Nick Manning Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 Some of you may remember I snapped my Echo Pure in two back in February this year. Well I gave it to Josh Leech from Jaf Bikes to see what he could do and this is the result. Top tube cut out. Downtube positioned back into place. Carbon top tube bonded in. The finished repair. The top tube has been replaced with a carbon fiber tube which has been inserted inside the aluminium frame tubing and bonded into place. The down tube has been welded together and smoothed over, with a foam gusset used between the top tube and down tube. Then as you can see from the pictures it has all been carbon wrapped. The original plan was to replace both top tube and down tube with carbon tubes, but Josh wasn't happy about doing it without fully testing it to see how a frame would perform like this, so he decided to do the above and is very happy with it. I've not yet ridden the bike, but I am keen to see if it feels any difference. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostrider88 Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 That is just perfect...I don´t want to know how much repair like this costs though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Manning Posted September 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 (edited) I'll be honest I wasn't charged for this as Josh wanted to do it as a project, but I did have my Yaabbaa 1499 repaired. It had cracked at the end of the gusset on the top of the down tube, this cost £28 at the time. Edited September 26, 2012 by Nick Manning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isitafox Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 Spotted the pics he posted of this and wondered what it was. Another top repair job! And the carbon wrap doesn't look out of place like on some of the repairs he does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimpanzyyyy Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 this is feckin genius I m gonna brake something just to carbon warp it! 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Leech Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 It'll be interesting to see how much punishment this can take. Cheers for trying it out for me Nick, big help . Looks lovely btw , Josh. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake. Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 (edited) Wow that's quite a recovery. Was expecting you to show us a brand new 2013 pure or something, but that's even better. Looks better too haha. How much did it cost? And does it ride any differently? Also, gotta love how you're using what appears to be the lounge as the bike room. Edited September 26, 2012 by JMCD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Manning Posted September 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 It'll be interesting to see how much punishment this can take. Cheers for trying it out for me Nick, big help . Looks lovely btw , Josh. That's no problem Josh, I appreciate you being able to give it ago as I much prefer this frame to my Zoo. I'd Luke to say ill be taking it easy to start with but my first ride on it will be at the weekend for demos. I took it to work last night to show my colleagues, I managed to have a little play on it. I can't say it feels much different to before which is good, so it's just down to strength. Wow that's quite a recovery. Was expecting you to show us a brand new 2013 pure or something, but that's even better. Looks better too haha. How much did it cost? And does it ride any differently? Also, gotta love how you're using what appears to be the lounge as the bike room. Cheers, I like it quite a lot, particularly as its a unique Echo Pure. I have had a little play on it at work (so only flatland riding), and it feels no different. It may respond differently when actually riding trials and doing things such as gaps to front and taps, we shall see. I live in a 1 bedroom flat with my wife with no garden, so the bikes had to go somewhere inside, so I had to designate somewhere to be my bike area :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake. Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 Let us know when you have a proper ride on it, interested to hear. Aha that's cool, I'd struggle with me and my Dad's 16ish bikes in a flat... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filo Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 You must be really brave or really stupid(don't take it the wrong way) It would be a big gamble riding a frame that has been that distoryed. Good luck hopefully it lasts and doesn't fail at an inappropriate moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dngr2self Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 You must be really brave or really stupid(don't take it the wrong way) It would be a big gamble riding a frame that has been that distoryed. Good luck hopefully it lasts and doesn't fail at an inappropriate moment. Do you actually know what your on about? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Manning Posted September 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 Let us know when you have a proper ride on it, interested to hear. Aha that's cool, I'd struggle with me and my Dad's 16ish bikes in a flat... Will do, I'll see if I can get a few clips from the weekends shows. You must be really brave or really stupid(don't take it the wrong way) It would be a big gamble riding a frame that has been that distoryed. Good luck hopefully it lasts and doesn't fail at an inappropriate moment. I don't see why it's brave, stupid or a gamble. The down tube has been welded back in place and then carbon wrapped to improve strength and prevent it from cracking on the weld. The carbon top tube has been bonded inside the remaining top tube at either end and then carbon wrapped over the top, again to improve strength. The complete head tube has aslo been carbon wrapped to stiffen up that whole area linked with the top and down tube repairs. So overall it is stiffer than before and also stronger than before. Do you actually know what your on about? It appears he doesn't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Anscombe Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 Nice one looks spot on ! will see how it holds up to your riding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Manning Posted September 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 Nice one looks spot on ! will see how it holds up to your riding Cheers Dave, are you back into riding? If so pop into Bournemouth/Poole soon and have a play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Song Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 I don't see why it's brave, stupid or a gamble. The down tube has been welded back in place and then carbon wrapped to improve strength and prevent it from cracking on the weld. The carbon top tube has been bonded inside the remaining top tube at either end and then carbon wrapped over the top, again to improve strength. The complete head tube has aslo been carbon wrapped to stiffen up that whole area linked with the top and down tube repairs. So overall it is stiffer than before and also stronger than before. Valid post, but keep in mind rewelded aluminum will always be weaker than what it used to be. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Manning Posted September 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 Valid post, but keep in mind rewelded aluminum will always be weaker than what it used to be. It is a concern which is being kept in the back of my mind ) Another rider I know (Steve Rogers) has a Echo Pure which cracked ont he down tube where mine snapped, Jaf Bikes welded that up and carbon wrapped that area, and he has been riding it for some time with out any issues as fa as I am aware. I feel quite confident it should last awhile, if not I can always go back to my Piranha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Leech Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) Valid post, but keep in mind rewelded aluminum will always be weaker than what it used to be. Thats the point of the carbon . The only reson a re-welded frame cracks again is the fact that the same amount of stress is being exerted through the joint as it was before it failed (I've repaired a few frames that have cracked in a really odd place because they've been dented by a sharp edge, never had any of them returned because theres no regular stress being put through that particular area ). The carbon stops this as it stiffens the joint that has been welded, highly reducing any chance of fatigue . Also, due to the fact I use a base layer bond to apply the carbon, you could probably get away without welding the crack, might try that soon actually . Cheers, Josh. Edited September 28, 2012 by Rob Leech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filo Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Do you actually know what your on about? Yes I do. It was stated Down the page. When you weld material you change the grain structure. When you weld a high grade alloy that's heat treated you have to re heat treat the frame to get the material to be the same throughout. So having a alloy frame welded,the material becomes softer around the weld. I understand that the carbon reinforces the joint and stiffens up the frame,I don't have any problems with that. What testing has been done on the durability on this bonding? Is there any actual tensile strength testing? Bond strength? I know that carbon is used with other bikes. They are moulded, have different carbon weaves to suit the stresses of the frame,not just a sheet of wet lay carbon. Where are the full carbon trials frames? Theres one,the m5. Looking at pictures the carbon lay looks good With the stresses of a trials frame,taps and hooks etc,it would be interesting to see how long until the glue brakes down and starts to separate. Remember the old double wall azonic bars,when the grip tube where glued? The glue broke and the bars fly shit, the forks with steel steerer? I've broken the bond in them many times. As I said it would be good to see the long term durability,but at what cost? The frames are cheap,possible medical bills from a unproven technique. Just mentioning my concerns,no need for all your hate. I suppose the years of welding,fitting and machining make me have no idea about things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dngr2self Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Yes I do. It was stated Down the page. When you weld material you change the grain structure. When you weld a high grade alloy that's heat treated you have to re heat treat the frame to get the material to be the same throughout. So having a alloy frame welded,the material becomes softer around the weld. I understand that the carbon reinforces the joint and stiffens up the frame,I don't have any problems with that. What testing has been done on the durability on this bonding? Is there any actual tensile strength testing? Bond strength? I know that carbon is used with other bikes. They are moulded, have different carbon weaves to suit the stresses of the frame,not just a sheet of wet lay carbon. Where are the full carbon trials frames? Theres one,the m5. Looking at pictures the carbon lay looks good With the stresses of a trials frame,taps and hooks etc,it would be interesting to see how long until the glue brakes down and starts to separate. Remember the old double wall azonic bars,when the grip tube where glued? The glue broke and the bars fly shit, the forks with steel steerer? I've broken the bond in them many times. As I said it would be good to see the long term durability,but at what cost? The frames are cheap,possible medical bills from a unproven technique. Just mentioning my concerns,no need for all your hate. I suppose the years of welding,fitting and machining make me have no idea about things Don't jump in and call people stupid and you won't get the "hate". I'm sure you may have some idea what your talking about but you don't know the processes this frame has been through to make it good again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Leech Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 I understand that the carbon reinforces the joint and stiffens up the frame,I don't have any problems with that. What testing has been done on the durability on this bonding? Is there any actual tensile strength testing? Bond strength? I know that carbon is used with other bikes. They are moulded, have different carbon weaves to suit the stresses of the frame,not just a sheet of wet lay carbon. Where are the full carbon trials frames? Theres one,the m5. Looking at pictures the carbon lay looks good As I said it would be good to see the long term durability,but at what cost? The frames are cheap,possible medical bills from a unproven technique. Fair enough questions there buddy, I'd agree with your concerns if I hadn't come across this type of repair before. There's not been much stress analysis on the repairs, but I myself rode an ozonys curve that had very nearly snapped in half for over 8 months and thats still going strong today. I also had Steve rogers (STEVE-O) riding another pure that had cracked in the same places as nicks and I think that steves still riding that, not sure though, may well be a spare by now. So yeah, not much in the word of testing, but proof by riding sort of speaks for its self . HOPEFULLY, the bigger companies will be moving into carbon in a larger scale soon as it's definately the way trials should be going by now. The technologies, techniques and the carbon its self has improved dramatically over the last few years, so there's not much reason not to in my eyes. Cheers buddy, Josh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williams Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 haha I actually love the look of the carbon... Make's me wan't to just carbon wrap it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filo Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 I didn't mean anything when I sad stupid, hence saying to not take it the way. I am sorry i offended you. The reason I said it was because its a relatively big gamble using a process that's only new and untested. Thanks for the reply Rob. If the process works keep at it. I'm just skeptical that's all. It's good that you got 8 months our of your frame. What you're need to do is find a big hitter,say tunny,Watson and give them a repaired frame and let them go to town. If the bond/ carbon handles them monsters it would last everyone else. Personal I'm a big guy and I always seem to brakes stuff,way to much stuff. I think the longest frame I had was 1 year. I do religiously check the weld for cracks and always replace them when there's a small visible crack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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