ghostrider88 Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 This steps a little outside my biology knowledge but there's a difference between something you get psychologically addicted to, and something that's actually addictive. I'd like to see showurcolours' explanation for it, because I've forgotten, lol. You explained it pretty well actually There´s difference between habit and addiction. You won´t kill anyone for cup of coffee, you might for single dose of heroin. That´s addiction. No need to go down dopamine receptors and their down-regulation road on trials forum I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trials hoe Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 This steps a little outside my biology knowledge but there's a difference between something you get psychologically addicted to, and something that's actually addictive. I'd like to see showurcolours' explanation for it, because I've forgotten, lol. addiction is addiction, but if something is psychologically addicve means you won't get any physical withdrawls - shakes ect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostrider88 Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 addiction is addiction, but if something is psychologically addicve means you won't get any physical withdrawls - shakes ect. See,that´s were you are wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebelistic Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Caffeine is known to have physical withdrawal symptoms (headaches etc.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Caffeine isn´t addictive... The internet seems to disagree? Physical and psychological addiction can result from excessive caffeine intake. In an interview, Roland Griffiths, a professor in the departments of psychiatry and neuroscience at the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine, said that the studies had demonstrated that people who take in a minimum of one hundred milligrams of caffeine per day (about the amount in half a cup of coffee) can acquire a physical dependence that would trigger withdrawal symptoms that include headaches, muscle pain and stiffness, lethargy, nausea, vomiting, depressed mood, and marked irritability. That Roland Griffiths guy is also written about in the National Geographic where they talk about whether it is/isn't an addiction. There's also an interesting bit in this piece that talks about it too, and why it's potentially being misclassified as not being addictive. I haven't really looked into it much but it seems that the only reason that it's not classed as a full addiction is that it doesn't cause the sort of dramatic 'problems' you get with things like the drug addiction you mentioned before. I don't really get why that should limit it though, in that if it causes physical and psychological dependence and has a proven list of withdrawal symptoms and so on that class it as an addiction? Like I said, I haven't really looked into it and don't know that much about it so this is more out of curiosity than "You're wrong" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostrider88 Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) http://www.caffeined...dependence.html Look here, it is possible to become dependant, but it´s rare and kind of contoversal still. If you start taking heroin(yes it´s different to caffeine and may sound hard, but it´s sort of model drug) you will become addicted to it in 100% and there is no way you wouldn´t, it´s just the way it works. All really addictive substances cause massive release od dopamine in brain, which cases that good feel, same works for food for example, BUT... Heroin does this so much more than common impetus like food, it is contraproductive and is causing harm to the brain tissue, so body tries to avoid this dammage by reducing number of dopamine receptors. This sure helps to prevent this "toxic" effect of dopamine, but it leads to lack of good feelings coming from those normal things like I mentioned before and that´s the reason why really addicted subjects need to take that drug, nothing else is strong enough and even the starting those is not enough for someone who has been on it for months or years. For someone who hasn´t tried it before, 300mg can be lethal, for experienced drug abuser is possible doing over 1000mg/day. Take him his dose and he may actually die in horrible pains, that´s why you can´t really stop taking without help of weaker opiates like metadon, you can´t take that pain. With caffeine, this doesn´t really happen, sure, you can feel weak, tired and not focused, but that´s about it, those two cannot even be compared. And to add my personal experience as well, I have tried maybe 20 pre-workout supplements, all of them contained some form of caffeine in dosages much higher than cup of coffee and most of them contained some even more potent stimulans like geranium etc. I usually cycle usage of them and I can say I don´t feel any need to take any caffeine in this off window, not even one single coffee and I don´t feel any worse without them. Edited October 31, 2012 by ghostrider88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Yeah, it was mainly the comparison to heroin that I kept finding weird because it just seems like a pretty extreme thing to hold it up to. Nicotine's an extremely addictive drug, but it's not going to make people go out and kill like heroin would. I'm not saying that they are exactly the same, but nicotine/caffeine seems more of a relevant comparison to me especially in terms of them being a socially acceptable drug. People who smoke don't have to go out and commit crime to get their next 'fix', it doesn't jeopardise their livelihood, etc., but it's still an addiction and can still cause problems both mentally and physically (not getting into the whole smoking-causing-cancer side of things ). What you said makes sense though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showurcolours Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Ok sorry, had to wait like a day till I could post again. Frustrating but I understand why. So it turns out that caffeine can be classed as addictive (depending on which scientific journal you look at) I found this from 'The American Journal of Drug and Alcohol Abuse' which states; 'The common-sense use of the term addiction is that regular consumption is irresistible and that it creates problems. Caffeine use does not fit this profile. Its intake does no harm to the individual or to society and its users are not compelled to consume it. Though cessation of regular use may result in symptoms such as headache and lethargy, these are easily and reliably reversed by ingestion of caffeine. Some have argued that continued caffeine use is an attempt to suppress low grade withdrawal symptoms such as sleepiness and lethargy. In some moderate users, this is possible; however, in experimental contexts, the phenomenon is too inconsistent to constitute a reliably valid syndrome.' I like to think this is pretty much what I said originally (but obviously in a lot more depth) - regarding that some people may find it addictive and others do not. I guess it just depends on trying to distinguish between habit/ritual use and the feeling of want/need. Obviously there are going to be difficulties when trying to do this. I'd like to think that everyone is sensible enough to know not to drink caffeine containing substances in heavy quantities but regardless, it does still happen. The comparison of nicotine and caffeine is relevant and somewhat accurate, but note that nicotine (in the form of cigarettes) has a negative effect on others around you (just like heroin for that matter) whereas caffeine does not. This is reflected in my quote by the term 'social impacts' I hope this further explains my original post =) -Showurcolours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bing Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 showurcolours. trials forums new resident doctor/professor/physcologist/general all found genius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Anscombe Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 (edited) The us army along with others were using theese energy drinks! the reason Why the removed them from the army was because How brutal they are On the liver! Edited November 1, 2012 by Dave Anscombe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showurcolours Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 showurcolours. trials forums new resident doctor/professor/physcologist/general all found genius Hahah! Well I have to use my degree in some productive way Only happy to help though The us army along with others were using theese energy drinks! the reason Why the removed them from the army was because How brutal they are On the liver! Yeh along with the fact that consuming energy drinks gives you a temporary boost but makes you feel even worse once it's worn off. Modafinil is like 8 hours of pure up, no downtime as well as increasing pretty much every psychological aspect there is; reflex time, spatial awareness, proprioception, been rumored to even enhance brain power! Cognitive enhancers are such cool 'drugs', I still have some piracetam left and might (when I actually have a bike) have a little go at taking some whilst riding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostrider88 Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 The us army along with others were using theese energy drinks! the reason Why the removed them from the army was because How brutal they are On the liver! LOL,good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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