Warning To Newbs Like Me - Disc Brakes Eat Fingertips

[Pazu]

Your REALLY serious about this?

I can fix this issue, and it wont cost you a penny.

It's simple, dont stick your fingers in there, you moron

That is quite the extrapolation, that you have repeated for the second time, but it is not so simple and you should know this. Th idea is to protect the fingers of others, particularly those of my 10YO son and his buddies, not necessarily those of myself. Is there some basis for your having faulted my attempt to better ensure these kids' safety? If there is some specific reason that you do not like the idea, then feel free to state it.

[Martin Reynolds]

That is quite the extrapolation, that you have repeated for the second time, but it is not so simple and you should know this. Th idea is to protect the fingers of others, particularly those of my 10YO son and his buddies, not necessarily those of myself. Is there some basis for your having faulted my attempt to better ensure these kids' safety? If there is some specific reason that you do not like the idea, then feel free to state it.

Its not that i'm against the idea of you to protect your son and their buddies, it just seams like complete common sence to me.

It's a sharp metal spinning disk, you shouldnt put your fingers anywhere near it.

Are you going to put Carbon Fibre protectors near any sharp objects that your kids and their friends have access to?

Are you going to wrap them in bubble wrap for the rest of their lives, rarther than explain to them the risks of life?

I don't question your reasoning behind protecting your kids, i just simply think there's better ways of doing it. You should be teaching them to fend for them selves, to teach them to see the dangers in life for them self, rather than you protect them,

[Pazu]

Its not that i'm against the idea of you to protect your son and their buddies, it just seams like complete common sence to me.

It's a sharp metal spinning disk, you shouldnt put your fingers anywhere near it.

Are you going to put Carbon Fibre protectors near any sharp objects that your kids and their friends have access to?

Are you going to wrap them in bubble wrap for the rest of their lives, rarther than explain to them the risks of life?

I don't question your reasoning behind protecting your kids, i just simply think there's better ways of doing it. You should be teaching them to fend for them selves, to teach them to see the dangers in life for them self, rather than you protect them,

I see no substance to your criticism. Something in this, indicate to you, that I do not already foster and encourage safety? Are you concluding that I am an unsafe father, based on my having made a bicycle safer?

Rest easy, thinking that kids out there may be losing fingers in your sport but far as you're concerned, it's their own damn fault. Theirs and their parents.

I follow your logic. Just one of those things that we shouldn't bother to think about, can't help a dumbass, morons are morons and brake rotors? Well, that right there is the dividing line, separating the wheat from the chaff, the 9-fingered from the 10, and the moronic from the insightful. These little dangers are useful, really, because they make it easier for the smarter of us to sort out the dim-witted. This is your implication. Got anything else?

Ever make a mistake, or have an accident? Ever bail forward and know that your bike is somewhere in the air behind you, put your arm up to stop its' hitting you, well somewhere in that dynamic, if you've got a disc brake, there is a spinning brake rotor.

We can agree to disagree as to whether this is a useful product. You are presenting behavioral conditioning-based solutions to the inherent danger of a consumer product that is engineered for human use, as a contrast to my mechanical solution to some of the inherent danger of the product. Fair enough, but I believe that my solution (shared by others' attempts no doubt) is more effective in more situations, particularly when dealing with easily distracted 10YO's. That doesn't mean that I haven't pointed out the danger to anyone and everyone that comes in the door. Kids are not working from the same mental toolkit as you and I are. Though I should speak for myself alone. I have no doubt that if this works it will make for a safer bike, and it might look cool as well, in its' final form. It will add only a few grams of weight. I should have used a kevlar/carbon fiber hybrid cloth - that is the coolest.

I think that it is fun to try to come up with ways to try to add positively to the bicycling experience. And why not. Some ideas are more necessary and practical than others. This is just another idea, but it is my idea so I'll advance it. Nothing to get personal over. It is not a social treatise on safety; it is merely a disc rotor guard.

[Martin Reynolds]

I see no substance to your criticism. Something in this, indicate to you, that I do not already foster and encourage safety? Are you concluding that I am an unsafe father, based on my having made a bicycle safer?

Rest easy, thinking that kids out there may be losing fingers in your sport but far as you're concerned, it's their own damn fault. Theirs and their parents.

I follow your logic. Just one of those things that we shouldn't bother to think about, can't help a dumbass, morons are morons and brake rotors? Well, that right there is the dividing line, separating the wheat from the chaff, the 9-fingered from the 10, and the moronic from the insightful. These little dangers are useful, really, because they make it easier for the smarter of us to sort out the dim-witted. This is your implication. Got anything else?

Ever make a mistake, or have an accident? Ever bail forward and know that your bike is somewhere in the air behind you, put your arm up to stop its' hitting you, well somewhere in that dynamic, if you've got a disc brake, there is a spinning brake rotor.

We can agree to disagree as to whether this is a useful product. You are presenting behavioral conditioning-based solutions to the inherent danger of a consumer product that is engineered for human use, as a contrast to my mechanical solution to some of the inherent danger of the product. Fair enough, but I believe that my solution (shared by others' attempts no doubt) is more effective in more situations, particularly when dealing with easily distracted 10YO's. That doesn't mean that I haven't pointed out the danger to anyone and everyone that comes in the door. Kids are not working from the same mental toolkit as you and I are. Though I should speak for myself alone. I have no doubt that if this works it will make for a safer bike, and it might look cool as well, in its' final form. It will add only a few grams of weight. I should have used a kevlar/carbon fiber hybrid cloth - that is the coolest.

I think that it is fun to try to come up with ways to try to add positively to the bicycling experience. And why not. Some ideas are more necessary and practical than others. This is just another idea, but it is my idea so I'll advance it. Nothing to get personal over. It is not a social treatise on safety; it is merely a disc rotor guard.

This makes me laugh. Nothing like not being able to cope with some constructive criticism. I'm gunna walk away from this ,cause u clearly dont have a clue.

Enjoy ur life.

[Pazu]

No big deal Mr. Reynolds, thanks for the thoughts, I meant disrespect only in jest. There are downsides to this idea, I was thinking that you were gonna mention some of them. Maybe it isn't worth bothering with, after all. It is sort of true that I am clueless, but then this is Beginners Trials Chat.

[ULtrialsguy]

Edited August 26, 2012 by ULtrialsguy

[Pazu]

It might be that you have to have kids around, or be a total newb to disc brakes, to understand wanting to manage the risk in a mechanical way rather than just warning. I've admired disc brakes for some years. It never came to mind that a rotor could take off a finger. Still, they are so awesome I had them put on the 24" that I ordered.

Spoiler Alert, not for the squeamish. Carrot Chop

[ULtrialsguy]

Personally I think anyone should be able to do what they want with their bikes and stuff in general. It's their time and money they are using so it's not going to affect anyone else. The disk protector isn't being forced on anyone so why not just let him get on and do it. If that device saves just one finger than it's time worth spent. I'm glad this thread hasn't been locked as I want to see what your finished product is like. There's plenty of people out there that invent useless stuff and this might not be one of them. Good luck and I hope nobody else hassles you.

[Pazu]

Personally I think anyone should be able to do what they want with their bikes and stuff in general. It's their time and money they are using so it's not going to affect anyone else. The disk protector isn't being forced on anyone so why not just let him get on and do it. If that device saves just one finger than it's time worth spent. I'm glad this thread hasn't been locked as I want to see what your finished product is like. There's plenty of people out there that invent useless stuff and this might not be one of them. Good luck and I hope nobody else hassles you.

Thanks man for the interest and support! You are decent. I did not mean to offend Reynolds, I should just have said thanks and left it alone, he is entitled to his opinion.

When I talked to SRAM/Avid on the phone about the idea, the guy there made a good point, which we all know - if someone were to invent the bicycle today, it would be deemed too dangerous for children to even use. Which I think is both true, and something of a cop-out. He did say that he would take the idea to the board, so who knows.

It just bothers me that something so advantageous as disc brakes, also adds an element of risk for some riders, a risk that might be avoided without much of a downside. Still working on it and open to ideas.

[isitafox]

I think you're taking this a bit too far, reading this last page I almost thought fair enough the guy wants to make a rotor guard to protect his kids, I have kids and wouldn't want them to get hurt. Then I read back a page and spotted this;

My 10 year old son rides my bike as well, of course I showed him what I had done to myself immediately when it happened, hoping that the shock factor would make him permanently aware of the danger there...

If your son is 10 and you felt that you had to show him your injury and still only "hope" he would be aware of the danger then you need to stand back and ask if he can be trusted alone with anything.

When I got my 3yr old a bike I said to him don't stick your fingers in the spokes whilst the wheels moving because it would hurt and funnily enough over a year later he hasn't had the urge to test my theory out.

Now I know your son probably wouldn't be interested in reading the manuals of things, as I know as a man I generally steer clear of them cause I already know everything there is to know about everything, but the need for brake disc rotor protectors isn't required due to this bit of genius-

As found on a shimano disc brake instruction manual

Much as there is no need for a protective cover on a kettle

[hypermobilty]

i personally think its a good idea

a freind of mine took off the tip of his finger back in high school doing the exact same thing

now if it could be a clip on device that you only fit when needed i think that would be better than a permanent one

i have a couple of ideas about this my self i may have a little play with this myself

[Pazu]

I think you're taking this a bit too far, reading this last page I almost thought fair enough the guy wants to make a rotor guard to protect his kids, I have kids and wouldn't want them to get hurt. Then I read back a page and spotted this;

If your son is 10 and you felt that you had to show him your injury and still only "hope" he would be aware of the danger then you need to stand back and ask if he can be trusted alone with anything.

When I got my 3yr old a bike I said to him don't stick your fingers in the spokes whilst the wheels moving because it would hurt and funnily enough over a year later he hasn't had the urge to test my theory out.

Now I know your son probably wouldn't be interested in reading the manuals of things, as I know as a man I generally steer clear of them cause I already know everything there is to know about everything, but the need for brake disc rotor protectors isn't required due to this bit of genius-

As found on a shimano disc brake instruction manual

Much as there is no need for a protective cover on a kettle

It's proven that I've taken it too far for some. My son is excellent at chess and currently teaching me how to play "Axis & Allies." However mentally acute a child may be, at 10YO his reasoning skills are still in development and he is still subject to distraction. This guard is about kids, but it is also about anyone else who might encounter a spinning bike disk rotor. It is mostly about not having to explain away to stupidity or Darwinian evolution, some good person's having lost a fingertip.

Thank you for your thoughts.

i personally think its a good idea

a freind of mine took off the tip of his finger back in high school doing the exact same thing

now if it could be a clip on device that you only fit when needed i think that would be better than a permanent one

i have a couple of ideas about this my self i may have a little play with this myself

Hey, like that clip on idea, love to hear your thoughts on it but it's a tough crowd

[hypermobilty]

tough crowd is a bit of an under statement lol

heres a quick one that jut poped into my head now lets see if i can word it out properly its cheap and simple

cut 2 semi circles out of a fine gauze mesh so that they just cover the rotor arms and just fix them with a few dabs of double sided sticky tape on the out side edge of the rotor arms

a bit crude i know but very cheap and simple

just be careful not to contaminate the braking surface with the sticky tape

just a quick idea that came to mind whilst reading lol

[danrobinson]

i think the clip on idea is good, just put them on when working on your brakes and take them back off when you are finished.

job done, i would buy them

as the saying goes "better to be safe, than sorry"

and i know that people say "just dont put your fingers in it"

but say you were working on your brakes and your mum/dad/son ect. and you turn around and woops lost your finger

[hypermobilty]

when i get payed next week ill start making some up well ill give it a go

i could make some simple tie on ones simple enough

[isitafox]

It's proven that I've taken it too far for some. My son is excellent at chess and currently teaching me how to play "Axis & Allies." However mentally acute a child may be, at 10YO his reasoning skills are still in development and he is still subject to distraction. This guard is about kids, but it is also about anyone else who might encounter a spinning bike disk rotor. It is mostly about not having to explain away to stupidity or Darwinian evolution, some good person's having lost a fingertip.

Thank you for your thoughts.

I'd like to add that I meant no hostility with my comment, just my general point of view on the matter. Not sure if you got that when you replied, I've highlighted the parts that I understood!

[Pazu]

I'd like to add that I meant no hostility with my comment, just my general point of view on the matter. Not sure if you got that when you replied, I've highlighted the parts that I understood!

Okay that's cool, I'm not clear on whether I ought to clarify or not, but I appreciate your not meaning to be hostile, I certainly don't mean to be hostile. And I've been called a moron 2 or 3 times here, for trying to close the gap on a brake rotor.

A 10 YO is not generally considered to be competent to adult understandings due to his brains not having fully developed, I guess that was my point.

Anyhow I appreciate the points that have been made about the overabundance of caution, and labels to protect the commonsense-challenged, but I still think that this is an issue worth addressing.

[isitafox]

What you need is a piece of thin alumium or similar machining so the outer edge is just shy of the braking surface with a 6 bolt mounting. Then simply use longer bolts to fix the disc and the protector to the hub.

[Luke Rainbird]

Or just a revolutionary new rotor design

[isitafox]

I bet Hope would machine a solid rotor for someone on request

[Martin Reynolds]

Or just a revolutionary new rotor design

Was just thinking that. But at the end of the day, it still doesn't protect you from the edge of the rotor:

http://www.trials-forum.co.uk/topic/163521-not-a-riding-picture-an-after-riding-picture/

[Pazu]

This is all good. The edge of the rotor, that is a tough one. Horrid pic but thanks for posting. The Avid guy said that they try to bevel the edges of their rotors, but my rotors are Avid and they don't seem very beveled to me.

Making a rotor perfectly safe isn't what I'm trying to do though that would be a noble undertaking. Fox, by the way is that stuffed animal fox supposed to be the StarFox video game character, anyhow isitafox, I thought of the standardized bolt pattern and just adapting to that, but the torque spec is serious on those, and longer bolts and adding material to the join, would probably require some re-engineering. I'm pulling my rotors off in the next couple of days since I've got a torque wrench to bolt them back on. I might try something like that at that point. I like the idea of the solid connection to the rest of the assembly, but to achieve that it would be heavier.

What some manufacturer needs to do, is mill a thin countersunk slot to the inside of the openings, fuse some lightweight temperature resistant plastic material to the inside of those openings and put this issue to bed before somebody puts it to bed for them, IMHO. They are the ones who can solve the engineering issues and the product liability issues. It doesn't have to look shoddy and who knows, it could help with heat dissipation or rotor strength so they could market it from other angles, perhaps not at all from the safety angle. Solve the safety problem as a side-issue. It would take away from profit a bit, or they would have to make them more expensive, but if they give consumers a choice, then maybe nobody such as myself could whine about the exposed rotors. They could say, if you don't like the exposed part, you should buy the filled in ones.

As far as an aftermarket product is concerned, what makes the most sense to me are thin, stiff, sticky-back adhesive discs in standard sizes that will just adhere to the outside of the rotor such as in my example. THIS is what the woman buying her son a bicycle is going to go for when the lbs guy suggests it. They would fly off the shelves and probably work okay, too. Bike shop makes a few bucks cleaning the rotor and sticking them on, everybody is happy... Nothing wrong with that.

[isitafox]

Fox, by the way is that stuffed animal fox supposed to be the StarFox video game character, anyhow isitafox, I thought of the standardized bolt pattern and just adapting to that, but the torque spec is serious on those, and longer bolts and adding material to the join, would probably require some re-engineering.

Firstly, no it is a childrens tv character called Basil Brush.

Secondly, longer bolts is an easy task. You can pick up some bolts from any half decent hardware store or engineering firm, not sure what you mean by adding material to the join though???

[danrobinson]

Okay that's cool, I'm not clear on whether I ought to clarify or not, but I appreciate your not meaning to be hostile, I certainly don't mean to be hostile. And I've been called a moron 2 or 3 times here, for trying to close the gap on a brake rotor.

A 10 YO is not generally considered to be competent to adult understandings due to his brains not having fully developed, I guess that was my point.

Anyhow I appreciate the points that have been made about the overabundance of caution, and labels to protect the commonsense-challenged, but I still think that this is an issue worth addressing.

its not something that needs addressing, its just a safety precaution

[dngr2self]

I can see the point about rotors being potentially dangerous, but so are drop offs, gaps and other trials obstacles.