. The drivers headlight has been replaced a few months ago (the lens on the old one decided to fall out one day ).

I know theres the option of brighter halogen bulbs, buts its all these ultrabirght/simply white/ brillant blue, ect that claim to be 50-100-150% brighter than standard bulbs, and you know in the small print it says " measured on this car at this time of day, with this amount of ambient light" which means if you buy them and they're shit, its cause of your car.

So if you've got any suggestions of any halogen bulbs, im willing to listen

Theres enough people going around with stupid bright/ incorrectly adjusted headlights for me not to have the greatest care for other road users

And to be honest, im not that bothered about picking up detail, i just wanna be able to see the big objects that i want to avoid hitting

[RobinJI]

Yeah, new mercs, some Audis, and 99% of Chelsea tractors are the worst offenders for blinding other people for sure, but they still don't come close to a lot of the cars with aftermarket kits (not all, but a lot!)

The self leveling in most cars only levels when the ignition's turned on, it's not active as you drive, so yeah, they still blind everyone every time you go over a hill or around a left hand bend. Give me a dimmer light with a soft edge any-day. (Both as the driver and the person being blinded.) The harsh edge makes it look like people are flashing you every time they hit a bump in the road too. (Which isn't helped by the silly stiff suspension X5's and the like have to stop them handling like a particularly crap boat.)

And to be honest, im not that bothered about picking up detail, i just wanna be able to see the big objects that i want to avoid hitting

Then why'd you need HID's it's hard to miss the big things even with dim lights. That's exactly my point, if you over-illuminate a small area of your vision then the rest of it will be worse, meaning that when that big thing comes at you, you'll see it later, but with more detail. Personally, like you, I'd rather see it earlier with more detail.

Wiring will make a MUCH bigger difference than aftermarket bulbs. Seriously, the best thing you could do with an AX will be to relay the lights with a supply straight from the battery (obviously through a fuse!)

[Martin Reynolds]

Then why'd you need HID's it's hard to miss the big things even with dim lights. That's exactly my point, if you over-illuminate a small area of your vision then the rest of it will be worse, meaning that when that big thing comes at you, you'll see it later, but with more detail. Personally, like you, I'd rather see it earlier with more detail.

Wiring will make a MUCH bigger difference than aftermarket bulbs. Seriously, the best thing you could do with an AX will be to relay the lights with a supply straight from the battery (obviously through a fuse!)

I'm quite happy to slap in a relay to prove you wrong

I fully understand what you're saying in regards to excessive light causing you to not being able to see anything else, but you seriously underestimate the lack of light my headlights produce

[Luke Rainbird]

Yeah, Robin's one of the most clued up members on here about all things automotive, so disregarding his well thought out and well explained advice is probably a little silly.

Slap in some Osram Nightbreakers, sort the wiring and you're sorted

[Martin Reynolds]

Yeah, Robin's one of the most clued up members on here about all things automotive, so disregarding his well thought out and well explained advice is probably a little silly.

Slap in some Osram Nightbreakers, sort the wiring and you're sorted

Like im gunna take ANY advice from you....

[RobinJI]

No need to stick in a relay to see if it's worth while, just measure the voltage that actually gets to the bulb with the car running, in comparison to the voltage at the battery. If there's much of a difference then you're loosing out on a fair bit of light.

[Martin Reynolds]

No need to stick in a relay to see if it's worth while, just measure the voltage that actually gets to the bulb with the car running, in comparison to the voltage at the battery. If there's much of a difference then you're loosing out on a fair bit of light.

Valid point

You said earlier that HID kits are fine as long as they're low powered and set up correctly. Do you have any ones that you 'deem' low powered? and does the light colour make see detail better/worse?

[Pashley26]

I'm really confused about the way this thread has gone.

Have you understood what I have told you and what Robin is telling you?

Edited October 29, 2012 by Pashley26

[RobinJI]

I've never really looked into them heavily my self, I've just paid attention to the effect they have in mates/other peoples cars. If I remember right 4300k seems to be the best all around colour though, in that it's supposed to be the closest to the spectrum of sun-light, so that's what I'd be trying if you insist on them. It seriously is worth looking at relaying them though, it makes a huge difference to most older cars, even with any old bulbs it usually brings them in-line with modern cars (that don't have HID's), which tend to be more than bright enough.

Edited October 29, 2012 by RobinJI

[Luke Rainbird]

Like im gunna take ANY advice from you....

Yeah, I couldn't give a flying f**k about giving you advice, but when someone who knows a metric f**ktonne about a subject you're asking about gives you solid, logical, backed up info it's generally accepted that you should pay at least some attention to it.

Oh, and suck my balls.

[CurtisRider]

HIDs in projectors=winner (I have headlight washers and auto levelling lights as standard with aftermarket HIDs)

H4 HIDs are pants in reflector housings on the road, the light scatters everywhere and everything looks mong making it really uncomfortable after a short period of time. We have them in our tractors for field work which is fine as its nice and open, but on the road with trees and stuff it is just horrid, everyhting looks really wrong and its hard work for your eyes. If you are going to bother going the HID route then build in some projectors to your current lights or do as Robin says and check your wiring/fit decent H4s (which makes the most sense).

Also if you do go HID buy 35W, not 55W. 55W is for arseholes.

[Martin Reynolds]

I've never really looked into them heavily my self, I've just paid attention to the effect they have in mates/other peoples cars. 4300k seems to be the best all around colour though, in that it's supposed to be the closest to the spectrum of sun-light, so that's what I'd be trying if you insist on them. It seriously is worth looking at relaying them though, it makes a huge difference to most older cars, even with any old bulbs it usually brings them in-line with modern cars (that don't have HID's), which tend to be more than bright enough.

I donno why either you or pashley are getting the idea that im fixed on HID. i am listening to what your saying, and it makes complete sense.

14.4 volts through dodgy old wiring = something odd volts at headlight and poop performance.

I was asking more out of curiosity, if sorting my wiring out doesn't make much of a difference.

Yeah, I couldn't give a flying f**k about giving you advice, but when someone who knows a metric f**ktonne about a subject you're asking about gives you solid, logical, backed up info it's generally accepted that you should pay at least some attention to it.

Oh, and suck my balls.

On your period?

[Pashley26]

Go get some HID's then, if you want them.

I've told you how they work and that the cheap ebay kits are good, that I've run them for years and they're reliable though totally illegal, Robin's told you why you don't really need them and that actually you can get a safer and more efficient result from improving your existing setup. Just depends what you want.

[RobinJI]

Fair play, I wasn't having a go, sorry if it seemed like I was being a little over-insistent. HID's annoy me more than the average road user as I tend to drive very low-slung cars (as in low roof line, not just suspension), and my eyes are particularly sensitive to bright lights. That combined with living in a quiet countryside area where you can drive at night for a fair few miles before seeing another car, has lead to a few near misses when cars with silly light have come the other way (or even up behind me!) and completely blinded me.

[Martin Reynolds]

Fair play, I wasn't having a go, sorry if it seemed like I was being a little over-insistent. HID's annoy me more than the average road user as I tend to drive very low-slung cars (as in low roof line, not just suspension), and my eyes are particularly sensitive to bright lights. That combined with living in a quiet countryside area where you can drive at night for a fair few miles before seeing another car, has lead to a few near misses when cars with silly light have come the other way (or even up behind me!) and completely blinded me.

Nah that's fair play, the topic was 'are they worth it' and you've suggested a way i can improve them with spending f**k all money. Cant complain at that

I know where you're coming from, i'm sensitive to bright lights as well and it pisses me off when cars have badly set up lights. I've seen some properly nicely set up HID's though before, where you can clearly see they light the road up a treat, but look like sidelights as you drive past the car.

[Revolver]

Personally I'm interested in LED bulbs. Given those a look? Should be nice clean light with the bonus of lasting a lot longer.

[Tom Booth]

Have you had the beam set at all? I had mine setup last week after lowering it in summer an its worlds different. Plus the beam adjusters on the mini always used to move a tiny bit over a few months so come winter they were shit again. Might help...

[CurtisRider]

Personally I'm interested in LED bulbs. Given those a look? Should be nice clean light with the bonus of lasting a lot longer.

Those LED headlight bulbs you see on ebay are nowhere near good enough, and aren't heatsinked so probably wont last that long

[Revolver]

Doh, you said you found some good ones, you'd have to hook me up!