The Car Thread

[Tomm]

I'm a complete financephobe, so when it comes to buying a car I'll probably end up with a 15 year old Micra to keep running costs down.

That's nothing to do with being a finance-phobe though. That's just wanting to spend as little money as possible on a car, which is fine. If you have the cash in the bank for a (new) car, it's still not always sensible to buy it outright. Often a lease / PCP deal will cost you less in depreciation, plus it'll free up your money to do whatever you want with it - invest it etc (in my case save it for a house deposit).

A lot of people seem to have an anti-finance view without really looking into it.

[haydon_peter]

March is the start of the new registration plates so that is probably why Jardo seems to have sold a lot of new cars, I believe it is the tougher/slower of the two registration periods though (Due to being after Christmas etc...)

[Pashley26]

What Tic says basically. Uses cars are dire right now. The page has shifted and I'm on my phone so give me a second to go back and reply properly.

[Muel]

That's nothing to do with being a finance-phobe though. That's just wanting to spend as little money as possible on a car, which is fine. If you have the cash in the bank for a (new) car, it's still not always sensible to buy it outright. Often a lease / PCP deal will cost you less in depreciation, plus it'll free up your money to do whatever you want with it - invest it etc (in my case save it for a house deposit).

A lot of people seem to have an anti-finance view without really looking into it.

My view is that stuff goes wrong though, so I like to keep my fixed outgoings as low as possible. I'd never buy a new car outright though, it seems insane to me to spend £20k on something that in 3 years will be worth £7k.

Suppose it just depends on whether you want a new car or not? I can see the logic behind PCP over buying outright, but the idea of paying £20k in any form to move about on the planet just doesn't suit me I think.

As an example though (Jardo help?), if I bought a second hand car for £7K on some form of finance over a 3 year period, how much would my monthly payments be? (I'd prefer to just buy it outright, but it might not be an option).

[AdamR28]

A lot of people seem to have an anti-finance view without really looking into it.

I'm one of those people. I don't understand how it could save money overall - the finance companies wouldn't be in business otherwise?! - unless you are heavily involved in investing any spare cash you have and getting a big return, which is greater than the fees for the finance.

I also am of the loose opinion that borrowing is what's f**ked the world over (granted there are times when it's necessary and can be 'done properly'), but the amount of greedy credit companies and spackers willing to take them up on their ridiculous offers knowing full well they can't pay them back has made a mess. Oh and governments, how can a country rack up 1.15 trillion pounds of debt? Ridiculous.

[Pashley26]

Thanks Jardo. I don't want a new car - I've got my eye on a car that's no longer in production (e86 Z4 coupe ). With any luck, though, it should be something that depreciates less than (E.g.) a standard Golf because they're rare (ish) and sought after. So in 2 years time I'm sure it'll be worth more than a Golf I could get for the same money now. Now obviously that wouldn't factor into any HP agreement but the GFV ought to be higher, so the monthly repayments might be less on a PCP deal? But equally if I went for a HP deal, at 2-3 years in I might expect to have some equity in the car? Re warranty - obviously it'll be out of warranty. Is that a problem particularly? What happens if the car blows up half way through (or even right at the end of) a PCP deal - who foots the bill? I'm just failing to see the real difference between PCP (over 2.5 years) and HP (over 5 years). Both allow you to change cars easily at 2.5 years. I suppose PCP is more predictable which some people like, but that's about it?Also - help a brother out. What's the car industry like at the moment? I'm imagining this month / quarter has been pretty terrible for the sale of cars? I'm hoping that I can use this as leverage... But your 41 cars this month seems like a lot?

In short you have been very lucky to be in positive equity. Did you put in a reasonable sized deposit at the start?

Ususally vehicles depreciate at a higher rate than their finance is paid off.

If you had an over lapping period of the next two years of your finance where the vehicle is currently worth say £6000 now and you owe £5000, it makes no difference to pay £208 a month for 24 months and then trade the car in for £5000; because you have paid that £5000 over the last two years.

In short, if you are in equity now with two years left then get rid whilst the deal is good.

This is usually the reason why I sell PCP over HP; people ususally pay the extra two years of payments and then get it back when they trade in. So you are spending out to cash back in at a later date; that money is better kept in your bank or tied up in a car.

Usually it doesn't work that way.

BMW Z4's depreciate terribly from a trade in perspective, they are a large risk for the dealer as they are an expensive to buy, run, service and insure vehicle. They don't sell too well, private however they hold their value well and command a good £2000 price hike over a trade in. Properly nice cars though. I should think the dealer is very keen to get out of that car, ask to see the log book and have a HPI done in the vehicle to work out when it was purchased. Feel free to email me the reg and I will HPI it for you.

I wouldn't recommend a PCP deal on a used car of that value on type; if you do take a PCP deal have it as a security with the mindset of buying the car or handing it back at the end. Unless you put in a very small deposit and pay more monthly the chance of an easy renewal is slim.

What's the reg number, age, mileage and cost of the car? I can do you a quote through Santander as a better example.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Pashley26

[Tomm]

I've PM'd you all the necessaries. Cheers J Dog.

[AdamR28]

See, Jardo is nice really

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

If you have the cash in the bank for a (new) car, it's still not always sensible to buy it outright.

To be fair though it's never sensible to buy a new car full stop... Is the benefit of having a 'new car smell' for a month worth losing 20% of the cars worth the second you drive it off the forecourt? Unless I was stinking rich (Tomm- I'm surprised you're not looking at private helicopters rather than a Z4!) I don't think I could bring myself to buy a proper new car.

For the record, I'm also a finance-phobe. I've been brought up to pay off credit cards at the end of the month and save up to buy anything. Only ever paid cash for cars and bikes etc. and apart from the mandatory student loan and mortgage have never entered into any finance agreement.

[Tomm]

I'm not really sure why mortgages and student loans come into a separate category? Like you, I don't especially like debt, and I always pay off credit cards at the end of the month.

Cars in general are a stupid way to invest money. They cost loads to buy/service/tax/fuel and their value only goes down. On the other hand I think cars are a really good way to enjoy money. They're fun, and there's only one person who can put a price on that.

Funnily enough I was talking to a guy the other day who flies helicopters. He reckoned it wasn't as expensive as you might think - he used to have an expensive car habit and now he just drives one car but does weekends away in a helicopter several times a year. Legend.

[AdamR28]

I'm not really sure why mortgages and student loans come into a separate category?

Same - but they do for me as well I guess they are kind of 'automatic'. You haven't the earning capacity at that age to pay for your own uni course, and it's very rare you'll get funding together to buy a house outright.

Definitely agree that cars aren't an investment, they are enjoyment tools and I daren't (is that a word?) calculate a £ / mile or minute cost...

[Luke Rainbird]

Student loans are a tad different to cars in the way you borrow/pay back though. With a student loan, you pay back dependent on what you earn rather than what you owe so if you ever find yourself in serious financial difficulty the repayments cease.

I'd love to be able to rock up and buy a house in cold hard cash though

[manuel]

Mortgages are also different as you can write most of it off as rent ? Then it's just a saving scheme.

[AdamR28]

I like that excuse nice one!

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

I'm not really sure why mortgages and student loans come into a separate category?

Really? A car is for many a necessity but a reliable car that'll last for years can be bought for a couple of thousand. Even if you can theoretically afford it there's no benefit to buying a £20k car on finance when you could probably get the same model but 5 years old for £4k. That's clearly not possible with a house and unlike with a car you can't get the same thing for £10k as you could for £200k. Even then finding £10k isn't easy for everyone. Student loans I can see- if I hadn't been so lazy and got a job I could've maybe scraped by at uni but I would still have to have been subbed by my parents. These days if you want to go to uni you have to end up in debt pretty much so again it's unavoidable...

[LiamWood!]

Thinking of selling my 1.4 civic and buying this instead and installing my forged b16 into it and keeping the original one spare.

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/viewitem?itemId=281083766266&index=0&nav=WATCHING&nid=51092028121

[Tomm]

Really? A car is for many a necessity but a reliable car that'll last for years can be bought for a couple of thousand. Even if you can theoretically afford it there's no benefit to buying a £20k car on finance when you could probably get the same model but 5 years old for £4k.

We could all get by living in a 2 bed shoebox-sized studio flat in the red light district that's worth £25k or less. Pay off the mortgage in a couple of years? That would be good yeah? At least until we had saved enough to pay for a nice house outright?

I'm being facetious, I know, but I Think your argument is partly dogmatic, not logical.

Also don't write off new cars as the cost of ownership is typically reasonable overall with warranty etc. The cost of ownership differential isn't as great as you might imagine. The only 'cheap' way to run a car is to buy a shitter for a grand or less and run it until it falls apart and move on. But you're forever running rubbish unreliable cars. And anyway I'm not buying a new car.

[AdamR28]

The only 'cheap' way to run a car is to buy a shitter for a grand or less and run it until it falls apart and move on. But you're forever running rubbish unreliable cars.

*enter MX-5 preaching here*

[MadManMike]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Much has passed since I last read, were we talking about arb's for leons?

40mm or more will rub. most noticable on full lock in reverse. jardo's car did rub when first done, it's probably worn away half the arb / shaft now so gone silent. pikey.

TT/LCR/S3/R32 arb's will fit, the first 3 being 19mm typically, the the R32 being 23mm. They'll go under the shaft and bolt to the stock drop links using some spacers and longer bolts. Can either make a spacer, or use washers, or two additional nuts works as well.

bars typically sell for £40. by far the cheapest solution.

Awesome, thanks for confirming mate

Cheers to all for the help, I'll trawl the webs and find the cheapest I can then.

EDIT: I'm special.

Edited March 27, 2013 by MadManMike

[CurtisRider]

When I start my car I get a squeal from my aux belt. It was replaced about 25k ago along with the tensioner and steering pump. I'm wondering if my alternator pulley has started to seize as it makes a squeak when I turn the engine off too. Anybody got any bright ideas of how to find out? I guess I could change the belt to see if that fixes the noise (could be glazed?)

[LiamWood!]

Spray wd40 onto them, if the noises goes away for a little bit. You know it's the belt.

[Greetings]

Haha, this country still has a lot to learn. A local business tycoon (who I think owns a Porsche dealership) had two Porsches covered in police vinyls at the shop where I built my M3 and then had them driven around town for a bit. The result is pure comedy, the internet is full of outraged idiots who believe public money was spent on police Porsches despite the number plates being standard public ones (police are completely different). There are even people who claim to have been stopped by one of them on the motorway today :bow: The media are none the wiser. Whoever came up with this idea is a genius, probably no more than 1 grand was spent on wrapping them but it's already gone viral and there are massive debates everywhere about whether they are real or not.

[LukasMcNeal]

Isn't that quite illegal imitating a police car?

[Luke Rainbird]

For those of you looking into the possibility of Cupras at the mo;

Late pre-facelift with updated starfish alloys, leather etc. Advertised at £2k with full Seat service history, 84k, recent cambelt and pump etc. For the sake of picking up some new bumpers, certainly not a bad way of going about things.

http://www.edition38.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=490530

[Luke Rainbird]

So these just turned up:



Should be fitting them on Sunday with Jardo & Phil Mil