The Car Thread

[ManxTrialSpaz]

Injector seals are £500?!?!?

After reading this as "Ejector Seats" - the above post was rather boring.

[RobinJI]

I've always been put off BMW's by their pathetically sized boots for an estate. Even A4's aren't great, but not as bad, I'd go for a Passat over an A4 purely for that reason, although I can how people prefer the A4's looks. Depending on how easily embarrassed you are, a Rover 75 might be worth a look, it's basically German.

Edit, Just to clarify, the 'BMW's I'm talking about are the 3 series, 5 series boots are huge. an E34/E39 525tds might be worth a look, but they're a lot thirstier than the Audi/Rover/VW equivalents. 1.9tdi A6's seem to go for sensible money too.

Edited July 4, 2012 by RobinJI

[Dan6061]

Yeah, the boot in my A4 estate isn't all that to be honest. Still got 4 bikes and 4 people in the car at a squeeze though... With the back seats down there's plenty of room!

Keep in mind that mine is the B5 platform, which is a few behind the current model's if that's what you're looking for? Not sure how different in size the new ones are!

Just get an old Volvo estate.

[CurtisRider]

The seals are cheap, it's the fitting that's not as you have to disassemble the cylinder head to do so and a special tool is required to keep the timing chain in place which most garages don't have as its specific to the 2.2 diesel. I would attempt it myself but I can't do a great deal of work to my car as I'm recovering from a back operation.

An a6 would definitely be fine robin, I will try my best to avoid a b5 passat unless something really good comes up as I think they are pretty foul looking but beggers can't be choosers. A saloon will be ok as long as it has folding seats, but unfortunately most German saloons don't seem to have them! it was an expensive optional extra on the 3 series and a4 iirc. The 1.9tdi engines do seem to be the ones to go for, I'm going to try and convince my parents to sell me their b6 a4...I know that's a solid car

Are Volvo diesels actually any good? I seem to remember them being sooty ford lumps? I do like the v40s!

[Revolver]

That's balls, even moreso than the seals being expensive.

It's reassuring for me though, I might need to replace some injector seals on my car.

In my car news, I swapped all the injectors over. I also cut one of the wires on the wiring loom by accident so I can't test it until I fix that.

I'm expecting at the very least for the issue on injector 2 to move, but hopefully both of them will move.

[Tom Booth]

Too scene??

I think so.

[Matthew_Gibson]

but im sure swift cover do it all online

[CurtisRider]

Well thank fook for that... Found my old android phone, loaded up torque and plugged in my Bluetooth obd dongle. 5 codes came up, noted them down, then cleared them. Car started first time...

P0342 power train camshaft position sensor 'a' circuit low input (bank 1 or single sensor)

P0102 power train mass or volume air flow circuit low input

P0017 power train unknown

P0246 power train turbo/supercharger wastegate solenoid 'a' high

P1380 power train misfire detected

Now to figure out what went wrong and how to fix it. The low voltage things were prob down to the battery getting low from cranking it over lots and the battery getting a little too low. Still going to keep my eyes peeled for a new car, this was pretty much the last straw for the old thing.

[RobinJI]

The seals are cheap, it's the fitting that's not as you have to disassemble the cylinder head to do so and a special tool is required to keep the timing chain in place which most garages don't have as its specific to the 2.2 diesel. I would attempt it myself but I can't do a great deal of work to my car as I'm recovering from a back operation.

An a6 would definitely be fine robin, I will try my best to avoid a b5 passat unless something really good comes up as I think they are pretty foul looking but beggers can't be choosers. A saloon will be ok as long as it has folding seats, but unfortunately most German saloons don't seem to have them! it was an expensive optional extra on the 3 series and a4 iirc. The 1.9tdi engines do seem to be the ones to go for, I'm going to try and convince my parents to sell me their b6 a4...I know that's a solid car

Are Volvo diesels actually any good? I seem to remember them being sooty ford lumps? I do like the v40s!

Pretty sure all B5 Passat saloons had folding rear seats, I'm yet to see one that doesn't anyway. In B5 form there's a BIG difference in boot size between the Passat and A4, partly the squarer shape, and partly that the rear suspension's different which means the Passat has much smaller shock towers, so the boots a lot squarer. I remember being really quite disappointed comparing my old A4 to a mates Passat with the boots open and empty. Like I say though, I can understand if you're not keen on the looks. Personally I quite like B5 Passats, but much prefer the pre-facelift models, in terms of looks and build quality.

Not sure about the newer ones, but I know the 850's used a 5 cylinder 2.4? VW diesel (higher power version of the LT van engine).

Edited July 4, 2012 by RobinJI

[dann2707]

Hahaha blow off dog.

[Pashley26]

I just started off an interesting debate on another forum, I'd be interested in the views you guys have on this one.

Somebody told me that my car was cheap and that I got a great deal, I told him that his car was expensive due to demand and that actually I paid spot on money for my car.

The way I see it is;

The used car market is directly controlled by us as used vehicle buyers, our demand is reflected in the prices of certain used vehicles and the higher the demand the higher the prices.

I paid £1000 for my 1 owner from new, full service history 2001 Clio 172 and then spent £200 remapping it which made it have more power and more torque than a Clio 182. (The Clio 172 and Clio 182 are IDENTICAL cars, just produced two years apart and one having a supposed 10bhp more from the factory...that was actually more like 4bhp)

A guy off Clio Sport recently purchased his car which is identical in every way (even down to the same miles) however his car is a "182" and is three years newer. What would you expect the price difference between the two cars to be? £500? £750? £1000 even?

No, he paid £3700 for his Clio 182. Almost 4x as much as I did for mine. And his car is considered "cheap" by other people on Clio Sport?

I put it to Clio Sport that as the largest "Clio" forum in the world if the perceived public value of a Clio 182 was a realistic figure then it would bring the price of 182's down. If every £4000 Clio 182 that was listed on there was offered £3000 it wouldn't be long before people were putting them up for £3500, slowly bringing down the price of the used car market until the figures reached a point where you weren't paying an over inflated price for something not deserving of it's price tag. Also more importantly, it works in an opposite way. If EVERYBODY on Clio Sport put the price of their 172's up by £750 doubtlessly the use car prices would improve, adding desirability to their "cheap" 172's.

Long and short of it is, who agrees that what I have said is true? Not necessarily a good thing, but true.

[RobinJI]

You're not actually saying anything much in that statement. You're basically saying your car was cheaper because there's less demand, and his was more expensive because there's more demand? So surely they were both their correct price in their own respective market? You'rs sounds much better value for money, but that's not the same thing as being a good deal.

[Pashley26]

My point is though that why should you pay more for a car like a 182? It isn't actually any better, even standard. The high price is only there because of a misguided public perception of the vehicles worth.

If everybody knew that a 182 was actually no better than a 172 then nobody would pay the extra money, and 182's would drop to a point where people could justify the price difference.

Probably not explained that very well to be fair lol

Let me try again, you guys know how shit I am at getting stuff like this across.

The two cars are pretty much the same, and my point isn't about a performance comparison, or how great a deal my car might seem. Simply that the 182 is an unjustified price hike by a fair amount and that if everybody offered low on the more expensive car then eventually the prices would drop?

Edited July 5, 2012 by Pashley26

[Tom Booth]

Jardo, just the man...

Honest an truthful weak points of the new 500's? Missus wants to swap her loathfull smart car for one an after speaking to a few people I just wanna know if there's any weakpoints showing in them yet (other then the badge...)

Whatever you say won't particularly make any difference in her buying one, just want to be aware if there's anything to be aware of an be as honest as you can..

From what she can find an has read seat stitching seems to have been a problem for a few, but not too bad..

[Pashley26]

Seat stitching if you go for a Lounge model, and gearboxes if you go for a twin air.

My honest opinion? They are excellent, very very very good little cars. They are fun to drive, amazingly cheap and if you are buying them new as an example with a £500 deposit I'd be able to do £1850 off the list price and a £500 deposit contribution which would make it £129 a month. Win IMO.

[manuel]

The high price is only there because of a misguided public perception of the vehicles worth.

no. Things are worth what people are willing to pay for them. If you think the car is no better than yours for nearly 3k less then you are happy. But nobody else is going to give a shit.

However, The fact that people are buying shity french hatchbacks to go fast in at all amazes me.

[Pashley26]

However, The fact that people are buying shity french hatchbacks to go fast in at all amazes me.

Say what? Way to make yourself look like a raging fanny.

You know a Renault Clio cup car can lap most UK circuits as fast as a Porsche GT2 cup car?

I've noticed a couple of shitty snobby car comments from you about smaller hatchbacks, not just about my car but to other peoples posts too. What's the issue with "shity French hatchbacks"?

*edit* Also, who said anything about going fast in them?

Edited July 5, 2012 by Pashley26

[Tomm]

You know a Renault Clio cup car can lap most UK circuits as fast as a Porsche GT2 cup car?

Say what? Way to make yourself look like a raging fanny.

Now I know that the Clio is supposed to be a nice car to drive and nippy, but come on. In the right hands a Gt2 would rinse even a heavily-modified Clio out.

This week I've decided I want a mustang. Not a lhd one though, so it's tricky/impossible

[Pashley26]

Now I know that the Clio is supposed to be a nice car to drive and nippy, but come on. In the right hands a Gt2 would rinse even a heavily-modified Clio out.

This week I've decided I want a mustang. Not a lhd one though, so it's tricky/impossible

Clio Cup car =

Edited July 5, 2012 by Pashley26

[Tom Booth]

That all you know of jardo? Not too fussed about deposits etc as she's buying second hand.

Cheers dude, she's after a well spec'd pop, then drop sport wheels on there.

[Pashley26]

That all you know of jardo? Not too fussed about deposits etc as she's buying second hand.

Cheers dude, she's after a well spec'd pop, then drop sport wheels on there.

1.2, Twinair or diesel?

The only thing I would say is that if you are going for a Pop make sure it has the Blue & Me upgrade, because it is SO good.

[Tom Booth]

1.2, just wants something nice an simple.

Cheers dude, much appreciated.

[RobinJI]

My point is though that why should you pay more for a car like a 182? It isn't actually any better, even standard. The high price is only there because of a misguided public perception of the vehicles worth.

If everybody knew that a 182 was actually no better than a 172 then nobody would pay the extra money, and 182's would drop to a point where people could justify the price difference.

Probably not explained that very well to be fair lol

Let me try again, you guys know how shit I am at getting stuff like this across.

The two cars are pretty much the same, and my point isn't about a performance comparison, or how great a deal my car might seem. Simply that the 182 is an unjustified price hike by a fair amount and that if everybody offered low on the more expensive car then eventually the prices would drop?

They are worth that, because you can sell them for that much. If you can sell it on for what you bought it for, you bought it for a good price, regardless of any comparison of value. Value for money, and market value are 2 completely different things (as you well know). I completely agree that small spec changes can result in disproportionate changes in price, but hey, that's just the world we live in, people get hung up on having the 'best'. Hell, my mini should obliterate any Mini cooper works car in every respect other than boot space, but it's never going to be worth even a fraction of what they go for!

[Greetings]

I just started off an interesting debate on another forum, I'd be interested in the views you guys have on this one.

Perhaps I'm missing the point but the value of something is determined by how much someone is willing to pay for it, not by how indifferent it is to something a lot cheaper. If that's the price, then clearly the 182 represents a higher value in the eyes of past/future/present owners than the 172.

Short update on the M3, I hear it's leaving the workshop tomorrow. I don't believe it one bit but they are going to try and get it out. Also had to buy carbon fibre door trim since nothing else fits the roll cage, feel very unhappy about it. Carbon fibre is one of the most gay materials on earth unless used as a structural element. I absolutely hate it and I hate everyone who uses it as a finish, be it foil or real, and feels proud about it. You're essentially paying about 3 money (which is a lot) for a stupid pattern that doesn't fit anything. I was recently looking at some S8 V10's and those have carbon finish inside. Carbon fibre in a 2 tonne barge? As if it's going to make the car lighter... Ok rant is over, time for a city picture:

[RobinJI]

You're not going to like my mini much then , I'm planning a carbon front splitter, front and rear wheel arches, roof , diffuser and rear doors, plus any mounting brackets I can use it for. It'll all be for weight saving, not just for looks (target weights ~650kg), but I like the idea of leaving it exposed for all to see. I do hate it when people just leave random panels like bonnets or boots exposed, where the colour change really doesn't fit the lines of the car (EG civic is a prime example). I'll only be using it on additional/bolt on bits, and the roof which is common to be a different colour on minis. The rear doors will be exposed internally but painted externally. Personally I think it'll look quite nice against shiny old English white paint, should give a nice contrast between light/dark and retro/modern.