Nhs Privatisation

[PaRtZ]

"Hello, Im dying. I was wondering if you could help"

"Ahhh Im sorry to hear that! Do you have lots of money?"

"Err no I don't"

"Oh crumbs! You better start the funeral arrangements then. Bye bye!"

I only read the first part of the thread, but thats my understanding thus far (and very simplified) People have always whinged about the NHS for whinging sake, but if thats ^^ the alternative I dont see how they can. Also, apart from the new owners, who will benefit from owning the NHS? IE why do the tories want to sell it?

[1a2bcio8]

JD, you need to actually read the articles both within and beyond this thread about what is happening to the NHS. The arguments are compelling and express the opinions of most people working within the NHS and various professional bodies which have assessed the nature of these changes. There are lots of hard facts that I don't have the time to bring here but you can easily find. In addition, the way in which these changes have been brought about is extremely telling. Clandestine efforts from people in power who have already or will further gain from the changes. I don't know how you can't be suspicious? It seems so obvious to me that, like so much else in the world relating to money (environment, slave labour, war, etc.), something is going on here. The standard model of business is frequently one of exploitation.

As it stands, as far as I can tell, you're assuming everything with be alright on some sort of ideal about business. But it is being made lawful to change the way in which people are treated wherein some people will not receive the same quality of care and potentially no care. How do you sue when the law is such? Furthermore, how do you take on big business when its funds are massive and for that very reason you might need to take legal action (you're poor) you won't be placed to do it. As I previously wrote, the removal of laws to protect whistle blowers and remove decision making from the public purview are designed to reduce accountability. The clear trend is not an interest in care but in something else. It seems very obvious that it's about profit.

Taking a moment to see the various cuts that have occurred to the welfare state seriously affecting the most vulnerable people (the disabled, single mums, etc.) shows us that our government is not concerned with compassion and doing the right thing. A very insidious state of affairs is staring you in the face if you take the time to really consider beyond some presumptive ideal you're holding onto.

American health care is an adequate example of the failure of private sector involvement. The fact that most people in America want a nationalised health care system is also indicative. America possesses one of the worst, if not the worst, health care systems in the developed world.

Edited August 7, 2012 by Ben Rowlands

[JD™]

I apologise if my apparent inability to not hit the reply button makes me seem like I actually really care about the opinions I've expressed here. I guess I've just been filling the box once I've hit reply with whatever is in my head. The truth is, I'm going to be as apathetic to it as I am to most things that don't affect my life day to day. Clearly, when thought about, that's the 'wrong' way to be but it's the only way that allows me to get on with thinking about the things I need to think about every day - my ability to concentrate on anything for any period of time is pretty much non existant so wasting any of that time on making myself care about something I naturally don't seem to is not high on my todo list. I shouldn't really have got involved!

I will definitely read those articles like I said I would. In fact, they're going on my todo list for this week so that when we end up in Bristol in a couple of weeks I'll be a bit more educated, and able to better respect your point of view, for our inevitable extension of this thread!

[1a2bcio8]

If you read any, just read the last one I posted. It's a short summary of some of what's happening. It'd take you 5 mins or less to read.

[Mark W]

...people are used to its piss poor service and still paying out of the arse for it.

When my brother fell off in Newport skatepark and shattered his femoral artery, he almost bled to death. He had to have a total of 11 hours of emergency surgery and had around 10 pints of blood in that time. He didn't then have to pay for that. When I went to them when I thought I'd f**ked my hand they X-rayed me and found no break and I was free to go without then owing them loads of money. Although we're all paying towards the NHS, it's a manageable amount spread over a substantial period of time between a large amount of people - it isn't a sudden bill for tens of thousands (if not more) of £s just after you muller yourself. Theoretically we could all have insurance, but then again if you look at the system in America it becomes patently clear that there are plenty of people who fall through the cracks of their health care coverage - these people can't fall through those cracks in the (now old) NHS system. Although it's not the best standard of care across the board, it's still freely accessible care that people can and will need.

But yeah, like Ben said, check out that last article!

I'd also say that it's not always the first port of call for people who might be able to think of a plan of action to know - if you look at things like the Occupy Movement that was a reaction to something rather than pre-empting something. That's essentially the same thing here. But yeah, it's mainly about raising awareness. Even if it's just in terms of how people vote in the next election it's still something. Being able to pass acts like that and admitting you lied in the previous elections to get yourself in a position to do that but having that not being reported by the media of the country you're running is dick.

[JT!]

When my brother fell off in Newport skatepark and shattered his femoral artery, he almost bled to death. He had to have a total of 11 hours of emergency surgery and had around 10 pints of blood in that time. He didn't then have to pay for that. When I went to them when I thought I'd f**ked my hand they X-rayed me and found no break and I was free to go without then owing them loads of money. Although we're all paying towards the NHS, it's a manageable amount spread over a substantial period of time between a large amount of people - it isn't a sudden bill for tens of thousands (if not more) of £s just after you muller yourself. Theoretically we could all have insurance, but then again if you look at the system in America it becomes patently clear that there are plenty of people who fall through the cracks of their health care coverage - these people can't fall through those cracks in the (now old) NHS system. Although it's not the best standard of care across the board, it's still freely accessible care that people can and will need.

...if this happened in the USA.

Considering you have no insurance Mark would have had a bill of about $600 if he went to urgent care, maybe more if it was outside of urgent care hours and had to go to the emergency room. But realistically he probably wouldn't have even gone knowing he'd have to pay for it, which is what happens a lot here and then that can lead to more problems if it was indeed broken. His brother would have bills well into hundreds of thousands of dollars. He would then have to pay large sums of money every month probably for many decades and would be financially screwed for a long time. Or declare bankruptcy... which ultimately means the taxpayers are going to be covering his bills anyway. 3rd option is go to jail for not paying your medical bills.

If they both had insurance that wasn't state/federally funded for low income people (in that case generally 100% is covered) they would still have to pay co-pays, deductibles etc etc. So even WITH insurance Mark would still have to pay anywhere between the full amount (if it was his first time using his insurance that year etc) or at least $100 towards the bill. The chances are his brother would still be left with a crazy bill even with insurance, possibly up to 4 figures, but that could vary depending on the quality of his health insurance.

f**k that. I'd rather pay more taxes so everyone can have it free.

[anzo]

So far having minor pain in my left hip, both shoulders, all my fingers, ankles, toes and knees

...and eyes, and ears, and mouth, and nose.

[Simpson]

Sorry I haven't read the entire thread but my over simplistic opinion is this.

Why the f**k would you risk hundreds of millions of pounds taking over the NHS to be non-profit..... it makes no sense.

I don't think it can be a good idea anyway you look at it.

[casualjoe]

After last night I like our NHS even more, but have noticed that they need to fill out so many forms just to to the most simple things! These guys are trained paramedics and doctors and it seems they aren't allowed to just use their common sense to get the job done, "too much red tape" the doctor said as it took over an hour to perform a 5 minute patch up